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  #1  
Old 10-21-2016, 11:10 AM
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Neil McCauley Neil McCauley is offline
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Question How risky is it to buy an expensive rifle from a private party in another state?

So lets say I see a SCAR17S that I want to buy from a private seller thats either in another part of the state or outside, whats the risk of sending a private seller 4k+ via pay pal or whatever how he wants the payment? I'd imagine the only safest way to do this is via pay pal because since its linked to your credit card you could claim it was fraud should the seller fail to deliver or if it turns out to be a scam. Sending a money order or check while you wait 10 days forget it I think thats crazy. Because of this risk is why I bought my rifle via Turners since at least I know I'll actually get what I paid for even though it was more expensive. Also at least its brand new. What say ye?
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:12 AM
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Feedback feedback feedback...
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:18 AM
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Someone here, I can't remember who, recently got ripped off for $2000.
He received a magazine from the seller, seller claimed his brother screwed up the shipping.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:18 AM
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a lot of people don't like/trust paypal, but I've used it for a long time now and I think its pretty safe, I've had zero issues and its my only form of payment for my ebay account.

I've purchased 3 firearms via mail/paypal....now these were all calguners and they were in CA, but the process was the same. I also sent the sellers a pre-paid fedex label, 1) that makes it easier for them to just print out, attach and drop off and 2) you get all the tracking info as soon as FedEx has it, no waiting around for them to send you the tracking number or using some 2nd rate shipper or whatever.

For you, still a little risky since they're out of the calguns network or not on a verified site like gunbroker....how did you find out about it?
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:22 AM
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I believe paypal prohibits gun sales so I don't know that they'd help you out.

If you pay by USPS MO I've been told the Postal Inspector cares a lot about mail fraud.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:23 AM
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Check out pistolpay. I just used it for the 1st time for a sr25 upper lower set.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:24 AM
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PayPal buyer protection won't help you since paypal can't be used to purchase firearms.

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/a...irearms-FAQ585

Your credit card company may or may not be helpful, since you didn't purchase the gun from a business or a dealer. They will likely tell you to take it up with paypal, who is the business involved in the transaction (then see above).

Escrow is really the only safe way to go about it.

Never used these guys, but worth a look:
https://paysafeescrow.com/firearms-escrow
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by UP2MTNS View Post
a lot of people don't like/trust paypal, but I've used it for a long time now and I think its pretty safe, I've had zero issues and its my only form of payment for my ebay account.

I've purchased 3 firearms via mail/paypal....now these were all calguners and they were in CA, but the process was the same. I also sent the sellers a pre-paid fedex label, 1) that makes it easier for them to just print out, attach and drop off and 2) you get all the tracking info as soon as FedEx has it, no waiting around for them to send you the tracking number or using some 2nd rate shipper or whatever.

For you, still a little risky since they're out of the calguns network or not on a verified site like gunbroker....how did you find out about it?
I found an ad for a SCAR17S here that was out of state. In generally I'm just scared to send money to someone advertising here in CA because they know we're somewhat desperate right now.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:31 AM
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Well sheet. F that then, I don't want to take the risk. I'll look for something local, worth the extra cost to avoid a clusterpluck.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Well sheet. F that then, I don't want to take the risk. I'll look for something local, worth the extra cost to avoid a clusterpluck.
I agree with your decision.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
I found an ad for a SCAR17S here that was out of state. In generally I'm just scared to send money to someone advertising here in CA because they know we're somewhat desperate right now.
Yeah...I would have more issues trusting the seller in your situation than how you pay


I didn't even realize PayPal didn't allow firearm sales (per BenHK's post)...oops
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:54 AM
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There is always some risk involved in every transaction. That's life. Just do your best to minimize the level of risk.

Feedback is useful, but it also easy for a malevolent seller to manipulate feedback reports or to "steal" the feedback rating of another vendor. Look for "seller" feedback. "Buyer" feedback doesn't give you as much insight into the seller. Also look for feedback on similar items.

