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  #321  
Old 10-04-2019, 8:58 PM
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Default Its already been given away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseg1320 View Post
You truly belive that California will be given away and wall built around it? Cya, good riddance.
Its a third world cesspool the same as mexico ..its just a harbor for illegals , drug addicts and homeless bums ...enjoy the ride its gonna be a rough one
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  #322  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Aesir View Post
For those who think Calguns "should be more inclusive," what exactly should Calguns do to accomplish that?

...

I think you're confusing Calguns with hypothetical Calguns users--you're preaching to users you disagree with. Calguns is simply providing the forum, or the medium with which to exchange ideas, and as far as I can tell, it's 95%+ focused on firearms and related topics.
I see your point. We've been mixing up two totally different subjects. First, CALGUNS.NET as the forum, and second, CALGUNS as Calgunners.

As far as CALGUNS.NET go;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
We have to actually be willing to listen to other views, respond in a civil and articulate manner and remember that what we post isn't just read by the person we're responding to.

...

Focus on 2A vs. being a social community:

We need to keep and grow our pro 2A position and efforts, it is the reason we exist, but we can't do that without the social community being strong too.

So I must ask @Kestryll; Since you are the lead here, maybe you can expand and specify on what it means for the "social community being strong". This can be interpreted loosely by your readers.

i.e : I see strong community of Calgunners being accepting and wholly supportive of one another REGARDLESS of personal biases and belief. And this goes both ways for the left AND the right. A lot of us are not single-issue voter and tend to have more nuances in principles, priorities and political choices. One can have left/socialistic/liberal leaning and still support 2A, and this should be a common bond. OTOH, one can also be a staunch conservative who does not like guns and will not support 2A. Considering California's diversity being this complex, inclusive mentality is a necessity to engage everyone in preserving firearm ownership.

However, others may see it differently.

"social community being strong" can mean Calgunners "not moving an inch" and every member must think, act, behave exactly the same way to preserve firearm ownership. This is a different interpretation with a different expectation, sometimes requiring exclusivity - rejection of others who are different REGARDLESS of common goal. These examples alone are true opposites.

Also, insult and emotions aside, we've been going back and forth on these two approaches for the past 8 pages of this thread.


As far as CALGUNS USERS go;

Here is an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
If you liberal women keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners. Can't see the sky with your skirt over your head there missy.
Is this level of condescension necessary? Wouldn't "If you keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners" enough to make a point?

Clearly I don't know you personally (vintagearm) but this disdain over someone you don't know over the internet is toxic especially to oneself. Sir. I trust you don't talk like this in real life, and if so, there really is no need.


For others, I'll re-quote,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
We have to actually be willing to listen to other views, respond in a civil and articulate manner and remember that what we post isn't just read by the person we're responding to.
This should be crystal clear.
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Last edited by hillsidehutz; 10-05-2019 at 12:13 AM.. Reason: grammar fix and clarity
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  #323  
Old 10-05-2019, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
If you liberal women keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners. Can't see the sky with your skirt over your head there missy.
...
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  #324  
Old 10-05-2019, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
...
He ain't wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
..not only am I a terrorist I'm a Director of a terrorist organization.
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You're letting shallow politics influence your gasp of facts.
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Anyone not voting Brown is putting other things above gun rights.
Whitman + Cooley or Harris = a rash of gun control California has never seen the likes of.
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
If you're not voting why are you even opining?
Brown has a track record of not bowing to Dem pressure on guns.
-Gene
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  #325  
Old 10-05-2019, 7:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsidehutz View Post
However, others may see it differently.

"social community being strong" can mean Calgunners "not moving an inch" and every member must think, act, behave exactly the same way to preserve firearm ownership. This is a different interpretation with a different expectation, sometimes requiring exclusivity - rejection of others who are different REGARDLESS of common goal. These examples alone are true opposites.

Also, insult and emotions aside, we've been going back and forth on these two approaches for the past 8 pages of this thread.


As far as CALGUNS USERS go;

Here is an example.

Is this level of condescension necessary? Wouldn't "If you keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners" enough to make a point?

Clearly I don't know you personally (vintagearm) but this disdain over someone you don't know over the internet is toxic especially to oneself. Sir. I trust you don't talk like this in real life, and if so, there really is no need.


For others, I'll re-quote,


This should be crystal clear.
I would like to mention a couple of things:
1st, given the low post count and recent join date, welcome. You will find it an interesting ride as far a community forum.

