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  #1  
Old 04-30-2014, 4:15 PM
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Default Know The Enemy of Liberty: the National Rifle Association

With the release of the first episode of the Defending Our America series titled “Know Your Enemies and Know Yourself” the National Rifle Association (NRA) puts itself at the forefront of the shills for tyranny and empire. Please watch the first episode and the season preview.

http://theinternationallibertarian.b...nal-rifle.html
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2014, 4:35 PM
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wut?
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2014, 4:38 PM
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I'm all for legalizing all sort of drugs, but dang....
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Old 04-30-2014, 4:41 PM
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Riiiiiight
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Old 04-30-2014, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
I'm all for legalizing all sort of drugs, but dang....
The issue is the govt's ability to oppress. If they have that power it will be abused. That's the whole point of my article. The NRA supports giving the govt massive power.

"... it is a most miserable thing to have no other Security for our Liberty, than the Will of a Man, though the most just Man living: For that is not a free Government where there is a good Prince (for even the most arbitrary Governments have had sometimes a Relaxation of their Miseries) but where it is so constituted, that no one can be a Tyrant if he would. Cicero says, though a Master does not tyrannize, yet it is a lamentable consideration that it is in his Power to do so; and therefore such a Power is to be trusted to none, which if it does not find a Tyrant, commonly makes one; and if not him, to be sure a Successor."

--John Trenchard, “A SHORT HISTORY OF Standing Armies IN ENGLAND” (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Shor...ies_in_England)
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2014, 4:53 PM
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I'm getting the whole "anything related to Conservatism is BAD" vibe going here.

As much as I love Liberterians, they're also prone to being partisan hacks (everything my party says is right and everything any opposing party says is wrong) as much as far left and far right folks are.

This is why this country is being hindered from becoming a greater nation that it could be.
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Old 04-30-2014, 4:57 PM
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I'm afraid anything I have to say about that article would be offensive.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2014, 4:59 PM
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I expected his posting location to be someplace in Colorado...
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Old 04-30-2014, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerrilla Warfare View Post
I'm getting the whole "anything related to Conservatism is BAD" vibe going here.

As much as I love Liberterians, they're also prone to being partisan hacks (everything my party says is right and everything any opposing party says is wrong) as much as far left and far right folks are.
Funny you should post this. I actually left the LP because it was becoming more conservative than libertarian.
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Old 04-30-2014, 5:16 PM
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You live in 2014 America. You have to get real.

The NRA might not be exactly what you want it to be, but just imagine for 10 seconds...if the NRA did not exist.

Ok. All your firearms have been confiscated or made illegal. Have a nice day.
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Old 04-30-2014, 5:33 PM
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Yeah
This is like that crazy guy on the corner ranting about microwaves.
Good bye
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2014, 6:47 PM
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^
+1
So what youre saying is the NRA is allegedly empowering an oppressive US government while simotaneously defending its citizens rights, specifically the one meant to ensure we have the means to overthrow said tyrannical government if necessary.

Huh?

...and Im Libertarian btw.
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  #13  
Old 04-30-2014, 7:02 PM
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Bloombergs donation at work here.
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  #14  
Old 04-30-2014, 8:22 PM
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Thanks i hadn't seen that video. see guys something good did come of this....
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Old 04-30-2014, 8:32 PM
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His message bears reading, making very good points about the political agenda, and how they have destroyed our freedoms, developed a Police State, exhausting government funds on rogue wars-
but concluding the NRA is the cause of it is dysfunctional,
the NRA operates in the prevailing political environment
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Old 04-30-2014, 9:24 PM
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The good thing about wasting my time reading the convoluted blog article...

It convinced me to make another donation to the NRA.

OP, look up cognitive dissonance and then think about it really hard.


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  #17  
Old 04-30-2014, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
The good thing about wasting my time reading the convoluted blog article...
...is that you saved me from wasting mine!





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  #18  
Old 05-01-2014, 1:03 PM
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The war on your money, guns, drugs, rights, etc is all the same war. Prohibition that defines victimless crimes (and actually causes violent crimes by creating a black market, which is then used to justify the prohibition that causes them...circular logic) is a central component to the overall war on freedom. The item/topic used as a scapegoat is somewhat less relevant.

Think of alcohol prohibition. It failed miserably, the majority of people were against it, and it created one of the most powerful organized criminal syndicates in the history of the world (the mafia was birthed and fueled by the fires of illegal alcohol money).

