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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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Update 6/28/18: NSSF v. State of California (Microstamping): Reversed/Lost 6/28/2018
The trial court denied the State's motion for judgment on the pleadings.
Order available here: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...nying-MJOP.pdf |
#3
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It's good
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#6
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Just the microstamping, as the suit is now.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#7
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Interesting, the marking requirement states:
31910. (7) (A) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The firing pin never touches the case. It strikes the primer, which excludes it from being a part that could imprint a cartridge case. |
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#10
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Assuming that the firearms also have a compliant loaded chamber indicator (LCI) and a magazine disconnect - which many firearms do not.
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#11
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Wouldn't cover loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect, or rulings like Glock/Georgia, USA is different from Glock/Austria.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#12
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Not just that too, but requiring the markings being transferred to the case "when the firearm is fired" as opposed to simply being loaded.
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NRA Endowment Member CRPA Life Member The best things in life are beyond money; their price is agony and sweat and devotion . . . and the price demanded for the most precious of all things in life is life itself--ultimate cost for perfect value. -R.A. Heinlein |
#14
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Put that on a .22 short !
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Having fresh eyes by a new member can be a good thing ! Great job!
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Last edited by Southwest Chuck; 04-29-2015 at 1:44 PM.. |
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I've pointed this out before.
On and on, people write about filing the numbers off the end of the firing pin as a "fix". The firing pin cannot be used to stamp. Read the law, read the patent. You do need to understand how things are made, too. MS is not possible. Even the MS inventor says it's not workable as is. If this truly is a new idea to you guys, I can explain more if needed. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=433
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Last edited by ojisan; 04-29-2015 at 2:07 PM.. |
#17
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So rimfire would work? The arm antics smart gun is rimfire, so they should be required to micro stamp. |
#18
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We are talking about hypothetical technologies here, after all.
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But then you've got the manufacturer's markings on the head of the case that are going to interfere with the readability of any microstamping applied to this region.
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I think not!
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#23
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No.
That means that the case will go to trial, unless it somehow gets settled another way.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#25
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However, if you read through the patent that the law was based on, the wording of the law, and the intent of the law as based on the discussion of the law as it went through the legislature, two places ALWAYS meant on the firing pin, and somewhere in a vastly different location from it. The patent drawings show it coming in on the side of a casing. AKA, let's drill a ****ing hole in the side of the chamber, that sounds like a great idea, not even discounting smearing from chamber in and ejecting, erosion, brass hardness, manufacturing ability. The legislature wrote an inane law that is impossible to comply with.
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#26
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Welllll....the law is being complied with if such guns without the mandated stamping features are no longer available, which is likely the entire point of the law to begin with. Get as many guns as possible off the shelf. ...rotten bass-turds. |
#27
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Nice! The ruling seems to address the issues without a lot of hand waving about public safety and such. Hopefully this will be looked at as a technical issue and not a "gun" issue.
I like the reading above re the firing pin marking the primer vs the case. I am not sure, but I don't think that anything in the pleadings up to this point would stop plaintiff from adding that into their complaint. Firing pins, as currently (and for the last hundred years or more) do not strike the "case", which is a different part of the cartridge from the primer. The plain meaning seems to be very clear, although legislative intent seems to have been to include the firing pin as one of the markers. Go get em! |
#28
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Seems to happen too often.
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Ammo Bros - San Diego Michelle@AmmoBros.com AmmoBros.com Ammo Bros - San Diego Facebook |
#29
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WTB: Magazines for S&W M&P 9c |
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Doesn't really help an opposing argument much - the definition is quite clear where it applies:
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It is possible to argue that the Legislature was specific about this, and since they did not choose to apply one piece of code (definition) to any other piece of code, that is not what they meant.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#31
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Boy, reading that decision, I kept thinking, "How many microstamps CAN you have dancing on the head of a pin?"
Echoes of my Catholic upbringing, I suppose. Hopefully this idiocy gets tossed into the trash bin, although I don't know what would then stop the legislature from coming back and writing a microstamping law that only requires a microstamp on one location.
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Proud to belong to the NRA Members' Council of Santa Clara County Disclaimer: All opinions are entirely my own. |
#32
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"...and that can be legibly, reliably, repeatedly, consistently, and effectively transferred..."
Maybe I'm reading too much into that quote, and its string of adjectives hinting at "does this crap even work?", but it seems like the judge is hinting to the state that "science" isn't on their side and they should think of settling. Even New Jersey's executive branch had the decency to not declare the "smart gun" available yet. The good news is if our politician's real goal was reducing handgun availability, the gun units sold numbers in recent years blow their thesis right in the face.
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------------------------- Last edited by thorium; 04-30-2015 at 7:59 PM.. |
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
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#35
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Only if the amount of force to extract the case is more than the amount of force to imprint the information. |
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#37
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two comments...
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Thorium, if I recall the backstory on NJ aspect of the CA smart gun by micro-stamping was that the original sponsor of the NJ law was desperate to unwind her own law, because the fact that the Armatix had been retailed in CA, meant that it triggered the clause written in 2002, that said the ONLY guns that could be sold after 3 years in NJ would be smart guns. Maybe even cops.... At one point NJ Senate leader Loretta Weinberg went on record 'blaming the NRA for not making a deal' to get the State off the hook of her own petard: http://www.msnbc.com/all/democrat-we...-smart-gun-law I know, its so crooked and nonsensical its funny, but remember- its Jersey, and never mind, the fix is in: Here is the State AG riding to the rescue with a "new interpretation". http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/12/02/...-gun-ag-finds/
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Where there is unity there is always victory. ~ Publius Syrus NRA Lifetime Member, SAF Lifetime Member |
#39
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so, Brandon on your assertion that "CA DOJ smarter than..."
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Still trying to parse your one liner- CA DOJ is smart, or was it snark? I can see Ms Kamala Harris, the politician, being smart- politically. But I dont see a lot of smart in CA DOJ, leadership or management wise. But then I am not so close to it as you. Feel free to PM if you like.
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Where there is unity there is always victory. ~ Publius Syrus NRA Lifetime Member, SAF Lifetime Member |
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
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