2nd, I am only quoting a portion, since you addressed Kestryll directly for some of it. Not my place to respond for him.

You need to understand that here in California there are VERY FEW progressives and very few liberals. Most in this state are LEFTISTS. There are many here who can explain the differences, so I'll let them. You talk about being a multi issue voter, and about nuances in those issues, but that is the crux of the problem. There are NO nuances to the 2nd Amendment in it's pure form (I'm a "Constitutional Purist" on many of the topics).

The simple fact is that the Democrats who are put into office in this state are rabidly anti gun and they use it as part of the Democratic platform. If you vote for a democrat, you are voting anti-gun. It is just that plain and simple. This forum and website is dedicated primarily to pro-gun agenda, although it is generally not an issue if you're not for guns. Remember...if you let this enumerated right get squelched, then you're going to be partly responsible for letting the others go as well, because make ZERO mistake...the government in this state is out to make sure that everyone has exactly the same thing and that they are in control. This is almost the definition of socialism. You will speak only what they let you, and they will be allowed to search and take at will your property (they are now, in case you don't realize it under asset forfeiture laws), and you will not have the ability to resist them, as they will be armed way better than you. You can't believe in God in this state (but you can believe anything else) nor can you have a different opinion without it being hate speech, the state does not want you to have the same guns that police and military have, they are attacking your right to privacy, and are taking people's property without due process or compensation. THIS is the platform of the leftist agenda, which is directly born of the Democratic agenda.

I have many Democrat friends of various levels on the liberal/progressive gauge, but all of them understand that this state is too far left to be comfortable. They fully understand what the left is doing and they are not comfortable. If they're not comfortable, then the conservative right should be terrified. And we are.

The state assembly is approximately 78-80% Democrat. The bills that are sent to committee are simply voted forward without committee discussion because they only need a 2/3 majority to pass them (someone correct me if this is wrong). The governor is off the rails and Xavier Becerra should be disbarred for his handling of the laws in this state. They're unconstitutional prima facie and the state simply does not care. If you'd like examples, PM me and I'll give them to you. I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in on that subject, but I'll give you two topics in particular that you can start with: sanctuary cities and the handgun roster.

The government of this state, which if you're Democrat and voted that way, is your responsibility and is many things but not Democratic. They are leftist. Just look at San Francisco and other areas. Conservatives have virtually zero voice there. Everything done there is done via fiat. Needles in the street, homeless EVERYWHERE, obscene taxes, etc. And...and...do not get me started on sanctuary cities. All in the name of making sure the government takes care of everyone and makes sure that they have the same thing as everyone else. I'm sorry, but if you will not work, then you shall not eat. I get that people need occasional help, but not if you do not have a track record of contributing.

So...you asked if this level of condescension is necessary. I don't think it's absolutely necessary, and some people truly are rude, even here, but if you think that there are no right and wrong opinions, you'll find a lot of resistance to that notion.

We're frustrated at what's happening...legally (and morally in some cases) in this state. If you voted for Newsome and Becerra in the last election, then you're going to catch a lot of heat here. THEY are the reason most of what's happened happened and continues to happen.

Just my $0.02
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  #326  
Old 10-05-2019, 9:12 PM
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I say NO to most of your questions. Iíve appreciated the inclusiveness and general civil nature of this website. Sure, you get the occasional far left or right offensive speak but we all face that every day in the real world. Gun owners are a diverse bunch and if people donít feel welcome or feel alienated, the size and effectiveness of the Calguns community will surely decrease to much lower levels than now. To address youíre concern about lack of effort, action and activism regarding our 2A rights..... Like other people have said there is a large number of members (similar to myself) who enjoy the various benefits of being a Calguns member but arenít particularly passionate about taking action on our rights. Some thoughts on changing that... I agree with the previous suggestions of getting together in person, setting up informational booths etc.... However this takes willing volunteers, time and organization. Based on the local chapter forums in my area this seems unlikely as it would take more people to step up, and take the lead. In my opinion one thing that could help that is to have an email outreach program. I sometimes donít log on for weeks or months at a time. Other times when Iím on, I donít go straight to the 2A forums. I did get motivated and learned a lot about what I could do during freedom week but youíre right, it slowly faded out. However, if I received an email asking me to take action on a particular fight for our rights It would surely increase participation. Also local chapter leads could be allowed to send an email to promote or solicit for events with a link to reply in the appropriate forum etc... With email outreach we could keep the focus of the community on what you originally intended instead of hoping people go to the right forum and read the right post that lights a fire in them. Obviously there would have to be limits and filters and this would be a significant undertaking for someone to facilitate but just thought I would share my thoughts. Thanks.
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  #327  
Old 10-05-2019, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
If you liberal women keep voting for democratic candidates, there will be no CA gun owners. Can't see the sky with your skirt over your head there missy.


