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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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#1
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How much ammo do you carry off duty?
When off the clock, how many rounds do you usually carry for everyday CCW on your person? Do you also store extra ammo in your vehicle?
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000. |
#3
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As a newbie CCW guy experimenting with different weapons, holsters, magazines, speed loaders/strips and pouches I am absorbing a ton of data every day. So I am trying to determine where the balance point is between being undergunned and overgunned...that's all. Since receiving my card I have learned I know nothing and am trying to accelerate my education. I believe I have erased my "tells" and developed a healthy respect for observation and situational awareness. I have also found carrying has completely changed my approach to people in public. Nowhere near as flip or curt as I used to be. I don't think I have ever been so polite. <g> But am do wonder how much is enough. Perhaps when I attend my first 4 day handgun course at Frontsight they will address this.
PS: On a more personal note, prior to getting my card I never fully appreciated the immense risks you LEOs take for the rest of us. There is no sufficient thank you great enough to express the gratitude and respect I have for you guys who place yourselves between us and the arseholes. God Bless You!
__________________
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000. Last edited by BC9696; 01-01-2017 at 6:28 PM.. |
#5
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My comfort level will come from knowing I am adequately prepared for any likely threat...something that only training and more training will provide. That said, selecting between my G22 and LCR based on where I am going and what I am wearing and doing is one thing, but I had to learn the hard way how much water to pack on long hunting trips. I ran out of water twice...never again. If I run out of ammo in a fight I'm probably not have a chance to repeat that mistake. So there must be a reasonable number right? 10-15? 15-20? 20-30? I'm leaning towards 20-30. If it feels too heavy I suppose I can go on a diet and burn some fat.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000. Last edited by BC9696; 01-01-2017 at 7:48 PM.. |
#6
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Usually 9+1 or 10+1 in my G27, depending on clothing. If I'm going to a higher-risk target area (mall, movie theater, etc) I'll grab another mag and throw it in my front pocket. That could be a 9rd or 15rd. I'm a thin guy so I can't effectively conceal a 2nd mag under a t-shirt.
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#7
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Congrats on the CCW!
As for an amount of ammunition, Some cops are worried about giving away carry secrets, but since I change what I carry so often, I'm not giving away any big secrets. Further... I don't really think it matters that much. This year has seen some significant changes in my department policy. With the approval of Glocks and 1911s, I now have a lot of choice in what I carry. In my career I've carried everything (talking off-duty) from a Beretta 92FS, S&W 4506, HK USP45, and now a full-size 1911 to smaller guns like a S&W Shield and most recently an HK USP9C. Honestly, most of the time capacity isn't the biggest issue for me. I carried the USP9C because I like the ergonomics and manipulations, especially since I carry a 1911 when in the field most of the time now. I tried carrying a compact 1911, but while I'm going to try some different holsters, it's just not comfortable for me. I've also become a big fan of Glocks and I love my G19. I've been shooting it, testing reliability and accuracy under stress, as well as carry methods. I'll be cleaning it tomorrow and starting on Tuesday it will be my main off-duty gun... but I'm also picking up a G26 on Friday (I won it shooting the G19) and we'll see if I like it more or less. Lastly, when I wake up and put on my pants, a Ruger LCP goes in my right front pocket. It's there all day while at home, away, etc., until I go to bed. It's pretty much always there. I always carry something bigger when out and about, but the Ruger is also always there. Whatever I'm carrying, I have a spare magazine. If I'm carrying my 1911s, I'll have 8 or 9 in the gun (depending) and another 7 or 8, so 15 or so total. Same for some of the smaller guns. If I'm carrying my Glock 19, we're talking 31 rounds. So what is better? First, having "a" gun is better. Capacity is irrelevant if the gun isn't there. Second, most of the time high-capacity isn't needed. Reloads aren't needed. Round count is low and things happen fast. Third, if you need more than 15 rounds, your Shield with a single spare won't save you. If you need more than 31 rounds, your Glock 19 won't save you. No one can determine what number is "enough" or "too much", but I can say that 0 will definitely be too little if any amount of gunfire is needed... So refer back to rule #1 and then do what feels comfortable to you. I know people who carry a full-size M&P9 with two spares and an X300 Ultra weapon-light off duty. If I'm ever in a mall when terrorists attack I hope they're with me. If they're not, I'm confident with what I have. |
#8
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Quote:
But I was an Eagle Scout so I tend to Be Prepared.
