SCOTUS Cert Petition for Carry filed - Kachalsky || Cert DENIED 4/15

[hoffmang]

Earlier today, Alan Gura filed on behalf of individual plaintiffs and SAF this petition for cert to the US Supreme Court in the matter of Kachalsky v Cacace.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/kac...2013-01-08.pdf

This is asking SCOTUS to take and decide whether discretionary issuance of carry licenses is unconstitutional. It points out the circuit split with Moore in the 7th Circuit.

Interestingly, IL filed for en-banc review in Moore arguing that that case did indeed create a circuit split. Filing: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/moo...2013-01-08.pdf

This case has time to be granted this session (which ends in late June of 2013) but, if granted, would likely be orally argued at the beginning of the 2014 session which is fall of 2013.

-Gene

[stix213]

Been waiting for this!!!!

Expect all CA9 carry cases to be put on hold pending this case if it gets cert though....

[CCWFacts]

Originally Posted by stix213

Been waiting for this!!!!

Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights, except for the right to free stuff and open borders.

If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?

Originally Posted by stix213

Expect all CA9 carry cases to be put on hold pending this case if it gets cert though....

IANAL but I assume that's what would happen?

That's a good thing because one of the cases in CA9 is the Gorski case and it would be terrible if that went any further.

It's a bummer that we will have to wait until late 2014 for our right to carry here in California's hold-out areas, but better late than never. I knew it would take years for this issue to get to a decision point.

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?

[ddestruel]

Originally Posted by CCWFacts

Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights especially the second amendment

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?

considering Moore is hot on its tail, i'll be interested to see if that is granted en banc by the 7th. If it isnt and illinois asks SCOTUS to take it up then you'd have two prime clean clear cut cases sitting there with both law abiding citizens which iirc has been the underlaying issue on previous SCOTUS 2nd ammendment challenges since Mcdonald.

lord knows the CA9 is a precursor of SCOTUS in the future if progressives and living document justices keep being nominated and approved.......

God's speed to this case. I'll put money on it thinking that its going to be accepted ....... in the form of a SAF / CG donation

[Mulay El Raisuli]

Originally Posted by CCWFacts

Yeah this needs to happen, the sooner the better. Some of our five justices are getting old, and anyone picked by Obama is going to be a progressive activist, and young, and deeply hostile to all individual rights, except for the right to free stuff and open borders.

If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?



IANAL but I assume that's what would happen?

That's a good thing because one of the cases in CA9 is the Gorski case and it would be terrible if that went any further.

It's a bummer that we will have to wait until late 2014 for our right to carry here in California's hold-out areas, but better late than never. I knew it would take years for this issue to get to a decision point.

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?

Oh, yes!


The Raisuli

[Moonshine]

The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by Moonshine

The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.

I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed but it has never gotten better and only worse..

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by Moonshine

The name Alan Gura must strike fear deep into the hearts of gun control advocates everywhere.

I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed for it has never gotten better and gotten worse with him as our champion. I laud him for helping teh rest of the nation so maybe the message is CA is lost for all time and they'll focus on saving what is left of the USA. So far anyway.

[CapS]

Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli

Really?

Really.
Somehow I think this Alan Gura guy is really going places with this Constitutional Law stuff.



Cap

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by CapS

Really.
Somehow I think this Alan Gura guy is really going places with this Constitutional Law stuff.



Cap

I love his style: cogent, concise, and compelling. And SCOTUS listens, but the PRK coud give a d@mn if and SCOTUS has done NOTHING about the PRK's refusals. That's why I doubted the "everywhere" and now CO, NJ, and NY have joined not everywhere land. The big wins of McDonald and Heller have done nothing for us in the PRK ruled by the Caliban, in fact things have been getting worse since them.

[ddestruel]

Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli

I grant that Alan Gura is indeed a warrior for our rights...but everywhere? Really? Everywhere? Really?

Here in California we still have the AWB, special waiting periods, The Roster, longer waiting periods, the 10-round limit, numerous local restrictions and more and more every day. WTF? If he is our knight on a white horse, then we are truly screwed for it has never gotten better and gotten worse with him as our champion. I laud him for helping teh rest of the nation so maybe the message is CA is lost for all time and they'll focus on saving what is left of the USA. So far anyway.

