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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 05-24-2019, 11:56 PM
giaking70 giaking70 is offline
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Default Ccw encounters with LEO's

Good evening everyone,
I am new here and this is my first post, so go easy on me. I live in San Diego and I just got my ccw approved and I pick it up May 29th. I first wanna say, I am not new to firearms, been around them my whole life, I just turned 49yrs old May 4th.
I also wanna say to all you walking the thin blue line, deep respect and deep respect where it is given. With that being said, I would like some of you to clarify for me what to expect during a ccw law enforcement encounter. Now, for the sake of this example, lets just say that for some reason, my firearm got exposed unintentionally while at Walmart and some liberal calls the police on me and I am stopped.
I do what is instructed by the officers and I will assume I will be placed in handcuffs.
I inform the officers that I am a ccw holder and my permit is in my wallet and that the firearm I am carrying is listed on my permit. The officer checks and verify that it is.
Here is where my question is...now is the officer gonna release me and give me my firearm back immediately or is he/she gonna take my firearm and walk away with it to check to see if its "hot"? The problem I would have is that very thing, walking away with my firearm as that now would constitute as an unlawful search and seizure when the serial number is printed clearly on the permit. I mean, if that firearms make, model and serial number are on the permit, what is there the need for checking to see if it's been stolen. Is this gonna happen and if so, is there a complaint warranted? Not here to be one of those 2nd amendment audit guys but I think that would be wrong for any leo to do. Can anyone shed some light on this, sorry for it being long.
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:04 AM
ErikC12 ErikC12 is offline
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I don't see it going down that way. He'll verify that the weapon is on the permit and that the permit is valid. Those two actions already verify that it isn't stolen, though he may call the serial number in to be run, which as I understand, is perfectly legal. They are also permitted to secure the weapon for the duration of the encounter, officer safety don't ya know. The whole thing wouldn't take long, and then your weapon would be returned and you'd be sent on your way. Then you have to report the LE contact to your IA as requiered. Overall, it would be a relativly minor inconvienence.
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  #3  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:13 AM
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sfpcservice sfpcservice is offline
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I wondering why you'd even still be there when the cops arrived? You didn't commit a crime, no reason to stick around.
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  #4  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:18 AM
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I haven’t come across a CCW holder.

In your scenario, I would have already researched your car and you prior to the making the vehicle stop. I would probably already have knowledge that you’re a possible permit holder and almost definitely that you own firearms. It would depend on a few factors whether we conduct a felony vehicle stop or not. I don’t think I would, but it’s a dynamic situation.

Once you’re ID’ed, valid permit, and matches the firearm, I’d apologize, explain what happened, and send you on your way.

If there were claims of threats with the gun, brandishing, etc., then I’d have to do a little more investigating with your statement, their statement, surveillance footage, etc., etc.

I’ve contacted people on their homes that told me their safe was open or their gun was on the desk, etc. I just tell them ok. Just don’t reach for it or I slyly position them further away from the gun so I’m closer. You get a good read on people after a while. I’m pro 2A and my safe is always open in my house or I’m carrying on my hip. I do my best to respect that as well in other peoples’ homes while still having good officer safety.
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  #5  
Old 05-25-2019, 7:22 AM
esy esy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfpcservice View Post
I wondering why you'd even still be there when the cops arrived? You didn't commit a crime, no reason to stick around.
Because if someone is that freaked out by the fact that someone is carrying, they may very well follow and provide a vehicle description and plate.

Then again, I would hope the permit holder would have suspected something weird going on and made a call to LE to explain themselves or what not.
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  #6  
Old 05-25-2019, 9:26 AM
Frank1911 Frank1911 is offline
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Most cops in general are not gun guys. So what, if the cop takes your gun to his car instead of writing the serial number down to ensure it's not stolen. At the end of the day, if you didn't do anything wrong (and in your scenario, you didn't) so your firearm will be returned, just like your driver's license. No harm, no foul.

CCW's are not that common, and the people that have them and actually get stopped is less common. It make take the officer a few minutes to figure out the ccw paperwork/card you presented is legitimate. In today's times, just about anything can be duplicated.

If you've ever have been a victim of burglary and your gun was stolen, you'd be glad that the officer checked the gun's serial number, regardless.

