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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #361  
Old 11-24-2013, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Not really an ak fan but this gun is very nice. Too bad about the 1300 price tag + CA tax + Transfer + dros +++

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

One of the nice things about AKs is that my $300 Saiga will do everything that one will. Plus I don't have to use a BB.
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  #362  
Old 01-01-2014, 7:42 PM
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"Behind cover? HA my AK laughs at your cover!"

I don't want to have to shoot my AR threw bushes and have it deflected by a leaf.
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  #363  
Old 01-01-2014, 7:47 PM
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This should be easy....both!
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  #364  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:25 PM
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Boy, it all just depends.

Either will work. I prefer the .30 cal, but don't want to hump it and don't expect ammo to be easy to find.

If I were travelling distance, or needed easy resupply, I'd go .223.

If I were not going far, or thought I could hump all the ammo I'd likely need, I'd go .223

I bought an AK in .223 and modded to accept AR mags just to hedge my bets.

I don't care what anyone says, that 7.62x39 is plenty accurate to 300 yards and punches through stuff that would deflect a .223. That said, AK mags are *heavy* and the ammo, too.

so the answer is, definitely, yes.
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  #365  
Old 01-20-2014, 6:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
If that were true the military wouldn't keep spending millions of dollars upgrading the 5.56 round (55gr, 62gr, 69gr, 77gr and now the non-hollow-point-hollow-point) trying to get 7.62x39 lethality out of the 5.56.

I work daily with Marines and have talked with several that have personal experience with putting a round in the chest of an insurgent that didn't take them out.
"Everyone I shot was done"
This came from my highly decorated (including purple heart) friend with over 127 kills.
I have shot several deer with it and they were gone before they hit the ground. Not to mention there millions of guys that don't know crap! They shoot once a year and know it all! The M855 and M193 are far more devastating then a 7.62x39fmj internal ballistics fact. Say what you want put getting caught in open field or past 300 yards the AR is far more effective. The real AK thats worth mentioning is the AK74 and 7n6 now that changes everything.
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  #366  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 1lostinspace View Post
"Everyone I shot was done"
This came from my highly decorated (including purple heart) friend with over 127 kills.
127 "known" kills?? Sounds like a sniper then and they AREN'T shooting 5.56. If not a sniper then either a sick puppy or a BS artist.

Quote:
I have shot several deer with it and they were gone before they hit the ground.
There's a reason 5.56 is NOT allowed for hunting large game in most places.

Quote:
Not to mention there millions of guys that don't know crap!
Yes indeed there are.

Quote:
The M855 and M193 are far more devastating then a 7.62x39fmj internal ballistics fact.
While green tip rounds are great for punching through barriers, absent such barriers they are great at punching neat little holes right through a bad guy. Each AK round has twice the bullet weight of the AR round with correspondingly greater affect.

Your expertise(?) aside, if it were indeed "ballistics fact" the military wouldn't STILL be spending millions of dollars upgrading the 5.56 round. With the latest iterations being the M855A1 and Mk318 SOST rounds.
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  #367  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:47 AM
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I prefer an AR type rifle chambered to support .300 blackout for all around

otherwise the 5.56 will do just fine. People who usually talks about the inadequate stopping power of 5.56 are usually hunters who hunts big game or a computer commando who's never shot a moving target.

This post is obviously about what's a better patrol and self defense rifle because if not then why limit to just these rifles and not add larger caliber semi auto rifle like the M1A.

so between the 2 against humanoid target, id take the AR15.
* carry more ammo
* more accurate followup shots


BUT.. if you only have 1 RIFLE with 1 BULLET..
then the AK47 without a doubt.
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  #368  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:26 PM
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*IF* I can choose the setup... then...

Piston AR-15 with a 20 inch chrome barrel, 1:8 twist with heavy grain nossler rounds.