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#9
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Very helpful...thanks!
__________________
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000. |
#10
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By the way, congrats on your CCW. As far as I am concerned, the more responsible armed "good guys" there are out there the better. I am of a similar mind as SoCaDep in that I have gone through many phases on and off duty.
As a rule of thumb, one reload should always be a bare minimum. In warmer weather, I often carry my Ruger LCR with two spare speed strips for a total of 12 spare rounds. They make for slower reloads but it is not feasible to carry loose speed loaders in one's pocket. With any semi-auto, at least one spare magazine. Having just recently gotten into Glocks, I now have a 17, 19, and a 26. I finally understand now all the hype now regarding the Glock 19 as a perfect blend of concealability and firepower. |
#11
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I used to get all crazy with how many magazines off duty etc I should carry. Sometimes I even carried two guns off duty when I was young and full of piss & vinegar. That was many moons ago though and I chuckle at myself about that. Heck, at one time I even thought that the "9 vs 40 vs 45" debate even mattered, only to find out that it really didn't.
Off duty I went from a 92F plus two mags on a shoulder rig, to a smaller 6906 and two magazines, to a Beretta 8045 with one mag, to a USP 45 and no spare mags, to an Hk P2000sk with the smaller mag (10 rounder vs 13), to a once or twice time of carrying a Colt Detecive Special (6-rounds) plus one speedy loader. Once in a while, ill carry a spare mag for the P2000sk, but it depends where or what I'm doing and what type of clothing I'm wearing to hide the gun. This is typically my daily off duty driver now and has been for about 9 years. I like a gun that fits in my pants pocket comfortably while off duty. For vacations within the USA involving airlines, ill travel with an air weight 5-shot snub nose .38 with a speedy loader or two. This is my preferred "Hawaii" cargo shorts and flip-flop gun, because I'd rather lose that little light weight gun in airline travel than any one of my more expensive semi-autos. I've never felt "outgunned" with this combo (+2 speedy loaders) and while traveling outa state. Hell, most cops I know don't even take a gun outa state while traveling by air, which I've never understood. That being said, I've NEVER carried a 5-shot WITHOUT the addition of a speedy loader or two. I personally know two co-workers that got into separate shoot outs off duty and had zero reloads after their 5 only rounds in the gun were used. Not good. Around the house while on the couch in front of the TV or tinkering in the garage and whatnot, it's my Colt .380 "Pocketlight" or a Beretta .32acp "Tomcat" without a spare mag in the pocket. If Plan-A doesn't seem to work, I'll revert to Plan-B: Benelli scattergun or an evil RAW.
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It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs -ΙΧΘΥΣ <>< Last edited by TrailerparkTrash; 01-24-2017 at 11:17 AM.. |
#12
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I ordered some belt attachments to hold 1-2 magazines, speed strips and speedloaders...I will try em out in the coming week. I'm pushing 60, have zero superhero tendancies and figure if 98% of all LEOs can go through their career w/o firing their weapon in self defense, so can I. But I also realize I am no longer the intimidating figure I once was and found myself in a very uncomfortable situation when passing through a parking structure one night. I was taking my wife out to a nice dinner and a movie in SJC and five young GB-looking punks were looking at her big Louie bag, jewelry and our watches and I realized they were sizing us up as prey. I stopped and stared hard at em and they walked off. It was then I began to seriously consider a CCW application but since then I have learned so much that I never considered beforehand. It's life altering. Head on a swivel (as you guys noted), total change of wardrobe (jeans and untucked plaid shirt) and sometimes I just drive by the Post Office w/o emptying my mailbox cuz of the guys standing around outside. I wish everyone carried...I think we'd all be safer and our society would be much more polite. I thank you for your insights and helping me balance out my carry options. If ever called upon...I got yer back. Hopefully we can get things back on track under Trump and put an end to this war on cops. You guys have big brass balls. Thanks for serving.
