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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 07-30-2016, 12:56 PM
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Default So tell me about 1895 Winchesters

There's an 1895 Winchester in .30-40 near me that I'm curious about it. While I could just run over and take a look at it, I'd be out of my element. As such, I'm taking a day or two to do some research and learn some things about them.

In the interest of brevity, what should I be looking for, what should I be reading to learn about them? I haven't taken a close look at it but at first glance it appears to be in the original finish, worn but not beat up, and I have no idea of the serial so I can't place it in time.

It looks like the .30-40 uses .311 bullets? Chances are that if I bought it, it would likely just end up as a cast bullet plinker/range gun.
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Old 07-30-2016, 1:32 PM
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.30 U.S. Army uses .308 bullets.

http://www.nosler.com/3040-krag/

gl
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Old 07-30-2016, 1:47 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1895

Was used a lot in the last days of the old west- Mexican revolution, a favorite rifle of the Arizona rangers.

Used in the Russian revolution.

A nice weapon, if I found a good one at a fair price esp in .30-06, I would buy it..
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Old 07-30-2016, 3:10 PM
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Well, the first thing you want to find out is if it has been refinished or modified in any way. If someone refinished the wood or polished/scrubbed/blued the metal, it would be a shooter only and not collectable, and thus be worth quite a bit less.

My thing is 1894's and 1892's, so I can only offer general advice. But - buggered screws, non-original sights, missing parts..... all these are Bad Things when it comes to Winchester lever guns.

You want one with honest wear, and hopefully a good bore. If any parts are missing they are near impossible to find. Sporterized? Only buy it if you get a good price and can live with what has been done to it.
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Old 07-30-2016, 3:15 PM
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I wish they still made them......
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Old 07-30-2016, 3:22 PM
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Look for badly eroded throat and badly worn muzzle from cleaning from the front end. Make sure everything functions and when the hammer is on half cock it stays there when you press the trigger.

I had an original 95 SRC in .30-06 and the headspace was gone on it. The .30-40 was easier on the 95 action so that isn't as much of a concern.

Is it a carbine or a rifle? Be aware that Browning and Winchester marketed a modern version of the 95 in both .30-40 and .30-06 made in Japan. High quality arms, I had one of the Browning rifles in .30-40 and it was a real peach.
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Old 07-30-2016, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
I wish they still made them......
Winchester recently sold them in .405, .270 and also sold them in .30-06 in the carbine version.
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Old 07-30-2016, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Well, the first thing you want to find out is if it has been refinished or modified in any way. If someone refinished the wood or polished/scrubbed/blued the metal, it would be a shooter only and not collectable, and thus be worth quite a bit less.
...
But - buggered screws, non-original sights, missing parts..... all these are Bad Things when it comes to Winchester lever guns.

You want one with honest wear, and hopefully a good bore. If any parts are missing they are near impossible to find. Sporterized? Only buy it if you get a good price and can live with what has been done to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
Look for badly eroded throat and badly worn muzzle from cleaning from the front end. Make sure everything functions and when the hammer is on half cock it stays there when you press the trigger.

I had an original 95 SRC in .30-06 and the headspace was gone on it. The .30-40 was easier on the 95 action so that isn't as much of a concern.

Is it a carbine or a rifle? Be aware that Browning and Winchester marketed a modern version of the 95 in both .30-40 and .30-06 made in Japan. High quality arms, I had one of the Browning rifles in .30-40 and it was a real peach.
I'll take a closer look at it in a couple of days. From what I've seen it certainly looks original (sitting on the rack) unless someone took the time to wear it almost to white metal (i.e. bluing in the recesses, generally white every where else) and darken the wood. They're asking $1100 which seems commensurate with the prices I've seen on gunbroker. I'll see if I can bring a mirror and flashlight to take a look at the bore/chamber area.
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2016, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 2761377 View Post
.30 U.S. Army uses .308 bullets.

http://www.nosler.com/3040-krag/

gl
Good to see.
loaddata.com shows the .30-40 with a case mouth of .3095 ID, the SAAMI drawing shows it at .309 - 0.003 (=.306?).

I should stick to computers...

Mostly I'm curious because I have a bunch of factory cast 165 gr polymer coated .309 bullets that shoot well enough in another gun.
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Old 07-30-2016, 5:28 PM
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I shot three rounds out of a .405 chambered '95... Very cool rifle and they handle pretty well too!
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Old 07-31-2016, 1:05 AM
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You can't learn enough in two days to make an educated guess.
Jon
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Old 07-31-2016, 4:26 AM
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You can't learn enough in two days to make an educated guess.
Jon
Well certainly not with that attitude, how about in two months?
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Old 07-31-2016, 5:14 AM
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As other have said, parts are difficult to find so make sure everything is there, in good shape, and functioning correctly. On mine one thing I do not like is the crescent butt stock. The upper and lower points are not set up correctly for me so shooting it was painful until I added a limb saver.

Many 1895s that I found have had their barrel cut down and so I would measure it to confirm it is the expected length. 1895s could be ordered with custom length barrels, but from my limited exposure most rifles with shorter barrels had them cut down.
Here are a few links to web sites I found helpful and the real guns has a part 2 (link on the on the bottom of the page) that has some reloading/case information.

http://homestead-service.com/apprais...igurations.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/model_1895.htm

http://www.realguns.com/articles/570.htm

Last edited by toro1; 07-31-2016 at 6:14 AM.. Reason: add link
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  #14  
Old 07-31-2016, 6:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toro1 View Post
As other have said, parts are difficult to find so I make sure everything is there, in good shape, and functioning correctly. On mine one thing I do not like is the crescent butt stock. The upper and lower points are not set up correctly for me so shooting it was painful until I added a limb saver.