Drugs, guns, gay marriage, taxes, whatever. It is all just used as an excuse to control you. And no, I'm not an anarchist or a hippie.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis
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Old 05-01-2014, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerrilla Warfare View Post
As much as I love Liberterians, they're also prone to being partisan hacks (everything my party says is right and everything any opposing party says is wrong) as much as far left and far right folks are.
Got an example? I'm curious.
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Old 05-01-2014, 1:12 PM
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Take a look outside your nearest window.

Ask yourself how many of the human beings walking about even comprehend the political history of this nation.

The answer to that question is why America is becoming more statist by the moment. The flaw of a representative Republic is that it's government is only as smart as the average voter
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Old 05-01-2014, 2:20 PM
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There are times when I think that Robert A. Heinlein had the right idea in Starship Troopers where franchise is concerned.
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Old 05-01-2014, 2:24 PM
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We need the NRA to defend the 2nd Amendment. Yes, there are other pro-gun organizations and I belong to one of the others and will continue that. But we need the NRA. Therefor if this site is critical of the NRA, I'll have nothing to do with it. I did not read the entire piece because it quickly left me with the impression that it was opposed to the NRA.

What anti-gun types, and liberal politicians do (and maybe the site linked does not), is to demonize the NRA. Make the NRA the issue, as in: It's the NRA that is at fault for the lack of enough restrictions on gun ownership and use. They think they can present anti-gun arguments without alienating Americans. NO, it's not about the NRA. It's WE THE PEOPLE who are responsible for resisting Big Government. Without us, the NRA or anything comparable would not exist. The NRA is one of our voices, the major voice; our creation, and funded by us. It speaks for us.....not perfectly, but good enough.
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Old 05-01-2014, 2:30 PM
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Support our NRA and our 2A 100%
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Old 05-01-2014, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
The war on your money, guns, drugs, rights, etc is all the same war. Prohibition that defines victimless crimes (and actually causes violent crimes by creating a black market, which is then used to justify the prohibition that causes them...circular logic) is a central component to the overall war on freedom. The item/topic used as a scapegoat is somewhat less relevant.

Think of alcohol prohibition. It failed miserably, the majority of people were against it, and it created one of the most powerful organized criminal syndicates in the history of the world (the mafia was birthed and fueled by the fires of illegal alcohol money).

Drugs, guns, gay marriage, taxes, whatever. It is all just used as an excuse to control you. And no, I'm not an anarchist or a hippie.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Sad that most don't see this truth.
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Old 05-01-2014, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Navy View Post
We need the NRA to defend the 2nd Amendment. Yes, there are other pro-gun organizations and I belong to one of the others and will continue that. But we need the NRA. Therefor if this site is critical of the NRA, I'll have nothing to do with it. I did not read the entire piece because it quickly left me with the impression that it was opposed to the NRA.

What anti-gun types, and liberal politicians do (and maybe the site linked does not), is to demonize the NRA. Make the NRA the issue, as in: It's the NRA that is at fault for the lack of enough restrictions on gun ownership and use. They think they can present anti-gun arguments without alienating Americans. NO, it's not about the NRA. It's WE THE PEOPLE who are responsible for resisting Big Government. Without us, the NRA or anything comparable would not exist. The NRA is one of our voices, the major voice; our creation, and funded by us. It speaks for us.....not perfectly, but good enough.
Please try reading the whole article. Liberals & anti-gun types have nothing to do with it. You're right that I don't like the NRA. The reason is that they're promoting a neocon agenda in addition to gun rights. That tells liberatarians like me to get lost. So what does a libertarian do in return? Tell them to get lost.
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Old 05-01-2014, 8:00 PM
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Originally Posted by darrenlobo View Post
So what does a libertarian do in return?
Uh, separate marketing and your perceived injustices from real world results? Maybe not insulting millions of people by insinuating they're idiots who can't see past their noses?

Are you so virtuous, so washed, so enlightened? No, I say, you believe in nothing.
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Please try reading the whole article.
A little constructive critisicm? I'm no writer, but I can tell you that you've mostly failed if you must implore your audience to soldier on after making your opening arguments, in what is amounts to a five paragraph story.







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Old 05-01-2014, 8:20 PM
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I've seen the NRA step in it before by being caught up in the left's rhetoric. Like

Lefty: 'shouldn't we take guns from the extremely mentally ill??? Its like common sense!!! How can you be against this??'

NRA: 'Uhh; yes.. ok... do it.'

End result; going after anyone thats ever checked into a mental facility for anything.

I think I've made similar missteps over the years. The patriot act and all this domestic spying was sold as temporary but I should have known. Taxes and power expansion with gov are never temporary... and if you're against it now your a terrorist...
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Old 05-01-2014, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Darren WolfeMay 1, 2014 at 5:54 AM
Thanks! In some circles this article isn't going over well at all.
Ya think?