I literally laughed out loud when I read this. For sooooo many reasons...


So, um. Look in the upper left of this post. I put my money where my mouth is.

What about you? Are you all talk and no bank? (So many conservative men are, it seems... )

Kate
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  #328  
Old 10-05-2019, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersapper View Post
I would like to mention a couple of things:
1st, given the low post count and recent join date, welcome. You will find it an interesting ride as far a community forum.

...

Just my $0.02
PM sent



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate View Post


I literally laughed out loud when I read this. For sooooo many reasons...


So, um. Look in the upper left of this post. I put my money where my mouth is.

What about you? Are you all talk and no bank? (So many conservative men are, it seems... )

Kate
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  #329  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2shotjoe View Post
He ain't wrong.
I'd give him 50%...correct on voting for Democrats and losing RKBA in California, unnecessary to get into men or women voting...it's all one vote / voter.

"Can't see the sky with your skirt over your head there missy" sounds like the epitome' of FUD.

If you're courting women voters, I'd say you just shot yourself in the foot, and probably some other place too.
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  #330  
Old 10-06-2019, 7:04 PM
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***"100% agreed. Stop pampering fork tongued leftists who come in here trashing the NRA and complaining about gun rights being taken away, while in the same time they stab us in the back by voting for our arch enemies: Democrat politicians. Let's be frank about them: if they would give a crap about the Second Amendment they wouldn't support the people who are sworn to destroy it. It's past time to recognize and separate those who believe guns are a Constitutionally protected right, and those who believe guns are a hobby.
I'm not advocating for kicking them out of Calguns. I love having them around, my boatswain used to say "God made imbeciles so the rest of us could have comic relief laughing at them from time to time". I'm just saying they should be put on notice what they are doing is wrong and damaging to our cause, even if their delicate feelings are hurt."*** Tankerian-

1000 percent agree, they are the reason we have lost our 2nd Amendment rights here in California.

I noticed before I was banned from OT that they would start name calling and spouting nasty stuff and then when it was given back to them and they were hammered with logic they would call foul and people fighting for the cause would be banned.

Unless you fight them back hard and give them back what they dish out we will continue to lose here in California.

The New Democrats are the self identified enemies of our Constitution.

"Hell Yes! I will Take Your AR15" Etc etc et al.

Not my board- but if it was, I would welcome all- but tolerate zero new left propaganda. And tolerate zero leftist agiprop.

I would have a special section for NRA members etc.

That's my story I'm sticking to it.

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 10-10-2019 at 4:35 PM..
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  #331  
Old 10-07-2019, 5:56 AM
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Frankly, Iíve given up. In our last big election, it was ballot initiatives that passed the most radical, sweeping anti-gun legislation in California history. That was by the people, not the politicians. The electorate has changed. The culture has changed. For example, the same electorate in the same election voted FOR increased gasoline taxes, and legalized the recreational use of marijuana. Now I see massive roadside billboards advertising marijuana. I see tent cities springing up everywhere. Major cities with human feces on the sidewalks. Heroine addicts openly shooting up, leaving their HIV and Hep-C needles strewn about in parks and playgrounds. Disease, lawlessness, and poverty are rampant. My native home has changed far too much to call it home anymore. Iím not represented by the politicians, the culture, or the people. California doesnít have a 2A problem, that is but one symptom of a deep sickness that has stricken this once great state. I donít see any solution, but to leave.
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  #332  
Old 10-07-2019, 7:26 AM
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I vote to shut down OT. Yep I said that.
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  #333  
Old 10-07-2019, 7:38 AM
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Originally Posted by August View Post
I vote to shut down OT. Yep I said that.
You're free to ignore that section.
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  #334  
Old 10-07-2019, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate View Post


I literally laughed out loud when I read this. For sooooo many reasons...


So, um. Look in the upper left of this post. I put my money where my mouth is.

What about you? Are you all talk and no bank? (So many conservative men are, it seems... )

Kate
I am glad you appreciated the humor at the last sentence. Been watching too many westerns this week.
My many contributions don't need banners or outward acknowledgement. However since you asked, I am a lifetime NRA member and also a life of duty member (LE). I foster youth (mostly girls from 3-16) and with the wife, take them to the range to counter/dispel the myths surrounding firearms. Self protection, self esteem and education I try to arm them with so when they get out on their own they don't follow the same path they were headed towards.

