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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-18-2019, 9:31 AM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
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Default AOW Reformation-Style AR Pistol

I posted about this on the CA7 but didn't want to threadjack it further. Is there any reason an AR with a short (say 10.5") barrel that has straight lands-and-grooves, instead of rifling, wouldn't be legal in California with a fixed magazine as long as you went through the AOW process with the ATF?

For what it's worth, this could have not only a brace, but it could have a stock--there's no prohibition on having a stock on a pistol; it's just that usually having a stock on a pistol turns it into a short-barreled rifle. That wouldn't happen here since the barrel is not rifled.

Federal classification: AOW
State classification: NOT a rifle, NOT a short barreled rifle (because it does not have a rifled barrel and a rifle must have a rifled barrel), but it is a pistol despite having a stock, and therefore subject to the assault weapon regulations for pistols. Therefore, it must be fixed mag. Exempt from the prohibition on "unconventional pistols" because of it is a federally authorized AOW (see PC 17710).


Am I missing something (beyond the concerns about ballistics with straight-lands-and-grooves)?
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Old 01-18-2019, 9:43 AM
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If they would release the barrels for purchase separately, there some interesting things that CA residents could do...
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Old 01-18-2019, 9:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
If they would release the barrels for purchase separately, there some interesting things that CA residents could do...
I guess that leads me to the problem with all of this. Absent microstamping, you'd have the same problems regarding the roster and unsafe handgun manufacturing that have been discussed ad nauseum with regards to all AR pistols in the last few years.

Now, a 16" SLG reformation barrel would essentially evade all California assault weapon laws. Not a rifle, not a pistol due to barrel length, not subject to roster or unsafe handgun rules, not subject to assault weapon laws which only apply to rifles shotguns and pistols.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:08 AM
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Hmm...
Straight lands/groves could easily be argued as rifling. Rifling doesn't have to stabilize a bullet to be called rifling.

Maybe a BP upper that fires a breach loading charge and fired via percussion cap. Say .50 cal or .75?
The rules be wide open for BP pistols/rifles etc., even in this state.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:47 AM
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dont risk it, you are betting on the LEO who actually knows the difference
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Hmm...
Straight lands/groves could easily be argued as rifling. Rifling doesn't have to stabilize a bullet to be called rifling.
I suppose anything can "easily" be argued. But rifling is defined by virtually every dictionary and treatise on the topic as spiral or helical grooves.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:58 AM
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Wouldn't a smooth bore be a sbs @ that point?
The bore isn't smooth. It has lands and grooves. They're just not helical.
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Old 01-18-2019, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Hmm...
Straight lands/groves could easily be argued as rifling. Rifling doesn't have to stabilize a bullet to be called rifling.
The ATF would disagree with that arguement. Ask yourself why Franklin Armory can sell the Reformation with an 11.5" barrel and adjustable stock without any tax stamps.
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Old 01-18-2019, 4:23 PM
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dont risk it, you are betting on the LEO who actually knows the difference
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Old 01-18-2019, 5:06 PM
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The ATF would disagree with that arguement. Ask yourself why Franklin Armory can sell the Reformation with an 11.5" barrel and adjustable stock without any tax stamps.
dont forget we are in California.
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