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  #41  
Old 12-15-2010, 5:45 PM
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tacticalcity, thanks for using paragraphs
Hopefully Olive will take note how much easier your long post is to read than her long endless run of words.
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  #42  
Old 12-15-2010, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorFranko View Post
tacticalcity, thanks for using paragraphs
Hopefully Olive will take note how much easier your long post is to read than her long endless run of words.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
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  #43  
Old 12-15-2010, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticalcity View Post
The gun malfuctioning is not on them at all. Nor is it their job to fix it for you. So about 90% of the above paragraph has nothing to do with them. They tried to help and couldn't. But that is not their bad? So there are some unreasonable expectations there.
from my reading of it, it was more of as the gun was was broke, OP looked at it and throught it was the plunger spring that was the problem. FS gun guy thinks it is the trigger that is bad. later in day 1, OP cleans gun and fixes problem (wasn't the plunger spring, but was metal in the firing pin channel).

Day 2, OP has FS people inspect gun, gun is fine and passes inspection. gets looked at a second time, still passes. Then, 3rd FS guy sees that the plunger spring wasn't swapped out and decides that the gun is unsafe. This 3rd guy yesterday didn't think it was the plunger spring that could have caused the problem, but thought it was the trigger.

the question is, why did the gun guy deem it unsafe? was the plunger spring really bad? He didn't think so yesterday. If he deemed it unsafe for no valid reason, he started the chain of events that followed. And, yes the annoucemnet against swapping parts might have been excessive, but we weren't there to see how it went down. The OP might have thin skin and let it affect her whereas a reasonable person would have just taken the advice for what it was and just gone with things.


OP, please use paragraphs next time.
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2010, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
from my reading of it, it was more of as the gun was was broke, OP looked at it and throught it was the plunger spring that was the problem. FS gun guy thinks it is the trigger that is bad. later in day 1, OP cleans gun and fixes problem (wasn't the plunger spring, but was metal in the firing pin channel).

Day 2, OP has FS people inspect gun, gun is fine and passes inspection. gets looked at a second time, still passes. Then, 3rd FS guy sees that the plunger spring wasn't swapped out and decides that the gun is unsafe. This 3rd guy yesterday didn't think it was the plunger spring that could have caused the problem, but thought it was the trigger.

the question is, why did the gun guy deem it unsafe? was the plunger spring really bad? He didn't think so yesterday. If he deemed it unsafe for no valid reason, he started the chain of events that followed. And, yes the annoucemnet against swapping parts might have been excessive, but we weren't there to see how it went down. The OP might have thin skin and let it affect her whereas a reasonable person would have just taken the advice for what it was and just gone with things.


OP, please use paragraphs next time.


he deemed it unsafe because it almost went FA the day before .
I would of did the same thing
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyJeff View Post
he deemed it unsafe because it almost went FA the day before .
I would of did the same thing
but the OP cleaned it, found a problem, and had 2 other FS people deem it safe. then the 3rd guy deems it unsafe because she didn't replace the part that he didn't think was the problem yesterday.

That would be like me having an issue with the disconnector spring on an AR causing it to go FA. I look at it and think it was the disconnector itself bad and the armorer thinking it was the hammer (that it couldn't be the disconnector). I go home and find out that the spring was upside down and fix it. go back the next day and the armorer says my gun is unsafe because I didn't change the disconnector Despite the fact that now there is no problem and the gun runs fine.


this is the confusing part:

Quote:
I told him I think I know what the problem is, it's the plunger spring. Him: not possible that could be causin the problem. I said okay. ( nice guy, helped me out but gave me wrong info; said the safety plunger spring should never be loose and should be replaced said the spring is sawdured onto the plunger and you have to buy the piece as a set. Recommended i replace it, i said okay trusting him
If the gun guy said that is was not possible that the plunger spring was causing the problem, why recommend that it be replaced? Unless that plunger spring was unsafe, even though it might not have been causing the current problem?
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Last edited by ke6guj; 12-15-2010 at 6:04 PM..
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
but the OP cleaned it, found a problem, and had 2 other FS people deem it safe. then the 3rd guy deems it unsafe because she didn't replace the part that he didn't think was the problem yesterday.

