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  #161  
Old 09-30-2015, 9:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboS600 View Post
That may be one of the stupidest things I have ever read from someone in the CCW subforum.

Then you should not carry at all. Anywhere. Ever.

You run the same risk of friendly fire when you are at the grocery store, the beach, the mall, Disneyland, the gas station, your insurance agent, the barber shop, the movie theater, your school, your kid's school...

You get the picture. Your rationale is flawed and, for me, is a non-starter for an argument against carrying at church. There have been multiple active shooter situations at churches. I'm Mormon and there was even a shooting at a Mormon Church in Utah a few years back.

NO PLACE IS SAFE. THERE ARE NO GUN FREE ZONES AS FAR AS THE PSYCHOS ARE CONCERNED. The only gun free zones are the ones designated by the crazies. And by crazies I mean the liberal, gun-grabbing, hoplophobic friends of the Brady Bunch.
I don't know where you live, but, do you carry at church? If so, do you know the views of the leaders (Ward/Stake) concerning CCW at church? I do know that in Utah they have it set up by law that all any church has to do to be a "No Gun Zone" is register with the state and it is then effective throughout the state....no signage on buildings! The Church is thus listed making all church building in the state GFZ. So, I'm not sure how any of that affects what is done in other states and as for local leadership views on CCW at church.

You have any first hand experience with any of the above where you worship? If you wish, we can further discuss this via PM.
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  #162  
Old 10-01-2015, 11:04 PM
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'Filled with hate': Witnesses say Oregon gunman targeted Christians in community college shooting
Now this wasn't a church, it wasn't even a Christian school, but it was a Gun Free Zone. The type of place I assume Gov. Brown will soon make all California schools.
This thread has had two basic questions. Do you carry at church? Does a church need armed security.
I think the South Carolina event and this event scream yes. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/02.../?intcmp=hpbt1
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  #163  
Old 10-02-2015, 5:30 AM
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I have carried at church since getting my CCW. My wife thought it was weird at first but eventually got used to the fact that my weapon just became a part of me and was with me everywhere. I have taken to carrying my LCP in my hip pocket rather than my XDS IWB because I had some old lady that I knew from when I was a kid come up and give me a hug one time and her hand hit the gun. I am not sure she realized what it was but she looked confused. I just pretended I didn't notice and she didn't say anything.

Earlier this year my cousin was ordained a priest. At the ordination, when I was going to communion and passing my hippy uncle who was further down the pew and not going up, he put his hand on my but right over my back pocket as if to push me past. He felt the LCP there and knew what it was. After mass he started grilling me about why I needed "to bring a weapon into a place of worship" and if I was a real Christian I would trust God to protect me I just responded to that last comment "God helps those that help themselves."

Shortly after, that church in the mid west was shot up and I emailed him a link to an article about it without anything else in the message.

In short, yes I carry because I feel like it is a place where you are an easy target and yes I feel that armed guards could be a good thing.
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  #164  
Old 10-19-2015, 7:41 PM
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http://www.nbcnews.com/video/pastor-...e-547104835536

Tough call.
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  #165  
Old 10-20-2015, 11:09 PM
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http://www.nbcnews.com/video/arsonis...s-547940931574

Church security - so far these attacks have been off hours, but history shows that may not last. One of these days there is going to be a person down on their luck using the church for shelter. Asking people to be out at night watching in these neighborhoods is asking a lot. We need to pray for the churches, and keep an eye on ours.
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  #166  
Old 10-24-2015, 9:04 PM
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I go to a small church. Been going there for about a year now. Over the course of that year I've come to learn that a significant number of the guys there carry, and I wouldn't be too surprised if their wives do also. Not because of any specific issue or need, but mostly because they can.

As a new CCW holder, wearing at church was where I was most comfortable while acclimating to the mental and physical process of carrying. Seems odd to me, but I am grateful I had that safe zone to experiment in.
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  #167  
Old 11-01-2015, 7:48 PM
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Every time without hesitation. I know for a fact my church has always had armed security and I don't think they try to hide it too well either. For those of who carry. It's easy to spot a bulge or someone walking guarded around crouds. My wife and I have made mental notes on the rotations.... it's a fun game...
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  #168  
Old 11-12-2015, 3:40 PM
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Defending the man of God and his family sometimes goes beyond he sanctuary. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/12...?intcmp=hplnws
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  #169  
Old 11-12-2015, 3:46 PM
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Even my wife carries at church.
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  #170  
Old 11-12-2015, 3:52 PM
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Why I carry at church-