I hope that clears things up.
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  #335  
Old 10-07-2019, 9:19 AM
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Kes, if you really look at the timeline, things went to crap when the 2A orgs started fighting against each other.

I see this same divide from customers who will say they HATE the NRA and support other groups or the other way around.

We look like the Democrats vying for position. See the situation between Pelosi and the 4 idiot congresswomen, AOC and company.

Just my observation seeing this everyday.
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  #336  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvdirtbiker View Post
Frankly, Iíve given up. In our last big election, it was ballot initiatives that passed the most radical, sweeping anti-gun legislation in California history. That was by the people, not the politicians. The electorate has changed. The culture has changed. For example, the same electorate in the same election voted FOR increased gasoline taxes, and legalized the recreational use of marijuana. Now I see massive roadside billboards advertising marijuana. I see tent cities springing up everywhere. Major cities with human feces on the sidewalks. Heroine addicts openly shooting up, leaving their HIV and Hep-C needles strewn about in parks and playgrounds. Disease, lawlessness, and poverty are rampant. My native home has changed far too much to call it home anymore. Iím not represented by the politicians, the culture, or the people. California doesnít have a 2A problem, that is but one symptom of a deep sickness that has stricken this once great state. I donít see any solution, but to leave.
to be fair to the VOTERS whom ever they maybe, these were deceitfully written or described on the ballot, and a carefully written rider that almost caught no attention, with the paid for by the state advertisements and the sneaky ways of Moonbeam it amazed me that more did not get added, This was probably just a test to see what Nuisanceom could get away with in the next election, EVERY ONE needs to READ what each measure actually has sneaking along with it before casting your vote

I really do agree this is NOT my California, I was born and raised in California but don't seem to live there anymore
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  #337  
Old 10-07-2019, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnysmarine View Post
to be fair to the VOTERS whom ever they maybe, these were deceitfully written or described on the ballot, and a carefully written rider that almost caught no attention, with the paid for by the state advertisements and the sneaky ways of Moonbeam it amazed me that more did not get added, This was probably just a test to see what Nuisanceom could get away with in the next election, EVERY ONE needs to READ what each measure actually has sneaking along with it before casting your vote

I really do agree this is NOT my California, I was born and raised in California but don't seem to live there anymore
it's always safe to vote no on everything.
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..not only am I a terrorist I'm a Director of a terrorist organization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
You're letting shallow politics influence your gasp of facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Anyone not voting Brown is putting other things above gun rights.
Whitman + Cooley or Harris = a rash of gun control California has never seen the likes of.
-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
If you're not voting why are you even opining?
Brown has a track record of not bowing to Dem pressure on guns.
-Gene
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  #338  
Old 10-07-2019, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagearms View Post
I am glad you appreciated the humor at the last sentence. Been watching too many westerns this week.
My many contributions don't need banners or outward acknowledgement. However since you asked, I am a lifetime NRA member and also a life of duty member (LE). I foster youth (mostly girls from 3-16) and with the wife, take them to the range to counter/dispel the myths surrounding firearms. Self protection, self esteem and education I try to arm them with so when they get out on their own they don't follow the same path they were headed towards.

I hope that clears things up.
OUTSTANDING!!!

I expect we are not so far apart as you might expect.

Thank you for responding!

Kate
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  #339  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:23 PM
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Keep it civil, keep it clean. Express what is on your heart. Vote. Write to your legislators. And keep it up.
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  #340  
Old 10-09-2019, 7:57 AM
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Kestryll, I have observations more than suggestions I guess.

Personally I feel guilty from my current lack of participation. I was doing everything I could until my TBI reached a point where I had to step away. I sent folks here at every opportunity. I handed out Calguns brochures and business cards frequently. I had various gun shops posting them and handing them out. I hosted various Calguns meetings at my church in Monrovia. I also promoted CRPA and NRA.

As for the NRA of which I am a Life Member. The NRA has to be supported regardless of how we perceive their help. The NRA is the big dog taking most of the fire which allows other organizations to function somewhat more unimpeded.

The only reason I even heard of the CRPA was because of Calguns, as a result of the membership drive on here I became a Life Member of CRPA.

I'm also an annual member of GOA and FPC.

As I talked to folks, Calguns was/is perceived as eating their own with the in fighting and member bans. Newby's were attacked rather than coached if they asked a dumb question or used improper terminology. It caused folks to stray away or avoid it all together. Most folks can get beating anywhere so why come here for it.