I did purchase a very expensive McMillan rifle through Gunbroker two years ago. I made a point of checking the sellers feedback on Gunbroker and once we established communication, I checked the buyer's name and phone through publically available records. That also allowed me to view imagery of his home using Google Earth and to verify that it was an actual residence (be very wary when the imagery check shows you a shopping center, and even more so when the shopping center has a UPS Store in it). In my case the imagery check revealed that the outdoor background shown on the Gunbroker photos matched the background of the seller's residence.

We arranged for payment to be via COD Cashier's Check to the UPS driver upon delivery to my FFL. UPS regs do not permit pre-payment inspection, but if the box is opened immediately after delivery and found to contain a bunch of rocks, there is a enough time for the UPS fraud folks to prevent delivery of the check to the seller. Credit cards do provide an added level of fraud protection, but most private sellers lack the capacity to handle credit card transactions.

I'll echo the caution against using "Paypal." Their terms of service do not allow for firearms transactions. During my years of reviewing appellate court cases for my employer, I came across one interesting Ninth Circuit case (I wish that I kept a copy for my files, I didn't because it wasn't a criminal case and therefore don't have access to the citation). It was a UPS case where the shipper had sent some extremely valuable jewelry through UPS. He intentionally mis-stated the contents to UPS and declared a value of the shipment far below the actual value. The shipment was lost and the plaintiff sued UPS. The court held for UPS. It didn't even allow the plaintiff to recover the stated value of the shipment. The reasoning was that by falsifying the contents, he denied UPS the ability to properly determine the security level that should be attached to the package. Something to think about if you're inclined to call a firearm shipment "Machine Parts."

In my case the sale and transfer went quite smoothly and I have been quite favorably impressed by the rifle, and the conduct of the seller.
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Last edited by RickD427; 10-21-2016 at 12:04 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2016, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP2MTNS View Post
Yeah...I would have more issues trusting the seller in your situation than how you pay


I didn't even realize PayPal didn't allow firearm sales (per BenHK's post)...oops
Me either. Kinda surprised actually. But that firearm escrow thing seems pretty solid. Wonder what they charge. I'm also going to call my credit card to see if I'm protected if I used pay pal just for clarification.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Well sheet. F that then, I don't want to take the risk. I'll look for something local, worth the extra cost to avoid a clusterpluck.
Definitely trust your gut instinct in a scenario like this.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
There is always some risk involved in every transaction. That's life. Just do your best to minimize the level of risk.

Feedback is useful, but it also easy for a malevolent seller to manipulate feedback reports or to "steal" the feedback rating of another vendor. Look for "seller" feedback. "Buyer" feedback doesn't give you as much insight into the seller. Also look for feedback on similar items.

I did purchase a very expensive McMillan rifle through Gunbroker two years ago. I made a point of checking the sellers feedback on Gunbroker and once we established communication, I checked the buyer's name and phone through publically available records. That also allowed me to view imagery of his home using Google Earth and to verify that it was an actual residence (be very wary when the imagery check shows you a shopping center, and even more so when the shopping center has a UPS Store in it). In my case the imagery check revealed that the outdoor background shown Gunbroker photos matched the background of the seller's residence.

We arranged for payment to be via COD Cashier's Check to the UPS driver upon delivery to my FFL. UPS regs do not permit pre-payment inspection, but if the box is opened immediately after delivery and found to contain a bunch of rocks, there is a enough time for the UPS fraud folks to prevent delivery of the check to the seller.

In my case the sale and transfer went quite smoothly and I have been quite favorably impressed by the rifle, and the conduct of the seller.
I'm glad your transaction came out the way it was suppost to but I tend to worry a lot, so I feel buying locally would put me at ease so I can think about other things and enjoy myself rather then worry about not getting what I need before the deadline.
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2016, 12:33 PM
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there are escrow accounts you can use for large dollar private sales or have the seller find a local FFL to ship it and pay some extra to make sure its a legit deal. Also you have to make sure its already compliant before it gets here..
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