From Lt Dave Grossman-

http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to slaughter you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, “I will never be caught without my gun in church.” I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a police officer he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas, in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down 14 people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy’s body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for “heads to roll” if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids’ school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them. Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”
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  #171  
Old 11-12-2015, 5:26 PM
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I am a Christian and a regular attender at church, I play with our worship team. IF, I could get a CCW in Los Angeles County I would carry in church. I am pretty sure I know at least two other members of our worship team who would probably carry in church too.
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  #172  
Old 11-12-2015, 7:18 PM
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Why the the distinction of carrying in church I carry in church for the same reson I carry to the store or anywere else that it is leagal to carry. I don't have a crystal ball to tell me when I will need my firearm . And the only way you will have a gun when you need it is to carry it all the time .
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  #173  
Old 12-16-2015, 8:00 PM
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Just as a note since I own a holster shop, I get calls of all kinds. Lot of calls lately from Churches and Synagogues that are concerned, or are beefing up their teams for their holiday events that draw people who don't normally attend.

Ralston mentioned Lt. Co. Dave Grossman, he will be in OC training on this subject in February.
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  #174  
Old 12-16-2015, 8:12 PM
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Absolutely! I always carry where legal, and church is never an exception. Sheep dogs are always ready.
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  #175  
Old 12-16-2015, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
Just as a note since I own a holster shop, I get calls of all kinds. Lot of calls lately from Churches and Synagogues that are concerned, or are beefing up their teams for their holiday events that draw people who don't normally attend.



Ralston mentioned Lt. Co. Dave Grossman, he will be in OC training on this subject in February.

Thx for the heads up. Where will Grossman be speaking?
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  #176  
Old 12-16-2015, 9:26 PM
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Thx for the heads up. Where will Grossman be speaking?
Artemis will be hosting at an offsite location. Not sure if it will be restricted to LEO and Key Church Security Officers, or open to the broader membership.

They tried to bring it together in November, but they were expecting more than 300, so location was the issue. Target is Presidents day, but not locked down per Sandy this morning.

I am hoping they do some other things with him well he is here.
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  #177  
Old 12-16-2015, 9:38 PM
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I try to carry anytime I am at church. There is no downside to carrying at church.
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  #178  
Old 12-16-2015, 9:50 PM
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Book: Evil Invades Sanctuary.... by a gentleman named Chinn
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  #179  
Old 12-16-2015, 10:14 PM
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Me and 3 others carry in the worship center every Sunday at my church.


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  #180  
Old 12-17-2015, 6:11 AM
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Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
Artemis will be hosting at an offsite location. Not sure if it will be restricted to LEO and Key Church Security Officers, or open to the broader membership.



They tried to bring it together in November, but they were expecting more than 300, so location was the issue. Target is Presidents day, but not locked down per Sandy this morning.



I am hoping they do some other things with him well he is here.

Copy.

They had asked me to help secure a location in November, but the venue I suggested required more notice.
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  #181  
Old 12-17-2015, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralston View Post
Why I carry at church-

From Lt Dave Grossman-

http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church. They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs. Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to slaughter you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, “I will never be caught without my gun in church.” I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a police officer he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas, in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down 14 people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy’s body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?”

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for “heads to roll” if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids’ school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them. Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, “Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?”
I know for a fact there were at least 5 guns in this Sundays service. Last night at the Christmas Pagent there were at least 6. That is just the people I know for a fact were carrying. 2 LEOs and the rest CCW. That does not include any LEO's and CCW's I am not privy too and does not include people who carry without.

For the most part the reason I know who is carrying is because I carry and because we hunt and shoot together. I'd bet there were at least 5 more I'm not aware of.
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  #182  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:51 PM
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So when carrying at church, or part of a church detail, it is important to remember first and foremost that a church is a place for the lost and broken, and those seeking God. If this happened in your church how would you react.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...ervice-n489456

http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/pastor-co...-the-infidels/
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  #183  
Old 01-04-2016, 7:36 PM
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1 year after receiving my CCW and I'm finally comfortable carrying EVERYWHERE. I carry every week at church. Carried to all my kids school functions while I could and which now I can't do...bite me CA. I have requested permission from the District Superintendent, but have not received a reply.
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  #184  
Old 01-04-2016, 7:41 PM
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Oh, and by the way, I just received my UT CCW and I will happily carry in every church service I ever attend in the 33 some states that honor my licenses
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  #185  
Old 01-19-2016, 12:48 PM
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Over the holidays, I attended a few functions and the ones who know, including the people in charge, were more than happy that I was there and packing some protection. They are well aware of what evil is out there and they have no misguided notion that it can't happen to them. They want me there as much as possible.
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  #186  
Old 02-05-2016, 11:06 PM
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Close Call - http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/05/us/det...rch/index.html
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  #187  
Old 02-06-2016, 8:42 AM
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I didn't realize CNN was still around, their ratings are below the local news except during a crisis.