I agree with having conversations on all sides of issues (when you want to) so you know the mind of your opponent, but the political divide on here caused a divide period.

We get enough anti-2A, anti-Originalist and anti-American garbage shoved down our throats at every turn in this state. So when Calgunners were on here supporting Jerry Brown for governor that caused a divide.
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  #341  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:28 AM
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^^^^^^This.
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  #342  
Old 10-09-2019, 1:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnysmarine View Post
to be fair to the VOTERS whom ever they maybe, these were deceitfully written or described on the ballot, and a carefully written rider that almost caught no attention, with the paid for by the state advertisements and the sneaky ways of Moonbeam it amazed me that more did not get added, This was probably just a test to see what Nuisanceom could get away with in the next election, EVERY ONE needs to READ what each measure actually has sneaking along with it before casting your vote

I really do agree this is NOT my California, I was born and raised in California but don't seem to live there anymore
Oh I hold the voters 100% responsible for any ballot initiative they pass, or donít pass.
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  #343  
Old 10-09-2019, 7:01 PM
idlplumb idlplumb is offline
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Maybe Iím crazy, but I think we should invite MORE of the anti-2A crowd into the forum. I believe that we if we can open the dialogue while not being rude to each other, we can should them that we arenít the devil and not as evil as the media makes us out to be.

Instead of trying to ďbeatĒ them in discussions by waving stats in their faces, we can just open it to friendly dialogue and both sides can listen and learn from each other. If the politicians wonít support us and our rights, maybe the citizens can and we can get more support for the next vote.

I could be wrong, but the way weíve been doing things up to now hasnít been gaining support from the neutral and anti-gunners and maybe this could open the doors to get people to change their minds. If something isnít working, you donít keep doing it, you change something to make your goals a reality.


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  #344  
Old 10-10-2019, 8:20 AM
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Originally Posted by crin63 View Post
As I talked to folks, Calguns was/is perceived as eating their own with the in fighting and member bans. Newbys were attacked rather than coached if they asked a dumb question or used improper terminology. It caused folks to stray away or avoid it all together. Most folks can get beating anywhere so why come here for it.
I'm shocked by this, SHOCKED I SAY! Infighting and member bans? Wow, who knew?

Good post!
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  #345  
Old 10-11-2019, 3:50 PM
LeftCoastShooter LeftCoastShooter is offline
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Returning to the original topic, and just my $0.02:

Mr. Kestryl and the CalGuns Elite are really rolling the rock uphill every day. From my experience, pro-2A or pro-gun or conservative types are naturally, well, conservative. We don't generally feel the need to put on boa feathers and march around the neighborhood, or block freeways during commute traffic, because we have jobs and I [for one] would rather be at the range than playing at Screaming Campus Garbage Baby.

But it's those people that get ranges and LGSs closed.

I would love to share knowledge I've developed regarding "rolling your own" but I live in a community, we live in a State, where that kind of discussion brings unwanted attention from the boss and, perhaps, The Boss. I won't even use the [perhaps] prohibited words in this post, because Bad People read/webcrawl these forums, and my contact info is just a subpoena away from CalGuns and my ISP coughing up my info to them.

I'm very leary of posting my experiences for general consumption, and equally leary of communicating via IM, PM or in person. AND THIS IS FOR A PERFECTLY LEGAL ACTIVITY.

Pro-gun folks, conservatives, have to slowly get to know and trust each other, because we can be ratted out at any time by: 1) coworkers and neighbors that overhear "those" conversations; 2) moderates/pro-Corporate liberals [and some cops] that think gun owners are a threat to All That Is Correct; and 3) other gun owners and conservatives that don't appreciate that I am not/don't [fill in the blank]. One good snitch gets a local DA or Fed prosecutor easy stats, time in front of the camera, and a future in politics.

Heck, I didn't even apply for a post-Heller CCW, because my local Sheriff is rabidly anti-gun and could conceivably use my CCW app to work up a case. [I have several out-of-state CCWs without issue so far, tho.]

Someday, when I grow up and have "disposable income" [whatever that is], I hope to contribute to CalGuns and other non-NRA gun-rights orgs; personally, LaPierre's behavior doesn't work for me. But, that well ain't dug yet, so to speak.

I grew up in CA, spent most of my life here, raised our kids here. [Only later in their lives were my kids even aware of my interest in/participation with guns, because the wrong word or phrase to a teacher, doctor/nurse or peer could result in some of those above-mentioned easy stats for the DA.] I've lost all hope for CA, and we're outta here as soon as we can. But with so many CA transplants, a lot of red states are purple in the urban centers...