__________________
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some. The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000. The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000. Last edited by BC9696; 01-02-2017 at 9:49 AM.. |
#17
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When I first hired on back in the mid 70s, I carried a 5 shot snubbie off duty. This was due to how strict my former dept. was back then. We could carry a Colt or S&W back then and I can't recall if Ruger was also permitted. That was it.
Once we went to the 92F in late 89/90, I still carried the 5 shot since the only semi they allowed off duty was the Cougar, not the smaller Mini Cougar mind you. I never did figure that out. I continued to carry the Smith revolver until I retired in '03. I also carried one speed loader in another pocket. Once free from dept. rules, I went to the XDSC 9mm and carried it exclusively until I bought the 9mm Shield a couple of years ago. I carried/carry one extra mag and still use dept. issued ammo. I switched to the Shield due to comfort and concealability, tho I still occasionally carry the XD. In fact, there were times while driving or walking, I'd panic and had to check (unobtrusively of course while walking) to ascertain if was carrying the XD. Sometimes I didn't know it was there and sometimes it was uncomfortable. Go figure. I rarely didn't carry off duty and it was usually because of where I was going or the type of function (i.e. beach, pool party). I know it's everyone's choice, but I never understood why some of the leos I worked with didn't carry off duty. In today's climate I would understand it less. Be safe everyone, on or off duty. |
#18
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Gratz on the CCW...Remember to use your head before your gun...Situational awareness is great but don't cross into paranoia.
EDC for me is a Glock 43; 8+1 and 1 extra mag. Once in a while, Glock 19 with 1 extra mag if where I am going calls for it. |
#22
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I used to carry a G27 and sometimes an extra mag. I found that it was hard to hide for me. Its kinda hard carrying a Glock of any size wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
Now, I carry my old very well used S&W .38 hammerless with one speed loader or my LCP with an extra mag. I always have a reload. I also have a few extra speed loaders and mags in my vehicle at all times for both guns. |
#23
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Quote:
10+1 of 45 with 13 round spare mags is hard to beat in a ccw setup. I moved from the 5 shot airweight to a Glock 42 for when I'm going running or need to pack light. I can do 25 yard headshots with the g42 without too much fuss. I found the airweight hard to shoot well past 15 yards. |
#24
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Ls2monaro,
Glocks just don't work for me. I do agree, your set up is hard to beat. Thank goodness we have the ability to choose what guns work for each other. For what it's worth, I can shoot my old wheel gun as fast and more accurately then any of my autos. I have a lot of rounds down range with it. |
#25
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Whatever the smallest gun I'm carrying that day holds. Usually a 7 round LCP. I hate to have my pants falling down and in nearly 3 decades of carrying in my home town where I've worked, I've not had any off-duty shooting incidents. Several armed responses / arrests, but no discharges needed. I avoid the ****ty parts of town and always have my head on a swivel.
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#28
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I skimmed through the prior posts and didn't see this mentioned so I'll throw it out there.