That would be like me having an issue with the disconnector spring on an AR causing it to go FA. I look at it and think it was the disconnector itself bad and the armorer thinking it was the hammer (that it couldn't be the disconnector). I go home and find out that the spring was upside down and fix it. go back the next day and the armorer says my gun is unsafe because I didn't change the disconnector Despite the fact that now there is no problem and the gun runs fine.
the op is not a professional glock gunsmith
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:10 PM
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Missiondude. I was holding my own against a few line coaches. Then the extractor sheared off......
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyJeff View Post
the op is not a professional glock gunsmith
were any of the 3 FS people that looked at it Glock Armorers, I dunno.

still wondering why the guy recommended that the plunger spring be replaced when he did not feel that it was the problem? Was there any indication that the gun was still suffering from the same problem?
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:13 PM
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so he didnt let her use her piece

is it worthy of the bashfest she posted on a public website

doubt it
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  #50  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyJeff View Post
so he didnt let her use her piece

is it worthy of the bashfest she posted on a public website

doubt it
Each person is different. Obvisously the OP was affected enough to post about it, so it is "worthy" to somebody.

OP had 2 backup pistols. I would have definitely use my own backup gun than a loaner though. But that's just me.
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  #51  
Old 12-16-2010, 1:16 AM
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Quote:
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OP had 2 backup pistols. I would have definitely use my own backup gun than a loaner though. But that's just me.
refer to post #39
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  #52  
Old 12-22-2010, 7:29 PM
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Go here I say!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...69#post5491869
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  #53  
Old 12-22-2010, 8:09 PM
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I've been going to FS for 14 years and never had an experience like you are describing. I have 2 sons, a son in-law, and about a dozen friends who are frequent attendees who also have never had an experience like you describe. Instructors are great, training even better.
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  #54  
Old 12-22-2010, 8:16 PM
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Can I please say "try using an iPhone" for my lack of paragraph usage... Anyway u guys seem to be missing the real point. ... Frontsight isn't worth all the hype... IMH... In my opinion is the emphasized expression.
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  #55  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by OliveCookieMonsta View Post
Can I please say "try using an iPhone" for my lack of paragraph usage... Anyway u guys seem to be missing the real point. ... Frontsight isn't worth all the hype... IMH... In my opinion is the emphasized expression.
I understand YOU feel its not worth "all the hype" to YOU. But judging the comments from all the other posters, your riding that boat all by yourself.

Seriously, I think it was just a bad day and that happens.
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  #56  
Old 12-23-2010, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveCookieMonsta View Post
Can I please say "try using an iPhone" for my lack of paragraph usage... Anyway u guys seem to be missing the real point. ... Frontsight isn't worth all the hype... IMH... In my opinion is the emphasized expression.
I can type perfect paragraphs with my iphone
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  #57  
Old 12-23-2010, 4:54 AM
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I didnt know people still went to frontsight...

learn something new everyday.
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  #58  
Old 12-23-2010, 8:56 AM
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I didnt know people still went to frontsight...

learn something new everyday.
Seriously? There were 850 students at my last class....Thats funny.
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  #59  
Old 12-23-2010, 9:19 AM
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Sorry to hear about your experience. I have been several times, just got back from a class this Dec, and have always had a great experience. I did have a malfunction once and 3 range masters work on the pistol while I used my back up. Got me back up and running.

Go find Wes. I forget his last name, but he is the head guy out there. Explain to him what is going on. He might be able to help.
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  #60  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:52 AM
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Seriously? There were 850 students at my last class....Thats funny.
850?

How many instuctors?

What type of class?

How long was the class?
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  #61  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:16 AM
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The numbers projected are 200,000 students per year.

FrontSight is growing... very fast!
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  #62  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:27 AM
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850?

How many instuctors?

What type of class?