Accuracy, stopping power and range.
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  #369  
Old 01-21-2014, 4:59 AM
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Get a SCAR 16/17 best of both worlds
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  #370  
Old 01-21-2014, 8:10 AM
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In a true stage 3 SHTF event AK all the way. We are talking red dawn, or post EMP... This is a place where cleaning supplies would be a dream and not reality. We would be using oil from abandoned cars. That is not an environment that I would like to have an AR. Taking the time to clean your weapon means that you are not going to be doing something else more important (yes a clean weapon is important, but so is food). Free time is a modern luxury. I would still try to keep an AK as clean as I could. Having the feasibility to know that it will work even if it is not clean is important. lastly, I want something that goes bang every stinking time.
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  #371  
Old 01-21-2014, 9:01 AM
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Originally Posted by arslin View Post
In a true stage 3 SHTF event AK all the way. We are talking red dawn, or post EMP... This is a place where cleaning supplies would be a dream and not reality. We would be using oil from abandoned cars. That is not an environment that I would like to have an AR. Taking the time to clean your weapon means that you are not going to be doing something else more important (yes a clean weapon is important, but so is food). Free time is a modern luxury. I would still try to keep an AK as clean as I could. Having the feasibility to know that it will work even if it is not clean is important. lastly, I want something that goes bang every stinking time.
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  #372  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:02 AM
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A few of each.
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  #373  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
One of the nice things about AKs is that my $300 Saiga will do everything that one will. Plus I don't have to use a BB.
You think a BB is staying on in a SHTF situation? If i do not have an Allen wrench, I am chewing that thing off with my teeth.

The stock Saiga is good, but I like the triger in the right place and having a AK mag without having to worry about 922R crap...
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  #374  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:48 PM
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If you live in CA and have to deal with CA laws you need to consider that. I did and I ended up selling my AK's and switched to the AR platform. Why? Bullet Buttons, and I haven't regretted my choice at all.

First you need to practice with your weapons or they are just a waste. If you are wealthy enough to have your own 1000 acre private retreat where you can keep your non compliant AK's without fear of LEO then good on you. Me? I live in the real world. I have to go to public shooting ranges and transport my guns in my car at times. Twice I've had LEO inspect my guns, so nice of them. What this means is that they MUST BE COMPLIANT or you risk losing them and your other "rights".

So this means that if you want an AK you need to deal with the AK compliant bullet button. And you know what, it sucks and sucks bad. The AR BB, at least mine, can be converted to a standard mag release with three turns of a screwdriver. So yes I switched over from being a long time AK owner because of this. And you know what, I don't miss the AK.

Here is what I have learned since switching camps.
1. My AR is a tack driver compared to my AK's.
2. My AR is light as a feather compared to my AK's.
3. My AR has been just as durable as my AK's
4. It's easier to get parts for the AR
5. It's easier to work on, it's like legos!
6. Women like using the AR better as well.
7. Optics work better on my AR. No stupid side mount.

One thing that you always hear about the AK is how reliable it is. Well I took one of my AR's out for a day of shooting. We shot quite a bit. The second I got home I got a call about a friend who had to go to the hospital I threw my rifle in the back of my safe and went to the hospital. Well Life being what it was, I kept saying I was going to get back to cleaning it and then out-of-sigh, out-of-mind, I kind of forgot about it. Ok, I kept thinking, oh crap I need to clean that rifle but other things came up, besides it was my cheapo build that I never really used. Then I thought, this will be a good test. So I let it sit, for two years!

I pulled it out, dry swabbed out the barrel and blew out the dust. Sprayed it with some quick organic oil lube and took it to the range. It shot all day with zero problems and it shot true. I could not believe it. It is a 20' bushmaster upper with heavy barrel. Nothing special or high end. Hell I picked it up used. Traded a Saiga 223 for it ;-)

AK's are great rifles but you can insure the same reliability in an AR.
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  #375  
Old 01-21-2014, 1:10 PM
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AK or AR ? what ever turns you on . Again the odds are most will be turning their rifles in to the gooberment before they will ever need them for SHTF.
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  #376  
Old 01-21-2014, 6:04 PM
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Imo and experience the ak is alot more reliable then any ar. Fact being that they never really malfunction like ars do when they aren't cleaned.the ak packs a bigger round and will shoot steel case with no problems no matter how many rounds you put trough it. The ar does have a advantage with the weight of the rifle and round speed though
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  #377  
Old 01-21-2014, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arslin View Post
You think a BB is staying on in a SHTF situation? If i do not have an Allen wrench, I am chewing that thing off with my teeth.