Patience is a virtue

The courts in the 9th circus tend to have a uncanny ability to weasle their way around cases ruling and remanding back to a lower court or finding a reason to delay upon delay. other circuit courts seem to be interested in at least ruling on the 2nd allowing ti to at least be challenged in a timely fashion ...... no matter what SCOTUS applies universally so relief will come to CA over time remember you've only had this recognized individual right for a few years and each of these challenges asking for specific clearification takes time to find the right case and structure the right question and get it througha court system that wont delay or claim no standing.

[advocatusdiaboli]

Originally Posted by ddestruel

Patience is a virtue

The courts in the 9th circus tend to have a uncanny ability to weasle their way around cases ruling and remanding back to a lower court or finding a reason to delay upon delay. other circuit courts seem to be interested in at least ruling on the 2nd allowing ti to at least be challenged in a timely fashion ...... no matter what SCOTUS applies universally so relief will come to CA over time remember you've only had this recognized individual right for a few years and each of these challenges asking for specific clearification takes time to find the right case and structure the right question and get it througha court system that wont delay or claim no standing.

I understand patience is important. I will keep fighting (not fighting will hasten our right's demise), but if the onslaught continues apace while relief is non-existent, our position will be completely overrun before any relief comes. At this glacial pace, we'll have completely lost our right and all of our guns and ammo before any relief comes and it will come to our grandchildren when there are no guns for them to inherit making the victory moot.

[Peaceful John]

As a reminder to all, this matter is not a California only issue. It is a national battle and the best overall cases, that if won will impact this state as well, are from back East. And look how far we've come: Kachalsky is scheduled for an April 12 cert conference; orals are done in Piszozatoksi; Wollard and (possibly) Moore are in play. There are four sound cases, all similar in a material way, argued on our behalf by the best in the field. We are at the end game. The liberals have to win all; we have only to win one and the world shifts and takes California with it. As our friends say, this being Passover week, "Next year in Jerusalem!"

[Tiberius]

I haven't been following all the cases closely, but to me it looks like a win here would result in nationwide shall-issue. Which would only be change in a few states - one of those, of course, being California.

[Tiberius]

I haven't been following all the cases closely, but to me it looks like a win here would result in nationwide shall-issue. Which would only be change in a few states - one of those, of course, being California.

[Kopis]

That is......big. Thank you, everyone involved, for the hard work.

[Connor P Price]

This is good to see. Guidance from SCOTUS on bear will be a big turning point.

[decepticon6551]

WooHoo!!

Gura Gura Gura

[gregorylucas]

Thanks for this bright spot among dark news everywhere these days sir!

[chris]

Originally Posted by decepticon6551

WooHoo!!

Gura Gura Gura

Go Alan go. I wonder if this would put another nail in the gun banners coffin if the ruling goes our way?

[dc2integra]

Very nice good job alan!

[cvnhank]

Gene,
Thank you for posting. Hank

[Hogstir]

How common is it for enbanc to reverse a panels decision?

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by CCWFacts

If we don't get this win now it will never happen. Is this the first "bear" case that's at this stage?

...

What are the odds of cert being granted on this case? I assume pretty high?

This is the first case that we're in a place to appeal. We won Moore and it's a little further behind. It obviously appears that Hightower will not be asked for cert.

The split gives this case pretty decent odds.

Originally Posted by Hogstir

How common is it for enbanc to reverse a panels decision?

Not very common and it's another common impetus that would drive a cert grant as well. Said another way - SCOTUS looks closely at cases that went en-banc at the cert stage. However, the fact that Moore is out there is good for the Kachalsky petition.

-Gene

[CCWFacts]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

This is the first case that we're in a place to appeal. We won Moore and it's a little further behind.

The split gives this case pretty decent odds.

That's great. This case was designed from the very beginning to go to SCOTUS, and the guy behind it is the guy who so far has the best track record with 2A SCOTUS cases, and that's what I want.

