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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 05-19-2015, 7:20 PM
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Smile $13 "standard" shotgun

Got this the other day for exactly $13 and was wondering if you guys could help me out. Old single barrel 12 gauge. Sold to me as an antique at a garage sale . Took some quick pictures see if you could hopefully give me more details on it? Only writing I've seen is the standard on the side and serial number 836. Any questions just ask. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2015, 7:22 PM
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Last pics, serial number is next to the trigger guard on the bottom.
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2015, 6:35 AM
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I don't think long gun FTF is legal anymore.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu..._in_California
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Since 1991, substantially all firearms transfers are required to use a California-licensed FFL. There are no legal 'paperless' or 'face to face' handgun transfers, and as of 2014, no longer any way to sell long guns FTF.
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Old 05-20-2015, 6:53 AM
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If its an antique, it doesnt have to go through an ffl, or if he has an 03, and coe.
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Old 05-20-2015, 7:22 AM
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Looks like a Harrington & Richardson (H&R) break action shotgun, early 1900s.
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Old 05-20-2015, 4:13 PM
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If it is a High Standard they didn't start making guns until 1926.
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Old 05-20-2015, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paratroop View Post
If its an antique, it doesnt have to go through an ffl, or if he has an 03, and coe.
This^^
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Old 05-20-2015, 5:25 PM
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Sweet, I'd pay $13.00 every day for a wall decoration like that.
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Old 05-20-2015, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st Generation Gun Owner View Post
I don't think long gun FTF is legal anymore.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu..._in_California
If its an antique, like mosinnagant and paratroop said, it all good.
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Old 05-20-2015, 5:48 PM
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I think you've been had. It looks like an early 1900s single-shot shotgun, but I can't find anything on that brand. My guess would be that it was either one of the multitude of low-cost shotguns that came in from Europe around that time, or an off-brand gun made for a retailer by one of the American companies. Either way, they were never worth much. And I don't know if I would even consider that one to be functional. It might make a cool decoration. But I wouldn't try firing it, even with a tire and a looong string.

-Mb
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Old 05-20-2015, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnitedWeStand View Post
Looks like a Harrington & Richardson (H&R) break action shotgun, early 1900s.
Thanks for the info! seems like the best guess so far
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Old 05-20-2015, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy View Post
I think you've been had. It looks like an early 1900s single-shot shotgun, but I can't find anything on that brand. My guess would be that it was either one of the multitude of low-cost shotguns that came in from Europe around that time, or an off-brand gun made for a retailer by one of the American companies. Either way, they were never worth much. And I don't know if I would even consider that one to be functional. It might make a cool decoration. But I wouldn't try firing it, even with a tire and a looong string.

-Mb
Even the guy I bought it from told me not to fire . Probably going to hang it off the wall or something. Functionality wise, its rusty and chipped on the side so im not sure what would happen if it were fired. Never expected it be worth anything. And thanks for the information, that probably seems like what it would be, if i dont find any branding or such.

Last edited by edgarchavez; 05-20-2015 at 6:13 PM..
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2015, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chknlyps2 View Post
If it is a High Standard they didn't start making guns until 1926.

It just say standard, so I dont think it is. Thanks though.
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Old 05-20-2015, 6:28 PM
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If it is serial numbered doesn't that mean it is probably from the 50s or later?
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Old 05-20-2015, 6:38 PM
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So.......this probably isn't an antique then?

Uh oh!

Good thing you got you 03FFL and COE....right?
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Old 05-20-2015, 7:51 PM
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Turn it in for 100$ at the next gun buy back
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Old 05-20-2015, 8:09 PM
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Not sure if its actually a serial number or not, and wouldn't there need to be something more on the gun besides that and an unknown manufacturer? It would probably have to be a known company if it was from after the 50's?
Might be worth it to turn in also.

Last edited by edgarchavez; 05-20-2015 at 8:30 PM..
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Old 05-20-2015, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkt88edmo View Post
If it is serial numbered doesn't that mean it is probably from the 50s or later?
Not necessarily. Some manufactures have serialized most of their long guns since the 1860's or even before that.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2015, 8:30 PM
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Not necessarily. Some manufactures have serialized most of their long guns since the 1860's or even before that.
Big update, just looked under barrel says model 1856 or 66 and some word I can't read because its blocked by the break open. So its definently old, will take apart and pictures soon to follow! Edit; pic added, dont know how to completely disassemble so sorry for the missing part. also found patents for October 1866, any useful info?
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Old 05-20-2015, 9:13 PM
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what CSA said, some have been using serial numbers long before the 1950's.
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Old 05-20-2015, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgarchavez View Post
Big update, just looked under barrel says model 1856 or 66 and some word I can't read because its blocked by the break open. So its definently old, will take apart and pictures soon to follow! Edit; pic added, dont know how to completely disassemble so sorry for the missing part. also found patents for October 1866, any useful info?
Pop off the fore grip and then the barrel should just slide up off the hinge.
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Old 05-20-2015, 9:55 PM
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Pop off the fore grip and then the barrel should just slide up off the hinge.
Exactly what I did, but still won't budge.
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Old 05-21-2015, 6:53 AM
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My 1911 says model 1911.....it was not made in 1911.