I read the full blog entry, I would like to see a list of damages, a list containing each and every way the NRA has helped contribute to the police state and striping us of our rights. that way we can stack it up against each and every way they have defended or returned our freedoms. A pros and cons list if you will.

You may need to buy some more bandwidth for the pros column.
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Old 05-05-2014, 6:49 PM
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The nincompoop OP perhaps confuses limited feelgood statements designed to appeal to attendees at NRA fundraisers, vs. NRA actual legislative activities - the latter of which are really the only thing that count.

The OP would be at pains to show legislative activity outside the field of gun rights (and to some extent aspects of hunting), or defending their political weight (i.e., killing DISCLOSE act). As a political actor, NRA is pretty single focused.

In fact, the OP can't remotely demonstrate that. He's just an idiot that needs to be kicked in the teeth to the curb.

[BTW, I have no problem seeing DEA Agents and drug cops hanging from ropes, but that's a separate political issue.]
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Old 05-05-2014, 6:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I've seen the NRA step in it before by being caught up in the left's rhetoric. Like

Lefty: 'shouldn't we take guns from the extremely mentally ill??? Its like common sense!!! How can you be against this??'

NRA: 'Uhh; yes.. ok... do it.'
NRA never did this. Get your friggin' facts straight.

Somethings are politically unwinninable at certain times despite opposition. That stuff happened, and it's likely constitutionally supportable (see: Heller).

What the NRA _has_ done in fact, via the SAFE Act, was to allow clear possibilities of RESTORATION of 2A rights if adjudged as defective. It's gonna be a long fight, too.
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Old 05-05-2014, 7:33 PM
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IIRC the NRA was at the forefront of investigative procedures involving the abuses that occurred in Waco Texas and because of their efforts the entire situation was exposed as govt tyranny ! Along with Rush Limbaugh and some independent researchers congress was forced to hold public hearings and more would have been accomplished if the NRA had larger numbers .

The libertarians who are really anarchists are useless when it comes to restoring or preserving liberty ! They are what Marx termed uselful idiots. Not only do they mock Rush Limbaugh and the NRA, they are at the forefront of wanting to destroy constitutional mandates, such as secure borders and other requirements for a safe and prosperous society !

Now in typical libertarian fashion they attack the NRA ! Gun owners would be best served to shun this group of utopian malcontents, whose only contribution is to elect anti gun democrats !
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Old 05-05-2014, 9:00 PM
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IIRC the NRA was at the forefront of investigative procedures involving the abuses that occurred in Waco Texas and because of their efforts the entire situation was exposed as govt tyranny ! Along with Rush Limbaugh and some independent researchers congress was forced to hold public hearings and more would have been accomplished if the NRA had larger numbers .

The libertarians who are really anarchists are useless when it comes to restoring or preserving liberty ! They are what Marx termed uselful idiots. Not only do they mock Rush Limbaugh and the NRA, they are at the forefront of wanting to destroy constitutional mandates, such as secure borders and other requirements for a safe and prosperous society !

Now in typical libertarian fashion they attack the NRA ! Gun owners would be best served to shun this group of utopian malcontents, whose only contribution is to elect anti gun democrats !
Are... are you joking? Please tell me you're joking....

So we HAVE to vote for the party who opposes gay marriage just because, fuels the war on drugs (and thus more crime), takes books out of libraries for being improper/offensive, and recently has been pushing RINOs that only differ from their evil democrat counterparts by party name, or else we're anti-gun democrat hippies? That's why we have our own party... The whole point of 3rd parties is to steal votes from the big two to make them lean more towards our direction to get those votes back. You who unconditionally support the party are the ones driving it off the cliff. Those of us willing to leave are the ones who keep them on the straight and narrow.

I bet you support Romney, Bush, Christy, etc. They are no more patriotic or freedom loving that Obama himself.

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Old 05-05-2014, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boy&hisdogs View Post
Are... are you joking? Please tell me you're joking....

So we HAVE to vote for the party who opposes gay marriage just because, fuels the war on drugs (and thus more crime), takes books out of libraries for being improper/offensive, and recently has been pushing RINOs that only differ from their evil democrat counterparts by party name, or else we're anti-gun democrat hippies? That's why we have our own party... The whole point of 3rd parties is to steal votes from the big two to make them lean more towards our direction to get those votes back. You who unconditionally support the party are the ones driving it off the cliff. Those of us willing to leave are the ones who keep them on the straight and narrow.