Many 1895s that I found have had their barrel cut down and so I would measure it to confirm it is the expected length. 1895s could be ordered with custom length barrels, but from my limited exposure most rifles with shorter barrels had them cut down.
Here are a few links to web sites I found helpful and the real guns has a part 2 (link on the on the bottom of the page) that has some reloading/case information.

http://homestead-service.com/apprais...igurations.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/model_1895.htm

http://www.realguns.com/articles/570.htm
Awesome, thanks. I just read the leverguns article earlier this morning! Woohoo for the internet!
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Old 07-31-2016, 6:15 AM
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I just added the homestead link as I had trouble finding it earlier. For me that was very helpful in understanding the various configs the 1895 came in.
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Old 07-31-2016, 6:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
buggered screws, non-original sights, missing parts..... all these are Bad Things when it comes to Winchester lever guns.

You want one with honest wear, and hopefully a good bore. If any parts are missing they are near impossible to find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
Look for badly eroded throat and badly worn muzzle from cleaning from the front end. Make sure everything functions and when the hammer is on half cock it stays there when you press the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toro1 View Post
As other have said, parts are difficult to find so I make sure everything is there, in good shape, and functioning correctly.

Many 1895s that I found have had their barrel cut down and so I would measure it to confirm it is the expected length. 1895s could be ordered with custom length barrels, but from my limited exposure most rifles with shorter barrels had them cut down.

Welp, it looks like armed with enough knowledge to keep myself from getting a total dud (at least after a bit more reading/research of my own).

I don't expect this to be a Pancho Villa gun or any sort of diamond in the rough but it's good to hear things like "parts are super hard to find".

I think the shop is closed today so I'll run by sometime next week to take a closer look.
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Old 07-31-2016, 7:21 AM
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Try this link for a list of serial numbers and dates of manufacture. http://www.winchesterguns.com/conten...-Documents.pdf

I have an old model 1895 that was made in 1900. It is marked .30 U.S. That us the same cartridge as the .30-40 Krag. It should have a crescent but plate and a 28" bbl. If it has a Lyman receiver sight, that brings a premium. On of the things I like about my rifle is it has a silver front sight and if one looks closely one can see it was made from a silver quarter by a long ago gunsmith.

I also have two Miroku made rifles: a Browning in .30-40 and a Winchester in .405. They are also great rifles.
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Old 07-31-2016, 7:28 AM
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I have a Browning-Miroku in 30-06. Great gun and I love it. Really wish Browning or Winchester would come out with a new batch.

Imagine a new made one in .303 or 7.62x54R? Holy cow!
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Old 07-31-2016, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyer898 View Post
Try this link for a list of serial numbers and dates of manufacture. http://www.winchesterguns.com/conten...-Documents.pdf
No offense, but that document is highly outdated and horribly wrong. The actual Winchester ledgers never made it to Olin (who owns the Winchester brand). The dates on that document (and the otherwise very highly regarded book by George Madis) come from extrapolated and anecdotal guesses in some cases.

The Winchester ledgers are held by the Cody Firearms Museum at the Buffalo Bill Center for the West and if you are a member, they will look up the original build info (if it exists) for the serial number you are interested in. That is one good way to research a buy before you commit. They will also (for a fee) provide a letter stating as such if the individual rifle you have is in the ledgers.

The dating info from the museum is available for lookup at http://winchestercollector.org/dates/

This is your best source of Winchester dating info and is based on the most current research.

Also, The 4th Edition of the Red Book of Winchester Values was just released earlier this month. This is data based on actual cataloged sales and the various cataloging done by members of the Winchester Arms Collectors Association. It is a great reference to have. If you can supply the serial number and build description of the rifle in question, I can look up the value in the Red Book if you like. PM me.

Value is completely based on configuration, condition and authenticity. Proper stamps, matching marks (for example, barrel dates are stamped under the forearm and can quickly verify a rebuilt rifle), wood that is proud of metal (not refinished), etc., all lend greatly to the value.

If you'd like me to look up your rifle, let me know.

Good luck,

Steve
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Old 07-31-2016, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supergimp View Post

If you'd like me to look up your rifle, let me know.

Good luck,

Steve
Thanks for the offer, I'll let you know after I get a chance to swing by the shop again!
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:35 AM
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Well certainly not with that attitude, how about in two months?
What attitude? I'm being realistic. Sorry if you can't /won't do the research that is required. One needs to read everything he can to become familiar with what ever his project is. By reading, I'm not talking about an Internet site. Books still have a purpose.
Jon
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Old 08-01-2016, 1:01 PM
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Are you going to offer any suggestions? So far you're about the only respondent that hasn't been helpful in some way.

I mean, that is the reason for this thread, to ask for suggestions as to what I should be reading in an effort to research the topic at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the first post in this thread
what should I be reading to learn about them?
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Old 08-01-2016, 1:07 PM
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What you're asking for is a years long education in two days. It isn't going to happen that way. I just hope you don't get burned if you jump on it without knowing what you need to know.
Jon
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