that can make a nice lamp post.
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Old 05-21-2015, 8:41 AM
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My 1911 says model 1911.....it was not made in 1911.

that can make a nice lamp post.

Yes, bur it has another date of manufacture thats in the 1800s. And true
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Old 05-21-2015, 8:44 AM
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For a cash and carry transaction to be legal the shotgun would have to be mfg prior to 1899.
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Old 05-21-2015, 9:23 AM
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The general outline of the receiver identifies it as one of the very large number of that type of inexpensive shotgun built by the 'Massachusetts Arms Co.' of Chicopee Falls, Mass.

These are found marked with a wide variety of 'brand names', as they were built on contract for many large wholesale suppliers to hardware stores, and mail-order suppliers like Sears Roebuck.

Someone, somewhere, may have done a study on these, in which approximate date ranges of production may be identified by subtle changes in the machining of components. i rather doubt that, but it may happen someday, just as historical trivia.

The one pictured probably was built in the early to mid 1890's, tho, as may be seen by the cut on the left side of the receiver for the lock for the action swivel screw, which, on the early ones, was removed to take the shotgun apart. Later versions just used a pressed swivel pin, and had the parts dimensioned so that the barrel would come away from the receiver after the forearm was removed. (the forearm was held by an 'over-centre' spring, and a firm pull downwards would remove the forearm from the barrel.

If the bore and chamber aren't badly rust-pitted, the barrel could be polished-out a bit, and it would be safe to fire with black powder rounds. (Ive seen quite a few of them do just fine with modern low-base 'trap-loads', but I daren't recommend firing any smokeless loading in a pre-1900 vintage shotgun......I can tell you, tho, from first-hand experience, that one of those will kill a duck or goose just as dead as will any much more 'elegant' and more costly shotgun.....i. e., they are usually full-choke, and will pattern well.)

I don't know just how many of that style of shotgun had been produced, over the years, but it was a very large number, as they were a staple product for several New England small-arms plants.

Generally, they were a strong, simple action, and almost never malfunctioned, except they will be found with broken firing pin tips from dry-firing. Turning a replacement firing pin, when needed, is a simple and easy task, using a 'grade 5' or 'grade 8' capscrew as the 'turning stock'.

cheers

Carla
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Old 05-22-2015, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
The general outline of the receiver identifies it as one of the very large number of that type of inexpensive shotgun built by the 'Massachusetts Arms Co.' of Chicopee Falls, Mass.

These are found marked with a wide variety of 'brand names', as they were built on contract for many large wholesale suppliers to hardware stores, and mail-order suppliers like Sears Roebuck.

Someone, somewhere, may have done a study on these, in which approximate date ranges of production may be identified by subtle changes in the machining of components. i rather doubt that, but it may happen someday, just as historical trivia.

The one pictured probably was built in the early to mid 1890's, tho, as may be seen by the cut on the left side of the receiver for the lock for the action swivel screw, which, on the early ones, was removed to take the shotgun apart. Later versions just used a pressed swivel pin, and had the parts dimensioned so that the barrel would come away from the receiver after the forearm was removed. (the forearm was held by an 'over-centre' spring, and a firm pull downwards would remove the forearm from the barrel.

If the bore and chamber aren't badly rust-pitted, the barrel could be polished-out a bit, and it would be safe to fire with black powder rounds. (Ive seen quite a few of them do just fine with modern low-base 'trap-loads', but I daren't recommend firing any smokeless loading in a pre-1900 vintage shotgun......I can tell you, tho, from first-hand experience, that one of those will kill a duck or goose just as dead as will any much more 'elegant' and more costly shotgun.....i. e., they are usually full-choke, and will pattern well.)

I don't know just how many of that style of shotgun had been produced, over the years, but it was a very large number, as they were a staple product for several New England small-arms plants.

Generally, they were a strong, simple action, and almost never malfunctioned, except they will be found with broken firing pin tips from dry-firing. Turning a replacement firing pin, when needed, is a simple and easy task, using a 'grade 5' or 'grade 8' capscrew as the 'turning stock'.

cheers

Carla

Thanks Carla! Might have to try it some day.
-Edgar
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