It's a healthy reminder that the majority of encounters that end with the defensive use of a firearm, either civilian or OIS, use less than one magazine of ammo. However, the purpose of carrying at least one extra magazine is not just about having more ammo should you expire a whole magazine. It's equally important to have an extra mag for the purpose of clearing a malfunction, should it occur. If you have a malfunction: tap, rack, but no bang - Now you have to strip the magazine, rack rack rack, reinsert the magazine. If you have only one magazine, then you need to worry about either picking the mag up of the ground or retaining it when you strip it. Much easier to just strip it, letting it fall to the ground, rack rack rack, then insert a fresh magazine. This also insures that if the malfunction was the result of a defective magazine, you aren't putting the problem back in the gun.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." - Theodore Roosevelt |
#29
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27 rounds +P 45acp, 9 rounds +P 9mm, 140 rounds of 556, 6 1 oz slugs with 4 00-buck
__________________
"Bruen, the Bruen opinion, I believe, discarded the intermediate scrutiny test that I also thought was not very useful; and has, instead, replaced it with a text history and tradition test." Judge Benitez 12-12-2022 NRA Endowment Life Member, CRPA Life Member GLOCK (Gen 1-5, G42/43), Colt AR15/M16/M4, Sig P320, Sig P365, Beretta 90 series, Remington 870, HK UMP Factory Armorer Remington Nylon, 1911, HK, Ruger, Hudson H9 Armorer, just for fun! I instruct it if you shoot it. |
#30
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G19 on and off duty EDC. Usually 15+1 and a spare mag of 17. On duty it's 76 rounds on my person, possibly more depending on the day/operation.
__________________
Certified Colt 1911 Armorer // Certified Glock Armorer // Certified M&P Armorer
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#31
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I'm not an LEO but... 1) There's no such thing as "enough" or "too much" IMO... I don't think anyone - LEO or not - would ever be thankful they left an extra mag or two at home should you find yourself in a gunfight. I can't imagine saying "Man, I'm glad I spared myself the weight"! 2) I carry 8, 7-round mags for my 1911. I carry in a backpack, so it's really no big deal. I've always been one for overkill, and I believe that 2 spare mags should be a minimum for EDC CCW, particularly with the very real threat of terrorism; bad guys nowadays aren't just muggers & robbers. As I started stacking 2, 3, 4 mags into my bag, I just thought why the heck not, and filled up this 8-mag pouch I bought years ago from LA Police Gear. Especially once we started getting all these terror attacks. Can't beat the peace of mind. And there's no reason all your mags have to be on-body; if you carry any sort of bag or briefcase, even if you carry on-body, there's no reason you can't stuff a few extra mags into your bag. 3) I just went on a ride-along with my local Sheriff. Long story short, we were involved in a high-speed pursuit and I witnessed some crazy stuff. Your closing remark couldn't be more on the money. I have such a deeper, more profound & renewed respect & appreciation for our LEOs now that I personally witnessed what they go through, it isn't funny. If you haven't gone on a ride-along, you simply must. No question. I now believe it should be required as a civic duty, just like jury duty. . |
#33
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If im carrying my G21 then I have 13+1. If its the Airweight then 5 rounds. The way I see it, if I need to reload while off duty and not wearing body armor, something is wrong. I'd try and stick to being a good witnessm
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#34
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You are forced to use your weapon off-duty, you pull the trigger once, bang, but the threat is still up. You pull the trigger a second time, click. You tap the mag, rack the slide, then pull again, click. You lock the slide to rear, drop the mag, but in the heat of the moment, you let it fall to the ground and goes skittering over the pavement. Maybe it's dark and that black mag is no where to be seen. You just shot at some body once, he/she likely knows, and now for all intense and purposes, you're out of ammo. As I commented in an earlier post, the extra mag isn't just to have more ammo if you run out, but to make sure you can stay in the fight if you have a malfunction. For me, a few more ounces on the belt our in my back pocket is a small sacrifice to make.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." - Theodore Roosevelt Last edited by omgwtfbbq; 01-24-2017 at 11:41 AM.. |
#35
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#37
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You cant go wrong carrying extra ammo, however i choose not to because my pockets already full enough. Last edited by Atomic Donut; 01-25-2017 at 7:18 AM.. |
#39
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Winter carry....Glock 43 with a TTI +1 basepad. I sometimes carry a spare mag. I am looking hard at carrying my 26 too. It really depends on where I'm going. My mindset has changed now that I'm retired. I am now very reluctant to get get involved other than being a witness.
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#40
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Glock 19
When I was new I only carried what was in the gun....figuring nothing bad would ever happen. After some years on the job with on and off duty experiences to learn from I now carry an extra magazine at all times. Not only does it provide you with additional ammunition but it can also serve as a method to fix a hard/bad malfunction. |
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