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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Gov. Brown is no fool
Gerry Brown is a chameleon of sorts. By signing the anti-gun bills he can pander to his base, while at the same time serve us up a beautiful pitch. It's up to us to take that pitch and knock it outta the park. There is a silver lining to that dark cloud. As Gene always says "chess, not checkers." I think the Governor plays chess too, and he's not sitting across from us.
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"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson. "a system of licensing the right of self-defense, which doesn’t recognize self-defense as “good cause” Don Kilmer |
#2
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umm ok
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best troll thread in calguns history http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=406739 burn the circus down cuz the world is full of clowns |
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#4
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Keep voting Democrat and you will destroy what little gun rights we have left in California.
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Come and Take It! I'm the only hell my momma ever raised ... |
#5
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Wow...just, wow. You guys sure do see what you want to see. While Brown could certainly be worse, he is no friend to gun rights. He just passed legislation that we have been fighting tooth and nail in this state for as long as I have been into guns (registration of long guns) and you sing his praises.
Last edited by tacticalcity; 10-11-2011 at 12:08 PM.. |
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#10
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But don't you know? The world is divided into two, distinct, simple camps: the libs and the pro-2As.
And obviously, Brown must be a lib, therefore anti-2A. Black and white politics. They make a lot of sense to idiots and drunks.
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WTB: French & Finnish firearms. WTS: raw honey, tumbled .45 ACP brass, stupid cat. |
#12
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#13
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Anyone who took an unemotional look at the bills signed and not signed would be unable to claim Brown is completely anti-2a or pro-2a. Just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you, doesn't mean they 100% disagree.
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Let me handle your property needs and I will donate 10% of the brokerage total commission to CG. Buy or sell a home. Property management including vacation rentals. We can help with loans and refi's. 10% of all commissions will be donated to CG. Serving the greater San Diego area. Aaron Ross - BRE #01865640 CA Broker |
#15
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simply being a republican does NOT make one a friend of the 2nd. thinking that it does has done more harm then good. Since 1983 there have been 4 govenors, 3 R, 1 D. Of those 3, 2 did as much damage to your RKBA as did the 1 democrat, Davis. So far, while not ideal by any means, Gov Brown hasn't done any significant damage and maybe even (intentional or not. open to debate I guess) done us some "favors". But regardless he hasn't done any significant damage to your RKBAs. So far a lot less than George Deukmejian and Arnold Schwarzenegger did. and they were both Republican. This isn't a party issue, it's a Civil Rights issue. please treat it as such and stop making it a party issue. personally I want to win. Don't you? |
#16
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As someone who started out HIGHLY skeptical of Jerry Brown, let me just say this:
I'd much rather he vetoed the ammunition bill and signed off on banning UOC (which is all but meaningless for defensive purposes, anyway) than the other way around. Practicing UOC is nothing but a political statement; access and affordability of ammunition is an integral part of our favorite passtime and 2nd Amendment freedoms. I don't know whether the UOC activity has harmed (via public opinion) or helped (via pending court cases about the right to "bear") us, but we need to keep our eyes on the prize: concealed, loaded carry. |
#17
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The republican choice was vehemently antigun...........
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*anyone could be typing these messages, and probably not while under oath. |
#18
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"A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future." - Robert A Heinlein. |
#19
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I'm a Firefighter/EMT in an Oil Refinery, these little flames are nothing compared to what I'm used to.
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"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." "Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson. "a system of licensing the right of self-defense, which doesn’t recognize self-defense as “good cause” Don Kilmer |
#20
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I don't think JB's actions on Sunday are enough to fully characterize his position on the RBKA. He is certainly not a staunch friend of our RKBA, but I'm not yet convinced that he is an implacable foe, either.
At this point I think that the smart bet is that if the legislature sends him anti-RKBA legislation he will likely sign the bill unless it is clearly doomed and futile. He is not going to take political hits in order to protect our RKBA - which is an argument for keeping the visibility on the streets nice and low. I'm betting that the recent Cupertino shootings did not help our cause at all, and neither did the UOC demonstrations. But if it is clear to him that an anti-RKBA bill will be subject to litigation and will clearly fail as a result, he just might veto that bill. So he signed a pro-RKBA bill because it was just cleaning up the language and did not make a legally substantive change. He vetoed an amendment to a bill which had already been ruled unconstitutional and is likely to be definitively smacked down in the foreseeable future. He signed the unconstitutional AB144, but the ban on UOC is not going to cost him politically. It will salve the pride of some votes he is going to need in the upcoming budget battles. Understand, because of the Republican near-irrelevance in this state he really doesn't need to accomodate conservative/libertarian concerns. This is already getting too long so I won't delve any further. But on RKBA issues I consider Brown to be anything but our friend - and I don't think he is deliberately giving us great fodder for court cases. But he is not an implacable foe, either - he is an opportunist fascist politician who is much more concerned about his legacy as interpreted by his fellow fascists than anything that you and I might treasure. If we want to be relevant to Brown and others of his ilk, we need to be active within the NRA, the Republican party, and the Democrat party. We have to be legally and politically relevant since our civil rights don't really matter all that much to those in power. |
#21
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Meh. At least you can walk away if it gets too hot. We have to whip out the Shake and Bakes and turn into a group of baked 'taters on the side of a hill.