How long was the class?
Multiple classes. each class (range) holds 40 or students. Some classes were 4 day and some where two day. So 850 was reduced by Day 3 as the two day students were finished. Each class has a range master and two instructors. The system they use is 20 students (1st relay) on the shooting line and the other 20 (2nd relay) standing behind and to the right of their partner to help monitor their partners actions for safety violations and proceedural errors. Then they switch relays for the firing line.

Its a great system and at the begining of the first day, they go through the motions teaching everyone how to prevent/stop, etc safety violations while not on the firing line. If some beginer trys to turn and muzzle someone behind them, trys to bend over to pick something up or whatever, they are stopped safely in thgeir tracks.

The range master gives the commands and monitors students and instructors each monitor half of the firing line going back and forth behind their 10 shooters, assisting those having difficulties. It works out that everyoine gets the personal attention they need.

I have never seen anyone not helped as much as they needed. Obviously there are a lot of LE, Military (especially guys getting ready for deployment), competiton experieced, etc., so not everyone needs help at the same time. It works quite well.

And I think the best part is that they follow a strict timeline. There is never a bunch of standing around smokin and joking. you get training the whole time your there.


If you interested, PM me.

Read this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=376006
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Last edited by MP301; 12-23-2010 at 11:34 AM..
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  #63  
Old 12-25-2010, 7:01 PM
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Seriously... That place seems freaking crazy!!! To me (again IMO, and if I'm alone in the boat whatever at least I'm not a follower) the guy is planning something that sounds like the three C's there and I'm not talking diamonds... More like cult, commune, and cool-aid!!! Listen to the propaganda AND from what I hear seems like they are going through bad financial (lawsuit) issues... Hmm wonder why.
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  #64  
Old 12-25-2010, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveCookieMonsta View Post
Seriously... That place seems freaking crazy!!! To me (again IMO, and if I'm alone in the boat whatever at least I'm not a follower) the guy is planning something that sounds like the three C's there and I'm not talking diamonds... More like cult, commune, and cool-aid!!! Listen to the propaganda AND from what I hear seems like they are going through bad financial (lawsuit) issues... Hmm wonder why.
Ok, no offense intended here, but now I can see that not only are you in a boat all by yourself, your also so far off course that your in danger of hitting an iceberg. Say hi to the Titanic for me, would ya?

You will never see or hear anything but training while at FS. He is not "planning" anything and not spuoting propaganda. Seriously, did you really even attend FS or are you making it up??

I say that because the only people I have ever heard spew this kinda hate crap are those that a) have not attended and b) have an ax to grind.

I am sorry that you feel the way you do because your only hurting yourself. Good luck
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  #65  
Old 12-25-2010, 7:48 PM
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I'm not by myself. If you think so then you probably haven't gone too far in research of training. I had numerous individuals.. NRA/POST instructor tells me it's not worth it... And I had many vendors and ppl that have gone saying it was...so I wanted to try it and I did. Public Forum --> free opinion! And you are getting mine. But I have to say it really sucks that many of you are not realizing the effect beginners training has... It's a movement for the whole 2nd amendment:.. What I didn't say in my original post because it was only two days in the course, but two other people walked off the line one the third day and one the last day, to not return... All in all, I honestly don't believe that should ever happen, not with a good instructor anyway... And FS is a reflection of who they hire. I hope all trainers, certified instructors would agree, if u have more than one person walk away in four days, u should change something...

I'm not exzagerating, it
Happened. FS 12/13-17/10 class, instructor Goodman. We approached lead instructor and day 3 and 4 were much better for pur group. But 2 students still left the line on days 3 and 4.

Excuse no paragraphs but who really cares! Except "those"! Lol kidding

No offense to anyone but if you have no other training beside FS please reconsider your posted opinion. That's IMHO.

Last edited by OliveCookieMonsta; 12-25-2010 at 7:53 PM..
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  #66  
Old 12-25-2010, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveCookieMonsta View Post
I'm not by myself. If you think so then you probably haven't gone too far in research of training. I had numerous individuals.. NRA/POST instructor tells me it's not worth it... And I had many vendors and ppl that have gone saying it was...so I wanted to try it and I did. Public Forum --> free opinion! And you are getting mine. But I have to say it really sucks that many of you are not realizing the effect beginners training has... It's a movement for the whole 2nd amendment:.. What I didn't say in my original post because it was only two days in the course, but two other people walked off the line one the third day and one the last day, to not return... All in all, I honestly don't believe that should ever happen, not with a good instructor anyway... And FS is a reflection of who they hire. I hope all trainers, certified instructors would agree, if u have more than one person walk away in four days, u should change something...