Just my .02



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  #7  
Old 05-25-2019, 1:06 PM
Yodaman Yodaman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank1911 View Post
Most cops in general are not gun guys. So what, if the cop takes your gun to his car instead of writing the serial number down to ensure it's not stolen. At the end of the day, if you didn't do anything wrong (and in your scenario, you didn't) so your firearm will be returned, just like your driver's license. No harm, no foul.

CCW's are not that common, and the people that have them and actually get stopped is less common. It make take the officer a few minutes to figure out the ccw paperwork/card you presented is legitimate. In today's times, just about anything can be duplicated.

If you've ever have been a victim of burglary and your gun was stolen, you'd be glad that the officer checked the gun's serial number, regardless.

Just my .02



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Nailed it.

If the Officer takes it to car to check number on MDT, no big deal, your already there.

Itís not a seizure of your property. He has the right verify the guns legitimacy. Better than writing number and a notepad and leaving the gun with you. No offense, but he doesnít know you.


Plus you probably have to report all LE contacts to the CCW IA. Better a positive one than a negative right I would think.




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  #8  
Old 05-25-2019, 3:40 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giaking70 View Post
Good evening everyone,
I am new here and this is my first post, so go easy on me. I live in San Diego and I just got my ccw approved and I pick it up May 29th. I first wanna say, I am not new to firearms, been around them my whole life, I just turned 49yrs old May 4th.
I also wanna say to all you walking the thin blue line, deep respect and deep respect where it is given. With that being said, I would like some of you to clarify for me what to expect during a ccw law enforcement encounter. Now, for the sake of this example, lets just say that for some reason, my firearm got exposed unintentionally while at Walmart and some liberal calls the police on me and I am stopped.
I do what is instructed by the officers and I will assume I will be placed in handcuffs.
I inform the officers that I am a ccw holder and my permit is in my wallet and that the firearm I am carrying is listed on my permit. The officer checks and verify that it is.
Here is where my question is...now is the officer gonna release me and give me my firearm back immediately or is he/she gonna take my firearm and walk away with it to check to see if its "hot"? The problem I would have is that very thing, walking away with my firearm as that now would constitute as an unlawful search and seizure when the serial number is printed clearly on the permit. I mean, if that firearms make, model and serial number are on the permit, what is there the need for checking to see if it's been stolen. Is this gonna happen and if so, is there a complaint warranted? Not here to be one of those 2nd amendment audit guys but I think that would be wrong for any leo to do. Can anyone shed some light on this, sorry for it being long.
No offense but I don't think you have the concept of unlawful search and seizure down. Since in your scenario taking custody of the firearm to run the serial number is neither. What it is is a lawful detention, and investigation.

I'm going to bet that everyone here who has ever worked patrol know's the one guy in the department, who is under the impression he get paid by the word on the radio. It's usually ends up being faster just to do it yourself on the MDT, then to wait for him to shut up so you can do what you need to do.

Either way you're going to be there the entire time. I can't speak for everyone but I sure as hell would not have handed you back your gun in the middle of the store, and have some snowflake with twisted panties screaming at me that I gave you your gun back.
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Old 05-25-2019, 4:53 PM
GizmoSD GizmoSD is offline
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How about this:

Step 1. Make sure your gun doesnít get accidentally exposed.

If step 1 is FUBAR, have an overtly cooperative attitude and go with the program. After all, the only reason you're all dealing with it is because your gun made an appearance when it shouldnít have.

Iíve stopped/encountered a few folks with CCWís. Some were out of state licenses, too. They were mostly incredibly cooperative and went with the flow. Made my job, and decision, much easier.

I recall a radio call where an RP saw a guy remove a pistol from a vehicle center console and place it in a shoulder holster. We got there, found guy, and he was incredibly uncooperative. Ended up as a pedestrian hot stop. He had a ccw. Key word, had.

Remember, you swore you were of good moral character and law abiding. Read 148(a)1 PC. A cop has an obligation to thoroughly investigate a call.