Seriously, churches are not only not a refuge from violence, they are a soft target today.
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  #188  
Old 02-06-2016, 8:44 AM
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Since my church has a school on the grounds, as of January 1, carrying came to a screeching halt. Thank you, California legislators. Why is common sense so uncommon in CA

Last edited by KR_H; 02-07-2016 at 1:56 PM..
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  #189  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:12 AM
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Since my church has a school on the grounds, as of January 1, carrying came to a screeching halt. Thank you, California legislators. Why is common sense to uncommon in CA
If the school is private they can give you written permission to carry. Many churches have security details, and welcome CCWs. Some don't. Most of the churches around me are cool with it. In fact many will have their lead security officer at an upcoming training session with Lt. Col. Grossman. Might be worth asking.
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  #190  
Old 02-09-2016, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
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Since my church has a school on the grounds, as of January 1, carrying came to a screeching halt. Thank you, California legislators. Why is common sense so uncommon in CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
If the school is private they can give you written permission to carry. Many churches have security details, and welcome CCWs. Some don't. Most of the churches around me are cool with it. In fact many will have their lead security officer at an upcoming training session with Lt. Col. Grossman. Might be worth asking.
The Pastor ran it by the attorney, and her comment was, "Have her leave it at home," to which he replied, "That's easy for you to say sitting here in your office."

Not sure what (if anything) will come of this and/or how much further he'll pursue this, but the roadblocks seem almost insurmountable at times.
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  #191  
Old 02-09-2016, 1:43 PM
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Default So, does anyone carry at church?

Pastor comments about gun free churches: http://wwmt.com/news/local/local-pas...ng-of-the-past

And:

Alleged ISIS Plotter Said He Planned to Target Detroit Church Where Guns ‘Not Allowed’

http://truthinmedia.com/alleged-isis...s-not-allowed/
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  #192  
Old 02-09-2016, 1:49 PM
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Are you a sheep, a sheepdog, or a wolf? If you're a sheepdog, then carry all the time!

I do.
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  #193  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:18 PM
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Ongoing proof that nowhere is safe from violence...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/28...ntcmp=trending
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  #194  
Old 02-28-2016, 12:23 PM
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Ongoing proof that nowhere is safe from violence...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/28...ntcmp=trending
Damn

Is nothing sacred anymore?
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  #195  
Old 02-28-2016, 2:45 PM
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Damn

Is nothing sacred anymore?
Nothing that is truly sacred is...
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  #196  
Old 03-02-2016, 9:30 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/03/02...?intcmp=hplnws

Not new, but the new normal.
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  #197  
Old 03-02-2016, 9:56 PM
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I do, but you said it's a Catholic church, and the pope is an anti...

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Old 03-04-2016, 7:58 AM
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I do. My primary reason for getting my CCW was to protect my family. Considering that we attend Church together it is a no brainer. I prefer pocket carry as a dealing with a wiggly toddler can put you in a variety of bending over, and contortionist positions.

Church's are a very soft target in theory, I refuse to be a victim or let my family be harmed by some pos.
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Old 03-04-2016, 4:39 PM
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We, in the bay area, are not so lucky. Both the San Francisco Diocese and Oakland Diocese have long history of disallowing carrying any weapons unless you are LEO on active duty. If the church shares properties with a school, you can forget about asking them for permission to carry.

http://www.diocal.org/pcn/DioNews/le...nce-resolution

http://www.oakdiocese.org/offices/hu...ponsPolicy.pdf
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Old 03-05-2016, 7:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j6p2004 View Post

We, in the bay area, are not so lucky.

Both the San Francisco Diocese and Oakland Diocese have long history of disallowing carrying any weapons unless you are LEO on active duty. If the church shares properties with a school, you can forget about asking them for permission to carry.

http://www.diocal.org/pcn/DioNews/le...nce-resolution

http://www.oakdiocese.org/offices/hu...ponsPolicy.pdf
You could of stopped at, "We, in the bay area, are not so lucky"...

It used to be a wonderful place.

My parents met there and they loved going there to the end...

I stopped enjoying my visits decades ago.
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