So, how to fix this? I have no idea. I read threads here occasionally, get fed up with the trolls, the holier-than-thou posters, and the word parsers - just like I do in almost all the comment sections of my favorite websites. So, I just tune out and stop logging in, unless I need to search out some stuff. And plan to get out of here ASAFP.

We are often our own worst enemies, even on top of our natural peculiarities.

Thus the ultimate conundrum.
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  #346  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by idlplumb View Post
Maybe Iím crazy, but I think we should invite MORE of the anti-2A crowd into the forum. I believe that we if we can open the dialogue while not being rude to each other, we can should them that we arenít the devil and not as evil as the media makes us out to be.

Instead of trying to ďbeatĒ them in discussions by waving stats in their faces, we can just open it to friendly dialogue and both sides can listen and learn from each other. If the politicians wonít support us and our rights, maybe the citizens can and we can get more support for the next vote.

I could be wrong, but the way weíve been doing things up to now hasnít been gaining support from the neutral and anti-gunners and maybe this could open the doors to get people to change their minds. If something isnít working, you donít keep doing it, you change something to make your goals a reality.


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The difficulty is that those who have made up their minds to be antis aren't going to see what is happening.

Think about it for a minute. You're right in that just waving stats in their faces may not be the right idea, but facts are facts. Stats can be used incorrectly, but I only use FBI crime stats as reported, something that is easily available, and they don't see it for the numbers in their face.

The reason for it is a fundamental difference in how the liberals see the world. Everyone has to be inherently equal and if they're not, then government must intervene to make it so. People are inherently good and just make mistakes and need to be given second chances. In the school districts, it's called "restorative justice" and it applies to everyone, regardless of how many times they make the same bad choices.

Traditional conservatives believe that you make your own fortunes...in that you work hard, become educated or gain experience, and become better and better at what you do and become a productive member of society. Government needs to stay out of it. They believe that punitive justice is the best practice especially for repeat offenders, because, after all, if you're going to keep making the same criminal "mistake", you need to pay for it.

I hope I don't catch too much heat for overgeneralizing, and I apologize if I'm going too general, but there are some fundamental differences that must be centralized and it won't happen. especially since most of the moderates are gone and now you're left with ultra left and right.

If I'm not mistaken, this is why many believe this state is done and that one of two things will happen:

1. CA becomes Venezuela
or
2. A financial, political or physical civil war.
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  #347  
Old 10-13-2019, 5:05 PM
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A very good, and meaningful post there, Supersapper!
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  #348  
Old 10-15-2019, 5:00 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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Is this still the road this community wants to follow or should we pick a new path?
Stay the course, adapt where necessary.
Quote:
Should we refocus towards a single political ideology or Party?
No
I think hearing both sides of the 2A debate is important no matter what side your on.
Quote:
Should we forego the family and workplace friendly requirements expecting that younger members now are more 'worldly' and parents won't mind them seeing adult language, images and topics here?
No
God, Family, Guns. My opinion is using adult language, images, and topics would hurt the community overall. Let people that would like to share that do it via PM or other means.
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Should we limit discussion to solely pro-2A and not allow members to post opinions and views that aren't pro 2A?
No
While I am pro-2A I don't expect anyone else to be. I wouldn't force someone to use firearms and I would hope the other side wouldn't force anyone to give up their 2nd amendment.
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Should we loosen or remove the rules mandating civil discussion and behavior among members, allow insults, name calling and rude posts?
No
Civil discourse should be important to any gun owner.
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Should we focus more on being a 'gun talk' community and less on 2A rights, moving towards being a social community rather than a civil rights focused community?
Yes and NO
I say both. Kestryll is right we are in a bad situation. We should be focused on civil rights. Being newer to this community I am still figuring out how to be active in the civil rights aspect beyond paying dues to the NRA or another gun rights advocacy group. I wan't my son to have his right when I am gone.
I like gun talk too but there won't be any gun talk if people loose their civil liberties. Let people know how they can get involved and keep the gun talk forums.
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  #349  
Old 10-15-2019, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by f1tzg3r4ld View Post
Stay the course, adapt where necessary.
You are living on a prayer. It's best to get out now before the CA real estate crash.

This State will be poor folks and rich folks with no middle class.
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  #350  
Old 10-15-2019, 8:12 PM
f1tzg3r4ld f1tzg3r4ld is offline
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You are living on a prayer. It's best to get out now before the CA real estate crash.

