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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-18-2019, 12:12 AM
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Default Best bolt-together lowers you've seen?

Came across this one on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/commen...an_surplus_ar/



I know we gotta have some machine gurus here somewhere. Based on the definitions of even an 80% lower, none of these parts even match that and thus shouldn't qualify as a firearm per ATF or DOJ or anything (though, IANAL).

Regardless, I'd be interested in tinkering with some bolt-together designs - imagine if we could start flat-packing lowers like they're from Ikea lol.

I'm also not sure why these designs need so many screws at the rear vs a couple larger ones. Not a structural engineer or mechanical engineer though so someone else may have a better clue.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:22 AM
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There's also this one in carbon fiber:

https://nozirohsystems.com/

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Old 10-18-2019, 3:01 AM
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Not sure how you would engrave that prior to assembly.......
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Old 10-18-2019, 5:58 AM
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Gonna need a bigger pic before I can pass judgement.
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Old 10-18-2019, 6:11 AM
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I guess the real question is why, when a lower is going for around $100 bucks plus tax and DROS. Not exactly breaking the bank with that cost.
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Old 10-18-2019, 6:56 AM
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GitHub Fosscad library has multipiece lower solid models, STP format I think, so
you’re going to need CAD software to open them. They’re more geared towards 3D printers, but when you look at the design you could make them from aluminum plate/sheet/billet, if one were so inclined.

That will give you a good idea of what others did if you are actually serious about doing it commercially (not sure if that’s your objective).
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:00 AM
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These have been around for years to DIY’ers. Here’s an OLD thread!
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=274358

Plan on seeing more of these “kits” available next year. The plans/blueprints for 3D printing machines have been around for years. I don’t believe the 3D receivers are very durable, and certainly not geared towards precision/accuracy.

I use one brand of Billet 80% lowers for all my builds now. Every AR I have ever built was capable of SUB-MOA accuracy. I prefer using only 7075 T6 receivers in my AR’s. Now, I have nothing against the polymer receivers. They do work. Simply my preference.

The AR was designed for combat effectiveness, reliability, ruggedness and ACCURACY. I don’t want to sacrifice any of those qualifications. I started building rifles right after the Clinton AWB expires. And it was AK47’s. But it was the WANT of accuracy that led me to building AR’s. And I never looked back!
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Came across this one on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/commen...an_surplus_ar/



I know we gotta have some machine gurus here somewhere. Based on the definitions of even an 80% lower, none of these parts even match that and thus shouldn't qualify as a firearm per ATF or DOJ or anything (though, IANAL).

Regardless, I'd be interested in tinkering with some bolt-together designs - imagine if we could start flat-packing lowers like they're from Ikea lol.

I'm also not sure why these designs need so many screws at the rear vs a couple larger ones. Not a structural engineer or mechanical engineer though so someone else may have a better clue.
Yeah, well CA law still requires applying for a serial number and engraving it on the "receiver" before finishing. Not sure how that would work here.

There is a lengthy discussion going on in the National 2A forum on what constitutes a "firearm" as defined by the ATF. You might check it out.

As for the screws, earlier polymer lowers had a habit of developing a nasty crack at the rear by the buffer tube. Using more, smaller screws helps distribute shear forces more evenly.

The 2a discussion is here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1564423
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Old 10-18-2019, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback View Post
These have been around for years to DIY’ers. Here’s an OLD thread!
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=274358

Plan on seeing more of these “kits” available next year. The plans/blueprints for 3D printing machines have been around for years. I don’t believe the 3D receivers are very durable, and certainly not geared towards precision/accuracy.

I use one brand of Billet 80% lowers for all my builds now. Every AR I have ever built was capable of SUB-MOA accuracy. I prefer using only 7075 T6 receivers in my AR’s. Now, I have nothing against the polymer receivers. They do work. Simply my preference.
The lower of an AR has little to nothing to do with accuracy. I think the allure of printing is that a 3D printer is easier, safer, cheaper to purchase and run than a CNC mill.

3D printer technology is continually improving just like machining technology just wait until the laser sintering printers get cheap, you’ll be able to print with in metal in your garage. I remember the engineering lab at state had a $30k stratasys dual filament printer this was 2010 or so and the thing was kind of junky, now you can get a dual filament enclosed heated bed printers starting at $800 with a build platform big enough to print AR10, AR15, 30 round magazine bodies, etc.

You’re using billet 7075? I don’t think I’ve seen those. Usually the bullet ones are 6061 and the 7075 are forgings.
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  #10  
Old 10-18-2019, 10:23 AM
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Ban all pieces of metal!
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  #11  
Old 10-18-2019, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Came across this one on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/commen...an_surplus_ar/



I know we gotta have some machine gurus here somewhere. Based on the definitions of even an 80% lower, none of these parts even match that and thus shouldn't qualify as a firearm per ATF or DOJ or anything (though, IANAL).

Regardless, I'd be interested in tinkering with some bolt-together designs - imagine if we could start flat-packing lowers like they're from Ikea lol.