The stock Saiga is good, but I like the triger in the right place and having a AK mag without having to worry about 922R crap...
In the type of shtf situations we are MOST likely to encounter (earthquake NOT red dawn) the BB will in fact stay on, unless you feel that running around like Mad Max for a short period of time is worth the real possibility of giving-up-all-guns-forever when an LEO notices or you actually have to do more then wave the weapon around and police respond.

The trigger IS in the "right place"...for a rifle stocked Saiga and will kill the bad guy just as dead. You are MUCH more likely to encounter a problem concerning State-mandated BB rules in Cali then you are to ever run afoul of Federal 922R rules. Besides 922R compliance is very simple to achieve and doesn't neuter the rifle in the least.
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  #378  
Old 01-21-2014, 6:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex View Post
If you live in CA and have to deal with CA laws you need to consider that. I did and I ended up selling my AK's and switched to the AR platform. Why? Bullet Buttons, and I haven't regretted my choice at all.

First you need to practice with your weapons or they are just a waste. If you are wealthy enough to have your own 1000 acre private retreat where you can keep your non compliant AK's without fear of LEO then good on you. Me? I live in the real world. I have to go to public shooting ranges and transport my guns in my car at times. Twice I've had LEO inspect my guns, so nice of them. What this means is that they MUST BE COMPLIANT or you risk losing them and your other "rights".

So this means that if you want an AK you need to deal with the AK compliant bullet button. And you know what, it sucks and sucks bad. The AR BB, at least mine, can be converted to a standard mag release with three turns of a screwdriver. So yes I switched over from being a long time AK owner because of this. And you know what, I don't miss the AK.

Here is what I have learned since switching camps.
1. My AR is a tack driver compared to my AK's.
2. My AR is light as a feather compared to my AK's.
3. My AR has been just as durable as my AK's
4. It's easier to get parts for the AR
5. It's easier to work on, it's like legos!
6. Women like using the AR better as well.
7. Optics work better on my AR. No stupid side mount.

One thing that you always hear about the AK is how reliable it is. Well I took one of my AR's out for a day of shooting. We shot quite a bit. The second I got home I got a call about a friend who had to go to the hospital I threw my rifle in the back of my safe and went to the hospital. Well Life being what it was, I kept saying I was going to get back to cleaning it and then out-of-sigh, out-of-mind, I kind of forgot about it. Ok, I kept thinking, oh crap I need to clean that rifle but other things came up, besides it was my cheapo build that I never really used. Then I thought, this will be a good test. So I let it sit, for two years!

I pulled it out, dry swabbed out the barrel and blew out the dust. Sprayed it with some quick organic oil lube and took it to the range. It shot all day with zero problems and it shot true. I could not believe it. It is a 20' bushmaster upper with heavy barrel. Nothing special or high end. Hell I picked it up used. Traded a Saiga 223 for it ;-)

AK's are great rifles but you can insure the same reliability in an AR.
You go 2 years without shooting your rifle?
I'd say the best SHTF rifle is the one you practice with,regularly...

That's just me though. To each his own.
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  #379  
Old 01-21-2014, 6:28 PM
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http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t...ine-filthy-14/
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  #380  
Old 01-21-2014, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PaintItBlack View Post
"Behind cover? HA my AK laughs at your cover!"

I don't want to have to shoot my AR threw bushes and have it deflected by a leaf.
If a round can get through, then it isn't really good cover to begin with lol.
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  #381  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:18 PM
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Default shtf ak47 vs ar15???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
127 "known" kills?? Sounds like a sniper then and they AREN'T shooting 5.56. If not a sniper then either a sick puppy or a BS artist.