This State will be poor folks and rich folks with no middle class.
I have seriously considered trying to move out of California. Maybe when my son is out of school. If pro 2A residents keep moving out of California how long would it be until I have to move states again. It just seems like the attack on the 2nd amendment is going to spread like herpes.
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  #351  
Old 10-18-2019, 8:29 AM
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It is my belief that the reason we are not "engaged" in pro 2A actions is simple.

This state has lost the fight. The war, will be won, or lost, at the federal level. No actions taken in Sacramento will, at this point, be effective.

The gun community has no representation in this state.
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  #352  
Old 10-18-2019, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Vandikar1 View Post
It is my belief that the reason we are not "engaged" in pro 2A actions is simple.

This state has lost the fight. The war, will be won, or lost, at the federal level. No actions taken in Sacramento will, at this point, be effective.

The gun community has no representation in this state.
My fear is that in the finality even if/when there is Federal action, they will dump it back to "states rights" or some form there of.

Respectfully
Kyle
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  #353  
Old 10-21-2019, 1:40 AM
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There are many of us who are just disheartened.

I was an avid and active worker on the Veto Gunmageddon movement.
With us on "all hands on deck" and then suffering a heart attack, the myocardial infarction that followed... I believe most of us are still in a state of rehab and recovery.
What direction should we go? I honestly don't know.

I just know that it would help all of us if we saw something to live for.
If that something brings hope... I still have my local brotherhood contacts from Veto. I believe I can voice a collective opinion when I say "We can do it again."
But, what rallying cry is there left?
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  #354  
Old 10-27-2019, 6:47 PM
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Perhaps we need a section for assembling actually data, not the skewed data the anti's like to use.

Having it all in one place would make finding it easier.
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We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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  #355  
Old 10-28-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ugly Hombre View Post
***"100% agreed. Stop pampering fork tongued leftists who come in here trashing the NRA and complaining about gun rights being taken away, while in the same time they stab us in the back by voting for our arch enemies: Democrat politicians. Let's be frank about them: if they would give a crap about the Second Amendment they wouldn't support the people who are sworn to destroy it. It's past time to recognize and separate those who believe guns are a Constitutionally protected right, and those who believe guns are a hobby.
I'm not advocating for kicking them out of Calguns. I love having them around, my boatswain used to say "God made imbeciles so the rest of us could have comic relief laughing at them from time to time". I'm just saying they should be put on notice what they are doing is wrong and damaging to our cause, even if their delicate feelings are hurt."*** Tankerian-

1000 percent agree, they are the reason we have lost our 2nd Amendment rights here in California.

I noticed before I was banned from OT that they would start name calling and spouting nasty stuff and then when it was given back to them and they were hammered with logic they would call foul and people fighting for the cause would be banned.

Unless you fight them back hard and give them back what they dish out we will continue to lose here in California.

The New Democrats are the self identified enemies of our Constitution.

"Hell Yes! I will Take Your AR15" Etc etc et al.

Not my board- but if it was, I would welcome all- but tolerate zero new left propaganda. And tolerate zero leftist agiprop.

I would have a special section for NRA members etc.

That's my story I'm sticking to it.
As a brother OT banned guy, I agree with your OT observations. And I'd like to add my own supposition that some might call "conspiracy theory", but I think might be closer to reality.

If I were head of a 2nd Amendment hating organization, well funded and ruthless, would I find a way to pay shills to cause division in important gun rights supporting communities like CalGuns?

I gave up on CalGuns because it is completely ineffective as an organizing entity. In no small part because of the leftists who proclaim to be 2A supporters and gun owners who constantly muddy the water.

So, I keep my eye on the new laws and prepare myself for my Cal-exit.
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  #356  
Old 10-28-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by KingChiron View Post
There are many of us who are just disheartened.

I was an avid and active worker on the Veto Gunmageddon movement.
With us on "all hands on deck" and then suffering a heart attack, the myocardial infarction that followed... I believe most of us are still in a state of rehab and recovery.
What direction should we go? I honestly don't know.

I just know that it would help all of us if we saw something to live for.
If that something brings hope... I still have my local brotherhood contacts from Veto. I believe I can voice a collective opinion when I say "We can do it again."
But, what rallying cry is there left?
I can only offer one tiny glimmer of hope....