I like the tone of urgency in this brief, because it is urgent. This is the last shot. We may never again have a conservative majority on SCOTUS.

[VegasND]

Good news. I hope to see this one turn out well.

[eville]

Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?

[stix213]

Originally Posted by eville

Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?

I'd like to know the answer here as well. Is it too late for a 2013 decision?

[jar]

Originally Posted by stix213

I'd like to know the answer here as well. Is it too late for a 2013 decision?

Most likely yes. It would take everything falling perfectly to even have a chance to be heard this term. However, we'll almost definitely have a decision on whether or not to hear the case before the end of this term.

[l8apex]

Thank you all for your hard work and effort. Glad to be associated with patriots.

[kcbrown]

Gura is awesome here as usual.

This bit is pure gold:

Originally Posted by Kachalsky cert petition

The aversion to enforcing the Second Amendment manifested by some of the lower courts is difficult to overstate. The District of New Jersey, for example, faced with a challenge to that state’s identical law, simply declared the entire Second Amendment field outside the home a nuisance from which it would shield government lawyers. “Given the considerable uncertainty regarding if and when the Second Amendment rights should apply outside the home, this Court does not intend to place a burden on the government to endlessly litigate and justify every individual limitation on the right to carry a gun in any location for any purpose.” Piszczatoski v. Filko, 840 F. Supp. 2d 813, 829 (D.N.J. 2012), appeal pending, No. 12-1150 (3d Cir. filed Jan. 16, 2012).

(emphasis mine)

[Baja Daze]

Thanks Gene, this is great news!

And I will admonish my fellow Calguns members here to please support the SAF and if you have already done so, thank you and maybe do a little bit more!

Sorry, however I have to ask....how much influence will recent events (criminal, political, etc.) have on SCOTUS and specifically the Heller five in regards to granting cert here?

[Coded-Dude]

Originally Posted by kcbrown

Gura is awesome here as usual.

This bit is pure gold:



(emphasis mine)

There are certainly some gems in this one.....and I am only about halfway done.

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by eville

Do we know how long they have to accept or deny the case? Is it still possible for a decision by June?

There will be some procedural machinations (like whether NY chooses to oppose or has to be ordered to respond by SCOTUS) that will mean we will not see it "in conference" for 60-90 days. It is highly likely that we will know if the case will be heard before the end of June (when SCOTUS recesses.) However, it is very unlikely that it would be orally argued before the start of next term (October 2013) and even less likely that we'd have a decision before the 2013-2014 term. If granted, the worst case timing is late June 2014 though it could be earlier in that term. History counsels that we'd see a decision, if granted, in June 2X, 2014.

Originally Posted by Baja Daze

Sorry, however I have to ask....how much influence will recent events (criminal, political, etc.) have on SCOTUS and specifically the Heller five in regards to granting cert here?

That's unknowable. On the one side, things are crazy. On the other side, the reason we have a constitution is to save us from majoritarian mad passion. Recall that either way, the key decisions on this case will get made quite a few weeks and months from the current news cycle.

-Gene

[Kid Stanislaus]

I'm an atheist but I think I'll get down on my knees and PRAY that no conservative member of the SCOTUS dies between now and then!!

[Baja Daze]

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus

I'm an atheist but I think I'll get down on my knees and PRAY that no conservative member of the SCOTUS dies between now and then!!

Amen to that and God Bless you!

[Dr.Lou]

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus

I'm an atheist but I think I'll get down on my knees and PRAY that no conservative member of the SCOTUS dies between now and then!!

That's cool, but to whom will you pray?

[Sakiri]

Originally Posted by Dr.Lou

That's cool, but to whom will you pray?

Joe Pesci.

Just like George Carlin.

Or the sun. He said he worshiped the sun, but prayed to Joe.

[Sakiri]

God bless that man. Hopefully this gets through quick and is a win. Then maybe we can work on the extortion fees that is ccw permits after it goes shall issue. Seriously. My last three states of residence dont charge over 300 to get a permit.

[ZNiner]

Gene, thanks for offering a ray of sunshine in the midst of the current storm for us gun owners.