I'm not exzagerating, it
Happened. FS 12/13-17/10 class, instructor Goodman. We approached lead instructor and day 3 and 4 were much better for pur group. But 2 students still left the line on days 3 and 4.

Excuse no paragraphs but who really cares! Except "those"! Lol kidding

No offense to anyone but if you have no other training beside FS please reconsider your posted opinion. That's IMHO.
I agree that you are entitled to your opinion. And, fortunately, I am also entitled to mine...you gotta love this country!

A couple things I would say regarding your last post.....

Its not that I doubt your word....well, maybe Im skeptical that what you are saying is accurate...or maybe not in proper context.

Example #1

Students leaving before the end of day four.

I have been going for a few years no less then 3 tines a year, but usually closer to five. I am going trip #4 for 2010 in the morning. This puts me in a position of having an idea on what goes on better then you do.

Students will quit on a 4 day class is because they cant handle 4 days of solid training. There are older people that dont have the stamina and people who cant deal with the heat and others that didnt expect the pace.

Next, some annonmous NRA/POST instructor (you see how problematic it is for us to take seriously, right? ) says "its not worth it?" Yet all those other Venders, etc. said it was. Were the others who actually went lying, or was the instructor you said you talked to full of it?

"But I have to say it really sucks that many of you are not realizing the effect beginners training has... It's a movement for the whole 2nd amendment:.."

is all I can come up with on this one. You know not what you say on this one.

Look, im not going to argue with you anymore. Since a negative report from someone who has actually been to FS is rare, I would chalk it up to a bad day. Your bad day or the staffs bad day or maybe the stars were not lined up properly when you were there. But you shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water is all im sayin. The training is solid and better then what I had in the Police Academy and ASI hands down.
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  #67  
Old 12-25-2010, 8:46 PM
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"Students will quit on a 4 day class is because they cant handle 4 days of solid training. There are older people that dont have the stamina and people who cant deal with the heat and others that didnt expect the pace.."

I'm not arguing... But however many years you have been to FS doesnt excuse The ill treatment of ANYONE. Age, race, or sex!

Be concious of the "big head" of yours because u are no better than an man women youth... Anyone interested in guns or training shouldn't be turned away, neglected, or treated unfairly.

Last edited by OliveCookieMonsta; 12-25-2010 at 9:00 PM..
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  #68  
Old 12-25-2010, 9:15 PM
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The whole issue that most bothered me and the group
I was with wasn't related to guns it was about treating your fellow person and their disrespectful treatment.
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  #69  
Old 12-25-2010, 9:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OliveCookieMonsta View Post
"Students will quit on a 4 day class is because they cant handle 4 days of solid training. There are older people that dont have the stamina and people who cant deal with the heat and others that didnt expect the pace.."

I'm not arguing... But however many years you have been to FS doesnt excuse The ill treatment of ANYONE. Age, race, or sex!

Be concious of the "big head" of yours because u are no better than an man women youth... Anyone interested in guns or training shouldn't be turned away, neglected, or treated unfairly.
Like I said, call it a bad day. Its not something I have heard of before from personal experience or from someone that has been there.

And as far as the "Big Head" comment...Is it really necessary to start personal attacks over a difference of opinion?
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Old 12-25-2010, 9:44 PM
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So u thought your comment was okay? About "older" people? And "bad" day for four different people?

Either way I didn't mean to personal attack you, it's just my expression, reaction and perception of your postings. That's what this is all about.

Thank you for you opinion, I of course disagree but accept your opinion as yours.
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  #71  
Old 12-25-2010, 10:05 PM
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I said "older people" not old people !hahahah. It wasnt meant as a put down...heck, in a few years, im probably going to be considered in that same catagory.