Stay off the radar, but if you screw up and become a ďblipĒ the have a cooperative attitude and go with the flow.
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2019, 6:06 PM
giaking70 giaking70 is offline
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Thanks for your replies everyone, was trying to get a feel for this and I have no intention of making a encounter with law enforcement any more difficult then to just let the officers do their job. I just wanted to get some insights on what may happen. I dont intend to make anyone's life miserable as I just wanna enjoy knowing I can keep myself and my family safe and hope I dont have to use my firearm in doing so. Thanks guys for your responses, really appreciate it and be safe out there...
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2019, 12:20 PM
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Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfpcservice View Post
I wondering why you'd even still be there when the cops arrived? You didn't commit a crime, no reason to stick around.
Other LEO's may disagree, but this is my take: If there has been some sort of disturbance or incident that warranted a call for service, waiting at the scene allows the OP to articulate the incident to the officer in his own words.

If the OP leaves, though clearly in his right to do so, the information given by the complainant will be entirely one sided. While the OP may have simply opted to leave, the narrative will likely sound more like a situation where he knew the police were coming and he fled.

If the PD follows up with the OP later at his residence, he will probably be asked why he did not stick around. The legal right to leave the store isn't up for debate, but it can generate suspicion.
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Old 05-27-2019, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Other LEO's may disagree, but this is my take: If there has been some sort of disturbance or incident that warranted a call for service, waiting at the scene allows the OP to articulate the incident to the officer in his own words.

If the OP leaves, though clearly in his right to do so, the information given by the complainant will be entirely one sided. While the OP may have simply opted to leave, the narrative will likely sound more like a situation where he knew the police were coming and he fled.

If the PD follows up with the OP later at his residence, he will probably be asked why he did not stick around. The legal right to leave the store isn't up for debate, but it can generate suspicion.
Yup.

Only other possible reason to leave is if OP truly didnít know a call was generated about him.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:59 PM
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I’ve run across a couple. The politest, easiest people to work with on traffic stops. Usually goes something like ‘hey I have my CCW with me’ “cool, where is it at?” ‘Here is my dl/reg/ins, CCW, etc hey I’m sorry i rolled that stop sign’. Inspect the CCW at the window, run the dl for the usual right there via radio, and then bs with the driver waiting for the return. If all is kosher and I don’t see anything that raises my suspicion of further issues, cut them lose with a warning
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:16 PM
giaking70 giaking70 is offline
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So, if I am at the local freak show (aka) Walmart and I accidentally expose my firearm without intentions or unbeknownst to me, and I leave not knowing that and someone calls the police and say they follow me and get my license plate and follow up at my residence...how does that garner suspicion when there was no intention? Not trying to stir the pot, but just curious...
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Old 05-29-2019, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giaking70 View Post
So, if I am at the local freak show (aka) Walmart and I accidentally expose my firearm without intentions or unbeknownst to me, and I leave not knowing that and someone calls the police and say they follow me and get my license plate and follow up at my residence...how does that garner suspicion when there was no intention? Not trying to stir the pot, but just curious...
Thatís what an investigation is for.
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Old 05-29-2019, 4:58 PM
GizmoSD GizmoSD is offline
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I think weíre spinning gears here.

If you accidentally rear end someone, itís your fault.

If you accidentally discharge a round, itís still your fault.

If you accidentally run over a dog, itís your fault.

In the scenario you repeatedly reference, what you seem to be missing is the fact that you accidentally expose your gun. That would be a lapse in your own personal awareness. Your fault. Youíre going to be carrying a gun now. Youíre going to change how you dress, change how you reach down to pick things up (bend your knees, not your waist), change where and how you stand, etc. if you donít, thatís your fault. Carrying a gun isnít all fun and games, itís quite a responsibility and it requires you to change some of the ways you do things. Iíve been carrying a gun for a long time and Iíve never accidentally exposed mine. Do your part and make sure accidents don't happen, itís that easy.

If an accident happens (which happens, Iíve responded to a few) then be mellow and go with the flow.
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Old 05-30-2019, 5:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giaking70 View Post
So, if I am at the local freak show (aka) Walmart and I accidentally expose my firearm without intentions or unbeknownst to me, and I leave not knowing that and someone calls the police and say they follow me and get my license plate and follow up at my residence...how does that garner suspicion when there was no intention? Not trying to stir the pot, but just curious...
Sounds like you didnt display it in a rude or threatening manner, so you didnt 'brandish' per PC 417. If you didnt end up in cuffs you dont have anything to worry about.
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