I bet you support Romney, Bush, Christy, etc. They are no more patriotic or freedom loving that Obama himself.
They all have the same prerogative. At this point all you can do is try to swing the pendulum the other way, until it needs to be swung back....
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Old 05-05-2014, 9:38 PM
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After I join NRA, the amount of spam mail (e and paper) surprised me...
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:11 PM
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After I join NRA, the amount of spam mail (e and paper) surprised me...
[Obligatory junk mail dump... never fails]

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  #36  
Old 05-05-2014, 10:59 PM
Nick Adams Nick Adams is offline
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I am a Libertarian. I am an NRA member. I do not agree with some of the NRAs actions, but overall, I will not let perfect be the enemy of good.
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  #37  
Old 05-05-2014, 11:03 PM
ja308 ja308 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boy&hisdogs View Post
Are... are you joking? Please tell me you're joking....

So we HAVE to vote for the party who opposes gay marriage just because, fuels the war on drugs (and thus more crime), takes books out of libraries for being improper/offensive, and recently has been pushing RINOs that only differ from their evil democrat counterparts by party name, or else we're anti-gun democrat hippies? That's why we have our own party... The whole point of 3rd parties is to steal votes from the big two to make them lean more towards our direction to get those votes back. You who unconditionally support the party are the ones driving it off the cliff. Those of us willing to leave are the ones who keep them on the straight and narrow.

I bet you support Romney, Bush, Christy, etc. They are no more patriotic or freedom loving that Obama himself.

The state I'm moving to has just eliminated a 3 billion deficient banked 100 million and lowered taxes . Republican senate, assembly and governor !

The state I'm moving to has just mailed me a CCW ! 40 bucks and a dd214 !
Republican senate,assembly and governor !

The state I'm moving to has just passed a law mandating that any business that displays a " no weapons sign is personally responsible for every patrons personal safety .
Republican senate,assembly and Governor !

The state I'm moving to has just stopped an idiotic bullet train !
Republican senate,assembly and Governor !

I could increase this list of accomplishments for a few pages outlining the advantages of republican leadership . You should really join some gun rights group and read the legislative accomplishments of republican state govts .
BTW both Mitch Mc Connel and John Beohner have stopped every gun restriction advocated by the democrat party and Mike Bloomberg !

Meanwhile pal you got your nutcase libertarian agenda, bordering an anarchy
and electing gun grabbing democrats ! Even your marry your buddy and abort your child agenda has not been furthered by the libertarian party !


I stand by my statement " libertarians should be shunned by the gun culture ! The OP whose post denigrated the NRA is only the tip of this most destructive party composed of UTOPIANs and malcontents !

40 years and ZERO wins ! A RKBA person should be ashamed of themselves for falling for the democrat trick to elect anti gunners !
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  #38  
Old 05-05-2014, 11:34 PM
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Jasonaspears Jasonaspears is offline
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I watched the video but the article was tough to read...too much infighting.
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  #39  
Old 05-06-2014, 1:53 PM
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boy&hisdogs boy&hisdogs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
The state I'm moving to has just eliminated a 3 billion deficient banked 100 million and lowered taxes . Republican senate, assembly and governor !

1)The state I'm moving to has just mailed me a CCW ! 40 bucks and a dd214 !
Republican senate,assembly and governor !

2)The state I'm moving to has just passed a law mandating that any business that displays a " no weapons sign is personally responsible for every patrons personal safety .
Republican senate,assembly and Governor !

3)The state I'm moving to has just stopped an idiotic bullet train !
Republican senate,assembly and Governor !

I could increase this list of accomplishments for a few pages outlining the advantages of republican leadership . You should really join some gun rights group and read the legislative accomplishments of republican state govts .
BTW both Mitch Mc Connel and John Beohner have stopped every gun restriction advocated by the democrat party and Mike Bloomberg !

Meanwhile pal you got your nutcase libertarian agenda, bordering an anarchy
and electing gun grabbing democrats ! Even your marry your buddy and abort your child agenda has not been furthered by the libertarian party !


I stand by my statement " libertarians should be shunned by the gun culture ! The OP whose post denigrated the NRA is only the tip of this most destructive party composed of UTOPIANs and malcontents !

40 years and ZERO wins ! A RKBA person should be ashamed of themselves for falling for the democrat trick to elect anti gunners !
1) good
2) great
3) awesome

That's why I vote Republican in CA elections. I agree wholeheartedly with Republican economics, though I can't say the same for social policies. I have fairly conservative social opinions, but I don't want to use the nanny state to force those opinions on an entire nation, just like the Democrats do, and you all whine and cry about.