The Ninth Circus is becoming a little more conservative, and we may have some hope at SCOTUS. BTW Without Trump we are completely lost, so as much as he bugs me, I support Trump and I contribute to his campaign.
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  #357  
Old 10-29-2019, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
As a brother OT banned guy, I agree with your OT observations. And I'd like to add my own supposition that some might call "conspiracy theory", but I think might be closer to reality.



If I were head of a 2nd Amendment hating organization, well funded and ruthless, would I find a way to pay shills to cause division in important gun rights supporting communities like CalGuns?



I gave up on CalGuns because it is completely ineffective as an organizing entity. In no small part because of the leftists who proclaim to be 2A supporters and gun owners who constantly muddy the water.



So, I keep my eye on the new laws and prepare myself for my Cal-exit.

You know, I think a big part of the problem rests silently underneath and within your comments, and to your credit, sir.

I recently was Ďassaultedí on a thread for deriding someone who, potentially was rightly uptight about his treatment at GunsDirect during an attempted PPT gone amok. He acted like a whining *****, and I am convinced that he had more to do with their response, ill advised or otherwise, to his behavior.

Well, there was a mostly silent contingent on the sidelines, and then there was me. You see, in order to gain recourse, he contacted and was encouraged to contact the DOJ BOF, rather than simply going to the standard course of BBB, and civil court as one would do in any like matter.

I argued vociferously against the approach for many reasons, yet was dealt moronic blows in return. my reasons were mostly based around the larger idea of freedom, and the necessity to post strong opposition to ANY encroachment upon liberty of private property as equivalent to an encroachment on the rights of gun owners.

We canít be a only monologue narrative for one item of a vast foundation for a mega-system such as the US Constitution, blindly thinking that ours is not a larger purpose than solely the defense of what most, even here, donít fully understand at its core: 2A.

Further, the guys that created the mess, the same that we normally, righteously lambast at every corner, are being called to bail out this fool? Their reasoning was that it was THEIR RIGHT to have this dealer do the transfer at whatever price and at THEIR direction. SMH

They claimed that the dealer must be making a fortune by virtue of the DOJ BOF regs and therefore should welcome the biz and be forced to do it...

Really???

Iíll leave the balance of the deduction to you... Iím in your camp, if I wasnít clear, however.

Danny

(Kestryll- I learned my lesson- can I have my damn name bacc?)




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  #358  
Old 10-29-2019, 4:02 PM
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You are correct. The Liberals escaping California still vote for the Progressives in their new state. Look what has happened to Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Texas & Arizona are shifting Blue.... you can't escape.
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  #359  
Old 10-30-2019, 3:15 PM
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You are correct. The Liberals escaping California still vote for the Progressives in their new state. Look what has happened to Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Texas & Arizona are shifting Blue.... you can't escape.
You can't escape all of it, but these other states have a long way to go to become California. You see, its not JUST the gun laws that have destroyed CA from a quality of life perspective, its almost every thing the politicians have done here.
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  #360  
Old 11-09-2019, 3:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nvdirtbiker View Post
Frankly, I’ve given up. In our last big election, it was ballot initiatives that passed the most radical, sweeping anti-gun legislation in California history. That was by the people, not the politicians. The electorate has changed. The culture has changed. For example, the same electorate in the same election voted FOR increased gasoline taxes, and legalized the recreational use of marijuana. Now I see massive roadside billboards advertising marijuana. I see tent cities springing up everywhere. Major cities with human feces on the sidewalks. Heroine addicts openly shooting up, leaving their HIV and Hep-C needles strewn about in parks and playgrounds. Disease, lawlessness, and poverty are rampant. My native home has changed far too much to call it home anymore. I’m not represented by the politicians, the culture, or the people. California doesn’t have a 2A problem, that is but one symptom of a deep sickness that has stricken this once great state. I don’t see any solution, but to leave.
Late to the thread, but just wanted to say I totally agree with you. I left CA a few months ago and am in Nevada. Some of us here worry about NV following in CA's footsteps, so we have to be vigilant.

Still not used to walking into a gun store and seeing everything not on CA's roster. I was talking with an Calif ex-neighbor a few days ago. He was telling me about the difficulties in obtaining a Sig P365, needing a family member out of state to buy and transfer using the intra-familial process. I couldn't resist telling him I went to my favorite shop, bought a P365 SAS, waited for the state and federal background check, which took all of 10 minutes, and walked out with the gun.

I had some difficulty getting off the LA County voter roll. Maybe there were some admin screw-ups, but I suspected a tactic to use departed voters to enable someone else to vote in my place. Anyway, that led to me starting a Facebook group for either those who left CA or those thinking of leaving, discussing various issues.
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