In a few of my classes I was shooting with folks that were in their 70's. They were even holding their own until the heat and exertion got to them. There are many legitimate reasons not to finish a class was the only point I was trying to make.

And to repeat my earlier statement...Maybe it was an instructors "bad day" and not the four students.

In any case, with as many students and instructors that FS has, I would imagine there will be some bad apples from time to time.

And ill tell you something else, If I was attending and an instructor wasnt acting right, I would not waste time contacting Piazza. He answers his own emails actually and you can even get him on the phone most of the time. He is pretty strict with making reasonable students happy and would most likely fix that problem.
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  #72  
Old 12-25-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backcountry View Post
I'm gonna go out on a limb that the OP is an uninformed newb, and/or with a junk gun, and/or is unsafe.
I would agree with the above comment.

My wife and I have had nothing but EXCELLENT training at Front Sight.

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  #73  
Old 12-25-2010, 10:56 PM
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I hope a mod locks this thread
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  #74  
Old 12-25-2010, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CavTrooper View Post
I didnt know people still went to frontsight...

learn something new everyday.
There were over 600 students there with my wife and I the weekend we went 8 months ago.
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  #75  
Old 12-26-2010, 12:56 AM
Green_Shooter Green_Shooter is offline
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So what's the verdict?
Is Front Sight worth it?
More people seemed to defend it, than talk it down.
I just got offered a membership their and I'm brand new here.
Is it a good place for new shooters to go or not>
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  #76  
Old 12-26-2010, 1:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Green_Shooter View Post
So what's the verdict?
Is Front Sight worth it?
More people seemed to defend it, than talk it down.
I just got offered a membership their and I'm brand new here.
Is it a good place for new shooters to go or not>
You answered your own question. Rarely will you hear someone (like the OP) have anything bad to say about it. And then, when you do hear bad, its almost always someone that has never been.
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  #77  
Old 12-26-2010, 8:55 AM
pullnshoot25 pullnshoot25 is offline
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Just skimming this thread is an eery combination of the dinner scene from While You Were Sleeping and how my parents argue.

I am going to extract my eyeballs now.
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  #78  
Old 12-26-2010, 9:47 AM
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I said "older people" not old people !hahahah. It wasnt meant as a put down...heck, in a few years, im probably going to be considered in that same catagory.

In a few of my classes I was shooting with folks that were in their 70's. They were even holding their own until the heat and exertion got to them. There are many legitimate reasons not to finish a class was the only point I was trying to make.

And to repeat my earlier statement...Maybe it was an instructors "bad day" and not the four students.

In any case, with as many students and instructors that FS has, I would imagine there will be some bad apples from time to time.

And ill tell you something else, If I was attending and an instructor wasnt acting right, I would not waste time contacting Piazza. He answers his own emails actually and you can even get him on the phone most of the time. He is pretty strict with making reasonable students happy and would most likely fix that problem.
I have seen students leave due to pre-existing commitments, dehydration, spouse having a bad time etc. I have been there 5 times for training and have never seen anything like the OP described, but I have also never had that particular instructor. If someone is having a bad time due to the instructor, or personality issues, I am sure Wes or AJ would place them in a different class, and have a few words with the instructor and line coaches. FS may not be quite the same as some of the more expensive smaller class size schools, but the training is good, and methods sound if you go with an open mind... I too have seen the posts on the net about cults, bankruptcy, and scientology, and have no idea as to how much any of that is true, but none of it was ever reflected in the instruction. I would love to go to Gunsite just to compare the training and facilities, but I dont have that kind of cash laying around for 4 days of training.
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  #79  
Old 12-26-2010, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pullnshoot25 View Post
Just skimming this thread is an eery combination of the dinner scene from While You Were Sleeping and how my parents argue.

I am going to extract my eyeballs now.
Sorry, your right.
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  #80  
Old 12-27-2010, 9:59 PM
Ammo68 Ammo68 is offline
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I'm gonna go out on a limb that the OP is an uninformed newb, and/or with a junk gun, and/or is unsafe.
+ 100 !!
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