There's a reason 5.56 is NOT allowed for hunting large game in most places.


Yes indeed there are.


While green tip rounds are great for punching through barriers, absent such barriers they are great at punching neat little holes right through a bad guy. Each AK round has twice the bullet weight of the AR round with correspondingly greater affect.

Your expertise(?) aside, if it were indeed "ballistics fact" the military wouldn't STILL be spending millions of dollars upgrading the 5.56 round. With the latest iterations being the M855A1 and Mk318 SOST rounds.
BS artist? This guy has done more for our country then you will ever know! My expertise? Do your research.

Oh yeah and Steve this one is for you!!

http://youtu.be/PGgojSI62pI

Survive that!
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  #382  
Old 01-26-2014, 9:59 PM
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BS artist? This guy has done more for our country then you will ever know! My expertise? Do your research.
Yes a great hero that just happens to keep track of his body count. And even brags about it to you.

The only ones I know who do that are snipers (though they usually don't mention numbers to people) and like I said, they don't shoot 5.56 so his assertion has no bearing on the effectiveness of the 5.56.

"Research"? I guess you think the military doesn't know what it's doing either then huh? The simple FACT is that the military has been spending money on developing bigger/better rounds for the AR almost since it was adopted and even more so since Iraq/Afghanistan. That should convince even the DENSEST 5.56 fanboi that it's not the be-all-end-all round of their dreams.
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  #383  
Old 01-26-2014, 10:01 PM
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Default shtf ak47 vs ar15???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Yes a great hero that just happens to keep track of his body count. And even brags about it to you.

The only ones I know who do that are snipers (though they usually don't mention numbers to people) and like I said, they don't shoot 5.56 so his assertion has no bearing on the effectiveness of the 5.56.

"Research"? I guess you think the military doesn't know what it's doing either then huh? The simple FACT is that the military has been spending money on developing bigger/better rounds for the AR almost since it was adopted and even more so since Iraq/Afghanistan. That should convince even the DENSEST 5.56 fanboi that it's not the be-all-end-all round of their dreams.
Brag hm far from it.. Please dont disrespect my friend.
Lol come shoot with us
Your in 29 palms are you a Marine?
We shoot in 1000 palms about 45min away.
Your welcome to come blow off some rounds and get to know us better.
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  #384  
Old 01-26-2014, 10:24 PM
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Brag hm far from it.. Please dont disrespect my friend.
Lol come shoot with us
Your in 29 palms are you a Marine?
We shoot in 1000 palms about 45min away.
Your welcome to come blow off some rounds and get to know us better.
Sorry but I find it hard to swallow that his "non-bragging" includes telling you his body count.

A friend of mine won the Silver Star in a MOH action and he will barely talk about it except amongst the other guys (also Silver Star winners) who were in his platoon. I was lucky enough to meet them all once and they only opened up a bit due to my being a Marine as well.

Former Marine GySgt (17 yrs, out on a med) and thanks for the invite but with diesel at $4 a gallon I think I will just keep shooting at our local range which is 5 minutes away.

Look me up if in the neighborhood.
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  #385  
Old 01-26-2014, 10:39 PM
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Ok now in Mexico, it is SHTF and in Mexico it is very dirty conditions. When they travel in trucks all the dust is kicked up and it is pretty common for them to get into firefights with dust flying all over the place. Primarily weapons that I see in the struggle are AR15s and AK47s. So in my opinion, AR15s are reliable enough to get the job done. So in conclusion, either weapon is fine. And in the end it isn't what weapon you have rather what weapon you are more trained with. If you care about more power, then get a .300 blackout upper.
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  #386  
Old 01-26-2014, 10:47 PM
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Default shtf ak47 vs ar15???

Pm sent
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  #387  
Old 02-04-2014, 1:20 AM
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Ar because I can make it to fit my exact needs, I can swap out specialty uppers for the task at hand, ammo and parts are everywhere, light weight, and pretty damn accurate. I see this thread as more of what you are comfortable with. Ar's are more reliable than said to be and ak's are more accurate than said. Each talks down on the other weapon when they are both proven to be war stoppers.