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Rule #1: Keep your booger hook off the bang-switch! Cruz/West 2016 - You STILL want to call me a racist tea bagger? |
#22
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I love California, but I am afraid of its government. Those who choose safety over freedom are neither safe or free! "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." (Tacitus, Roman historian 55-117 A.D.) “It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.” —- U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson |
#23
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Okay, just some thoughts on Jerry Brown.
1. Signed Amicus in favor of 2A. Check. 2. Signed AB610 to standardize 12050 PC. Check. 3. Vetoed bill to register ammo. Check. As others have already said, long gun registration doesn't go into effect until 2014, that gives our side time to get it ruled unconstitutional. AB144 made carrying an unloaded handgun illegal, an issue that stood in the way of a ruling in our favor in Peruta. Now they're going to have to come up with an alternative to that which, in their mind satisfies, the right to bear arms. So what could that possibly be ? Sorry, but I'm not seeing the bad side to this yet. |
#24
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*anyone could be typing these messages, and probably not while under oath. |
#27
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How? This shows the anti's that Brown will sign their crap. That will just add to the crap we have to fight. They can add crap at a much greater rate than we can get rid of. It is completely relevant.
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#29
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As long as it's insignificant crap, who cares.
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#30
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Because insignificant crap still has consequences. The UOC ban still strips people of one of their means of carry. It still takes time, money and effort to fight it. Stopping these bills before they become law is much more effective than spending time and money on "insignificant crap" that can be spent fighting the AW ban or the handgun roster.
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#31
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But over the years JB has done even more than you've noted above. So far as his recent signings of anti-RKBA bills? I view that more as someone who worries more about how his troops look than how they fight. The intent is to do such and so - the fact that the effect may be the opposite is irrelevant to the intent. But then, again, the fascist concept is that if your thoughts are pure and you are attempting to use government to bludgeon the populace into adherence to the approved thought processes - then everything will turn out right eventually. You may have to violate civil rights in the process, but in the end there will be more rights than if you hadn't. In someways the approach looks almost like the symbolism is more important than the function but it is a bit deeper than that. So a 12 year old is not competent to go and get a tan. But they are perfectly competent to choose to get an injected vaccination which could, indeed lead to severe complications. Fundamentally bizarre to say that they are competent in the one situation but not in the other - but in the fascist mind the one is a desired action and therefore they are competent to consent and the other action is not desired so they are incompetent to consent. It's asinine, but it's how Sacramento works. |
#32
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Everyone keeps saying Chess, not Checkers. Have you ever sacrificed a pawn to divert the attention of your opponent, while you move your more important pieces for the win ?
These insignificant victories are like that. |
#33
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it becomes a stalemate, we are busy fighting new legislation instead of advancing.
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*anyone could be typing these messages, and probably not while under oath. |
#34
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It isn't a board game, there are no finite number of pawns.
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*anyone could be typing these messages, and probably not while under oath. |
#35
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We are not on equal footing with the antis. They can pile as many bills as possible in our way while it takes us years to kill just one. |
#36
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No one ever won all of the battles, but we have to stay focused on winning the war. Because of the complacency of our grandparents, parents, and us, we allowed this to devolve into what we have to fight now. We are in a cultural battle to win back our independence. We can't complicate this by fighting amongst ourselves. |
#37
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It would well be LUCC (locked unloaded concealed carry)
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#38
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What is going to start happening is that as we get a few more precedents under our belts we'll be able to start going to the relevant court and quickly and easily get injunctions to stop much of the stupidity. We'll never stop all of the stupidity but it will get better. We'll even make some gains which will be recognized as such by just about everyone. But the fight will never really end - because stupid never ends. But we have to get the precedents. That's why cases like Richards, Peruta, Nordyke, etc. are important. Edit: Ab427 is actually an example of how the stupid will slow down. We have a relevant winning case which still has not finished all its appeals, but it was enough to get JB to kill AB427 - and it is likely not going to come back. Last edited by OleCuss; 10-11-2011 at 2:04 PM.. |
#39
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Who says anyone's gonna fight for UOC? I could give a rat's aasz about UOC if throwing it under the bus gives us a "CCW checkmate."
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Vote for pro-gun candidates, or lose your rights, and the rights of future generations. That's it. The end. "No one said life would be easy". |
#40
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I am not saying we give up but we cannot minimalize these laws. Getting over confident will set us back. Everyone was confident the latest Nordyke ruling was going to be big for us but we were sorely disappointed. |
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