I'm also not sure why these designs need so many screws at the rear vs a couple larger ones. Not a structural engineer or mechanical engineer though so someone else may have a better clue.
Don't forget these:
https://www.theflatspot.net/ar-lower-flat.html
kt ordinance kt-15b lower (no longer sold)
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  #12  
Old 10-18-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
There's also this one in carbon fiber:

https://nozirohsystems.com/

That is really cool looking. Do want.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:49 PM
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The one from Reddit looks amazing. Is anyone here actually shooting one made from flats?
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Old 10-18-2019, 2:45 PM
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i dont understand the appeal when you can get $50 anderson lowers or $80 aero lowers. I mean its cool to build your own, but id rather get an 80% if i wanted it to be completely off the books. Otherwise I wouldnt trust a lower that is screwed together like that.

Does anyone know what kinda durability or round count something like that can endure?
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Old 10-18-2019, 2:54 PM
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Originally Posted by enorbit3 View Post
i dont understand the appeal when you can get $50 anderson lowers or $80 aero lowers. I mean its cool to build your own, but id rather get an 80% if i wanted it to be completely off the books. Otherwise I wouldnt trust a lower that is screwed together like that.

Does anyone know what kinda durability or round count something like that can endure?
I hear that. I'd like to pick up a few when they go for $40 locally. That first one just looks gorgeous to me. Never seen a bolt together receiver before so novelty value I guess.

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Old 10-18-2019, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17+1 View Post
The lower of an AR has little to nothing to do with accuracy.

You’re using billet 7075? I don’t think I’ve seen those. Usually the bullet ones are 6061 and the 7075 are forgings.
Yes, I understand that the lower doesn’t add or subtract from accuracy as it’s thought of. But accuracy is simply a byproduct of a culmination of high quality parts built to accent each other. Not to mention the loose nut behind the wheel(or trigger in this case) doing their part! I have no interest in building a quality, bullet proof upper and sticking a cheap piece of plastic under it! (Notice I said plastic, not polymer. If you need help understanding the meaning there, than you aren’t in the right conversation)

Yes, 6061 was the norm when Billets were new on the scene....7, 8 years ago.. maybe longer. But now 80% 7075 Billets are plentiful among several manufacturers. I have put a tremendous amount of research into them, and have chosen the my supplier for several reasons.
Nothing wrong with 6061 other than it being much softer, but like I said, I don’t go “lesser” on my builds in order to save $30 bucks.

Before these 80%’s were available, I would ONLY use Spikes tactical stripped lowers. Believe it or not, I was actually one of Spikes Tactical's FIRST customers! I remember when they were a small start-up company, and many people thought I was crazy buying from them. LOL!
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Last edited by Dave Hoback; 10-18-2019 at 3:44 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
The one from Reddit looks amazing. Is anyone here actually shooting one made from flats?
Yea! That one on Reddit looks awesome!
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Old 10-18-2019, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by enorbit3 View Post
i dont understand the appeal when you can get $50 anderson lowers or $80 aero lowers. I mean its cool to build your own, but id rather get an 80% if i wanted it to be completely off the books. Otherwise I wouldnt trust a lower that is screwed together like that.

Does anyone know what kinda durability or round count something like that can endure?
I think the appeal is that some day you may not be able to get an Anderson, or ANY lower.

I am a mechanical engineer, and I can tell you that if it is designed well (with enough meat around the through holes), it would definitely be strong enough. I would trust it way more than well designed polymer lowers.
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Old 10-19-2019, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbit3 View Post
i dont understand the appeal when you can get $50 anderson lowers or $80 aero lowers. I mean its cool to build your own, but id rather get an 80% if i wanted it to be completely off the books. Otherwise I wouldnt trust a lower that is screwed together like that.

Does anyone know what kinda durability or round count something like that can endure?
You do realize that AR parts that undergo far more stress are "screwed together"? e.g., carrier keys, barrel nuts.
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Old 10-19-2019, 6:19 PM
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Yeah I’d absolutely trust it. I actually might look into one of these(in 80% form of course), as a lower for doing a 338 Lapua/50BMG upper. I think one ☝️ f these may fit the bill of a custom setup perfectly.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:09 PM
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Thanks for clarifying and enlightening me. I had no idea if it'd be strong enough.
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Old 10-23-2019, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
I think the appeal is that some day you may not be able to get an Anderson, or ANY lower.

I am a mechanical engineer, and I can tell you that if it is designed well (with enough meat around the through holes), it would definitely be strong enough. I would trust it way more than well designed polymer lowers.
I believe the guy who made this one stated he started with the polymer files and then just made them out of metal. So it *should* be plenty strong.

The appeal to me is the customization possibilities - carbon fiber, different anodizing, easier to pop a piece off and have an artist work on it who has no interest in being an FFL or may even be anti-gun but won’t know what it is, etc.

Then there’s the machining costs overall - 80* lowers are thick chunks and cost a lot more to machine due to the reductive nature of machining. These can be made out of smaller, cheaper, flatter pieces, wasting less material, and can be cranked out in sheets fairly easily comparatively. So rather than an 80% lower for $100, maybe these would cost $75.

The point isn’t necessarily that aero precision lowers are cheaper and available, it’s more that it cheap and available was all that mattered we’d all be driving base model 1992 Honda civics.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2019, 8:28 AM
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How much? Andersons are on sale for $29 this week.
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2019, 12:13 PM
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I'm surprised some company isn't cranking these out as complete knockdown kits.
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