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  #388  
Old 02-09-2014, 8:52 AM
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Let's see how many hits on steel at 400 from each???
I'd take you up on that bet with my Bulgarian AK74. 500 round, no cleaning, oiling & the most hits wins $500.00. LOL!

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Old 02-09-2014, 9:10 AM
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Maybe you can put your mighty ak up against an AR that ran 87,000 rds without cleaning. Look it up..........
I like this challenge... I've got an SGL that has never been cleaned and it's probable pushing +/- 6,000 rounds with no malfunctions or cleaning. But the big question would be was that AR15 OILED while shooting the 87,000 rounds?
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  #390  
Old 02-09-2014, 9:20 AM
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I'd take you up on that bet with my Bulgarian AK74. 500 round, no cleaning, oiling & the most hits wins $500.00. LOL!

Nice Bulgy' 74, is it Lancaster? Thanks.
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  #391  
Old 02-09-2014, 9:36 AM
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Nice Bulgy' 74, is it Lancaster? Thanks.
Thank you for the comment about my 74. But nope... I do not live anywhere where near Lancaster. Sorry.

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  #392  
Old 02-09-2014, 2:33 PM
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Took my Saiga out yesterday. Yup even AK still has issue. This Saiga Has less than 200 rounds. Trigger would not reset.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:22 PM
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I'll have to go with the AR, I have trained/carried/used it a whole lot more so I know it better than any other rifle out there. I have not seen any law enforcement or U.S. Military carrying any (issued)AK's around here.
So my decision is based on knowledge and experience with the weapon system and availability of ammo and spares. Also with a classic M4/M16A4 style and my uniforms (and a proper shave) I could get by as active duty.
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  #394  
Old 02-10-2014, 12:25 AM
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zack_trp1911 zack_trp1911 is offline
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I only shot an AK47 once. A buddy of mine had one. Let me shoot it at the local range. He loaded it up and all I did was fire away. I had no idea of how to load or place the mag/remove the mag etc.


But I've shot over 100k rounds through my ARs. I built them, repaired them, so I'm sticking with what I know.

If we lived in Afghanistan where the majority of enemies would be carrying the notorious ak47 or similar, you'd bet I'd learn that platform quickly.

I should maybe still familiarize myself with an ak anyway.

AR all the way for me...Merica!
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  #395  
Old 02-10-2014, 10:07 PM
Big bug Big bug is offline
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Default PISTON AR

Get a Piston AR and you get the best of both worlds....less dirty, doesn't heat up and more accurate than an AK.
As far as ammo...the MOD 1's were deadly effective in the sandbox out to 600-700 yards.
Plus where do we live? I think easier to find AR rounds and parts in the US after you go through your initial supply.
That being said....
I wouldn't trade my LWRC REPR or Steyr Scout.....
Not to mention...TAVOR or AUG.......
In those situations
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  #396  
Old 02-11-2014, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex View Post
Took my Saiga out yesterday. Yup even AK still has issue. This Saiga Has less than 200 rounds. Trigger would not reset.
Lex, bring it to our next meet and I will help you get it working the way it should be working.
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  #397  
Old 02-11-2014, 6:45 AM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zack_trp1911 View Post
I only shot an AK47 once. A buddy of mine had one. Let me shoot it at the local range. He loaded it up and all I did was fire away. I had no idea of how to load or place the mag/remove the mag etc.


But I've shot over 100k rounds through my ARs. I built them, repaired them, so I'm sticking with what I know.

If we lived in Afghanistan where the majority of enemies would be carrying the notorious ak47 or similar, you'd bet I'd learn that platform quickly.

I should maybe still familiarize myself with an ak anyway.

AR all the way for me...Merica!
It takes about 30 seconds for an illiterate peasant to figure out how to work an AK, so I'm sure you can EASILY get the hang of it.
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