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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2019, 4:39 PM
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Default A2 FH replaced with muzzle brake/compensator POI shift?

curious for those who did this; did the poi shift? if it did, by how much?
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Old 10-20-2019, 4:48 PM
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mine didnt. fired on a BB reg aw then instaled a Midway A2 Muzzle Break and used on a featureless and it shot same POI with the red dot.
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Old 10-20-2019, 5:00 PM
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good to know, thanks!
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Old 10-20-2019, 7:08 PM
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Every one of my ARs have, some by an inch, some by a few inches at 100yds.
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Old 10-20-2019, 7:09 PM
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A2 compensator that's properly installed won't shift poi. IME anyway. Some inefficient brakes will.

Dkked up install will cause problems. Cross threaded or not torqued enough so they come loose can cause things to go teats up, or using $5.00 ChiCom ebay crap.
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Last edited by FeuerFrei; 10-20-2019 at 7:11 PM..
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Old 10-20-2019, 8:00 PM
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i installed compensators on couple of them. will take them out for a test just to ease my mind before putting them away for winter.

thank you both.
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Old 10-20-2019, 11:30 PM
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The amount of shift will generally be tied to the difference in weight/length as well as design.
If you swap a 2.0 ounce A1 flash suppressor to a 2.0 ounce muzzle brake which has radial ports all the way around, I would not expect much zero change.
If you swap from a 2.0 ounce A2 to a 4.2 ounce compensator with HUGE ports on top, I would expect to see a dramatic shift in the zero.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:29 AM
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Old 10-21-2019, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The amount of shift will generally be tied to the difference in weight/length as well as design.
If you swap a 2.0 ounce A1 flash suppressor to a 2.0 ounce muzzle brake which has radial ports all the way around, I would not expect much zero change.
If you swap from a 2.0 ounce A2 to a 4.2 ounce compensator with HUGE ports on top, I would expect to see a dramatic shift in the zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
the answer is right under my nose and yet completely missed it.

appreciate the short education.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:27 AM
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For my better match barrels I prefer no muzzle device just a crown cut. With low recoil 223 a thread protector is good. If you have one see where it takes POI.

Now hypothetically, if they made a good brake for an 30'06 M1 Garand that would be something to try out to see if it tamed recoil and barrel rise during rapid fire.
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Old 10-22-2019, 9:11 AM
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our ar are all stock except for one that has alg (act) trigger for the wife.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:42 AM
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You might find this a worthwhile read.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/...-test-results/
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Old 10-27-2019, 9:20 AM
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^^^ thanks. will watch it later.

shot the ar yesterday and very interesting results. one shot approximately 3" high, the second shot approximately 3" low, the third approximately off to the left and the last one was just a tad off.
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Old 10-27-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
^^^ thanks. will watch it later.

shot the ar yesterday and very interesting results. one shot approximately 3" high, the second shot approximately 3" low, the third approximately off to the left and the last one was just a tad off.
You'd be surprised how much a difference a muzzle device can make in barrel whip...

As an example... ( granted a pencil profile barrel.. but.. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yzKLyARNeU
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoosh006 View Post
You'd be surprised how much a difference a muzzle device can make in barrel whip...

As an example... ( granted a pencil profile barrel.. but.. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yzKLyARNeU
can you imagine barrel whipping like that before the bullet exiting out.

sure nice to see it in slow mo. all these gadgets that make the naked eyes appreciate what's going on just before the bullet leaves the barrel.

thanks again for the link.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
can you imagine barrel whipping like that before the bullet exiting out.
You mean like if there was a gas piston attached to an op-rod and a gas cylinder attached to the barrel?

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Old 10-27-2019, 11:38 AM
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Barrels are going to undulate during firing which is why match rifles go with bull barrels and free floated barrels to minimize whip and get repeatable whip not influenced by bipods or sling tensions.
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Old 10-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You mean like if there was a gas piston attached to an op-rod and a gas cylinder attached to the barrel?

my eyes is not fast enough to determine if the bullet is out before the movement but you're the expert so i'll take your word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
Barrels are going to undulate during firing which is why match rifles go with bull barrels and free floated barrels to minimize whip and get repeatable whip not influenced by bipods or sling tensions.
when i first bought my ar, didn't not now about barrel whip but heard about light ones heat up faster. didn't want heavy so went with medium contour. ended up buying all subsequent built with medium.
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Old 10-28-2019, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
my eyes is not fast enough to determine if the bullet is out before the movement but you're the expert so i'll take your word for it.
Most piston operated rifles string their bullets vertically because the barrel is flexing before the bullet leaves the muzzle.

This is why direct impingement AR's are generally more accurate than piston operated rifles which have an op-rod and a gas cylinder on the barrel.
A gas tube AR has none of the actions operating forces transferred to the barrel since the gas tube slides freely inside the gas key.
The gas which exits the gas tube and makes the carrier move to the rear is pushing against the BOLT.

Any gun with a gas cylinder mounted on the barrel generates the operating forces AGAINST the barrel.
The further back the gas cylinder is from the muzzle, the more time the barrel has to be flexing before the bullet leaves.
The flex of the barrel begins at the same time that the op-rod starts moving as the force that moves the op-rod is generated against the barrel.
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  #20  
Old 10-29-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Most piston operated rifles string their bullets vertically because the barrel is flexing before the bullet leaves the muzzle.

This is why direct impingement AR's are generally more accurate than piston operated rifles which have an op-rod and a gas cylinder on the barrel.
A gas tube AR has none of the actions operating forces transferred to the barrel since the gas tube slides freely inside the gas key.
The gas which exits the gas tube and makes the carrier move to the rear is pushing against the BOLT.

Any gun with a gas cylinder mounted on the barrel generates the operating forces AGAINST the barrel.
The further back the gas cylinder is from the muzzle, the more time the barrel has to be flexing before the bullet leaves.
The flex of the barrel begins at the same time that the op-rod starts moving as the force that moves the op-rod is generated against the barrel.
i have to read it several times to get the picture but the first sentence is a head scratcher. don't own an ak so i have no idea what "string their bullets vertically" means.

thank you for the info.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
i have no idea what "string their bullets vertically" means.
This is what vertical stringing looks like on target:


That happens when the barrel is pointed in different locations when each bullet leaves the barrel.
The barrel points in different locations because of the gas piston forces acting against the barrel.
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  #22  
Old 10-29-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
This is what vertical stringing looks like on target:


That happens when the barrel is pointed in different locations when each bullet leaves the barrel.
The barrel points in different locations because of the gas piston forces acting against the barrel.
ahhh! got it. it's fun learning new things especially with illustrations. thanks!
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