You see Democrats trying to ban guns and force socialized medicine on us and you start waving the flag and reciting the constitution saying that they're overstepping their bounds. You are exactly right. But where in the constitution does it say that the government has the right to control what you eat/drink/ingest? Where in the constitution does it say that the federal government can regulate abortion and birth control? Where in the constitution does it say that the federal government can get get involved in medicine or education?

Republicans, on the federal level, are just as guilty of violating the constitution as Democrats are, but just in ways that you don't care about.

And what gives you the idea that I elect democrats? I have never, ever voted for any democrat ever. I just choose who I like the best for a particular office, and it usually ends up being a Republican. You don't seem to understand the difference between a real Republican and a RINO. You treat them like they are all one and the same. You really think ole R-Money was going to cut taxes? Or reduce spending? Or oppose gun control? He's done the exact opposite of all 3 of those things in his home state of Taxachusetts! Just about the only red thing he actually did was try to force his own brand of religious morals on the entire nation. It'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for a Mormon. I have Mormon cousins and Mormon friends, their entire religion revolves around secrecy, deceit, and following orders on a need-to-know basis. You want to talk about an Orwellian dystopia? Yeah, let's have that cult run our country!

You want to look at a real success? Go see what New Mexico things of Gary Johnson. He came into office in debt and left with a surplus. He has a much higher approval rating as governor that Romney did. He didn't tax people to shreds, like Romney did, he didn't force socialized medicine on people like Romney did, he didn't pass any assault weapons bans like Romney did.

You know Michel Bloomberg is technically a Republican right? Would you give me flak if I didn't vote for him?

The whole idea of me voting Libertarian is because I want to change the Republican party, not because I actually care about getting a Libertarian in office. I see all these RINOs and evangelical nanny staters on TV yammering away and it's driving real conservatives like myself away. The morons who get on tv at talk about their religions fringe policies are just driving moderates and swing voters to the Democrats. I'm pissed at the Republican party because they lost to Obama AGAIN. They really ****ing dropped the ball like it was red hot and 300lbs. That should have been the biggest landslide since George Washington himself was elected. Nobody likes Obama, even most Democrats I know get irritated with him. But guess what? When mister flip-flop mitt wit got on TV they turned away in disgust at the moronic things that he and his RINO buddies blabbered about. I don't give a flying **** if gays get married or if teenagers want to get high and watch MTV. I do care about low taxes, lower spending, a smaller federal government, and no socialized medicine, none of which the Republican party was offering in 2012.

Last edited by boy&hisdogs; 05-06-2014 at 1:59 PM..
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  #40  
Old 05-06-2014, 10:16 PM
ja308 ja308 is offline
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I cannot and will not defend every action by every elected republican in the USA . I will stand in support of the republican party's platform of 2012 . It contains direction and policy's I agree with .

Some info you posted is not accurate, such as abortion clinics being regulated ! They are not and as a result we have this situation .
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...-story/274944/
No one is suggesting fedgov monitor these mills. But recently Texas republicans tried and were unable to get traction .
We know libertartarians think the market can fix abuses such as these, unfortunately it can't !

The FDA is an organization that has become tyrannical with the appointment of Obama crony, Margret Hamberg ! Yet the FDA may have some value in keeping unsafe drugs off the market ! Possibly a direct election of FDA chief may be a solution, since its inevitable that a democrat will win the presidency ! Margret Hamberg would not have this job if Romney were president.

Romneys religion would not have effected his job anymore than JFKs did ! Romney was endorsed by Jim Wallace of GOAl, e the NRA and GOA!
With Romney we would not have had 4 buck gas, Fast and Furious , Kagan, Sotomayer, or a president who burns millions of gallon of jet fuel while complaining your Suburban causes " Global Warming" ! Romney further pledged to eliminate Obama care .
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...repeal-pledge/
Romney never would have appointed John F Kerry to sec of state where he could sign UN treaty restricting your gun rights !
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QQW0RswpQ4

How did that vote for Gary Johnson work out for you ? It didn't you sent a message and elected a democrat !
I would suggest you get info from the party itself and stop listening or reading these
liars and fools, known as libertarians . http://www.redstate.com/
Try this link ! Then you will at least have accurate info on GOP plans and agenda .
It bears repeating NOT one group of voters will choose the libertarian candidate ! Not unions public or private, not elderly, not minority's, not women ! So exactly how can this party which has won nothing in 40 years appeal to anyone ?
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Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand

Last edited by ja308; 05-06-2014 at 10:51 PM..
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