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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-09-2018, 1:11 AM
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Default Valkyrie .224 upper

The Valkyrie .224 AR variant is getting some good buzz. Anyone given any thought to the logistics (both technical and CA legal) to integrating one of these .224 uppers with their existing lowers? If so, what have you learned?

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Old 04-09-2018, 5:52 AM
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I think it's kind of a non-issue. The reason the uppers are sold is to put them on a person's existing lower. And there is no legal blocker to doing this---based on the caliber alone. People swap uppers all the time.
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Old 04-09-2018, 6:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
I think it's kind of a non-issue. The reason the uppers are sold is to put them on a person's existing lower. And there is no legal blocker to doing this---based on the caliber alone. People swap uppers all the time.
Yeah, it pretty much looks like plug-and-play, so long as you ensure no flash hider. This one (with a muzzle break), is pretty tempting. Others out there seem pretty pricey (and/or out of stock).

Of course, the ammo is pretty rare, and from what I've found, if you want consistency, you pretty much have to reload.
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Old 04-09-2018, 7:22 AM
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I bought a 1000 rounds at the end of February without an issue. Midway had a very reasonable price per round. So far very consistent as far a spread. Didn't put it on a rest but I'm keeping it inside 8" on steel at 500 yards.
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Old 04-09-2018, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eswrite View Post
Yeah, it pretty much looks like plug-and-play, so long as you ensure no flash hider. This one (with a muzzle break), is pretty tempting. Others out there seem pretty pricey (and/or out of stock).

Of course, the ammo is pretty rare, and from what I've found, if you want consistency, you pretty much have to reload.
Or just buy a barrel and build your own. Only things different from a standard 5.56 upper assy are the barrel and bolt (the head part, not the whole BCG). And the only additional things you would need are a couple of magazines, since these fatter cartridges might require special followers, etc. So once you get that all together and head-space checked, you're in business.

In my case I would likely just convert one of my 5.56 uppers to .224V. For the time being. Like I indicated, I'd only need a barrel, bolt, and magazines. Personally, I would go with a barrel longer than 18" though. Might as well get the most out of that cartridge. Go at least 20", and maybe 22" or 24". And forget the muzzle device. They look cool but are of limited value on a rifle like this anyway. And a brake makes the rifle noisier than it needs to be.... for yourself and those around you. And a little heavier.

And BTW, a flash hider is fine, so long as your rifle has a "fixed" magazine. Or if you're registering the lower.

I'd hope that consistency is there if using Federal's match grade 90gr loads. They do offer a "plinker" American Eagle load though. 75gr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXRifleManXx View Post
I bought a 1000 rounds at the end of February without an issue. Midway had a very reasonable price per round. So far very consistent as far a spread. Didn't put it on a rest but I'm keeping it inside 8" on steel at 500 yards.
In February? I assume you have an FFL license of some kind?

And which Federal loading you use to get those groups?
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Ki6vsm View Post
Or just buy a barrel and build your own. Only things different from a standard 5.56 upper assy are the barrel and bolt (the head part, not the whole BCG). And the only additional things you would need are a couple of magazines, since these fatter cartridges might require special followers, etc. So once you get that all together and head-space checked, you're in business.

In my case I would likely just convert one of my 5.56 uppers to .224V. For the time being. Like I indicated, I'd only need a barrel, bolt, and magazines. Personally, I would go with a barrel longer than 18" though. Might as well get the most out of that cartridge. Go at least 20", and maybe 22" or 24". And forget the muzzle device. They look cool but are of limited value on a rifle like this anyway. And a brake makes the rifle noisier than it needs to be.... for yourself and those around you. And a little heavier.

And BTW, a flash hider is fine, so long as your rifle has a "fixed" magazine. Or if you're registering the lower.

I'd hope that consistency is there if using Federal's match grade 90gr loads. They do offer a "plinker" American Eagle load though. 75gr?


In February? I assume you have an FFL license of some kind?

And which Federal loading you use to get those groups?
Fusion 90 grain. I haven't shot any of the match yet and the American eagle is just plinking but was making consistent hits. And my lgs was more then happy to receive the ammo without charging.
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:47 AM
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Fusion 90 grain. I haven't shot any of the match yet and the American eagle is just plinking but was making consistent hits. And my lgs was more then happy to receive the ammo without charging.
Thanks for getting back with that info. Might be a plan that will work for some of us as well. And that hunting load sounds like it shoots pretty darrned well.

Geez, I just went to a couple of the local shops this morning to get a feel for ammo availability. Only the local Turner's had any .224V. The 90 grain SMK match type. Only two boxes in stock. $30/box. Ouch. That's a lot of money for "AR" ammo. And they didn't have any 6.5 Grendel, which I'm also curious about.
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Old 04-09-2018, 12:06 PM
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Thanks for getting back with that info. Might be a plan that will work for some of us as well. And that hunting load sounds like it shoots pretty darrned well.

Geez, I just went to a couple of the local shops this morning to get a feel for ammo availability. Only the local Turner's had any .224V. The 90 grain SMK match type. Only two boxes in stock. $30/box. Ouch. That's a lot of money for "AR" ammo. And they didn't have any 6.5 Grendel, which I'm also curious about.
I ordered a case (10 boxes) of the American Eagle 70gr TMJ from Turners and got it a few days later. I have a case of 90gr SMK Federal on order but also have a couple of boxes for testing this week.
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Old 04-10-2018, 7:31 AM
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Originally Posted by xXRifleManXx View Post
Fusion 90 grain. I haven't shot any of the match yet and the American eagle is just plinking but was making consistent hits. And my lgs was more then happy to receive the ammo without charging.
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Originally Posted by jimster716 View Post
I ordered a case (10 boxes) of the American Eagle 70gr TMJ from Turners and got it a few days later. I have a case of 90gr SMK Federal on order but also have a couple of boxes for testing this week.
This is interesting. I hope they're all as accommodating. I'd think this would be the case especially if it's something they don't stock, or don't sell much of. As I said, my local Turner's counter guy said he's never even seen 6.5G on the shelf there in the time he's been at that store. And those two boxes of .224V match ammo have been sitting there for months. So neither caliber seems to be very popular in these parts.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:18 AM
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This is interesting. I hope they're all as accommodating. I'd think this would be the case especially if it's something they don't stock, or don't sell much of. As I said, my local Turner's counter guy said he's never even seen 6.5G on the shelf there in the time he's been at that store. And those two boxes of .224V match ammo have been sitting there for months. So neither caliber seems to be very popular in these parts.
We will have "arrived" when Walmart stocks .224. I'm fortunate enough to live close to a Walmart that sells ammo. Their prices beat Turner's, even when the latter is having a sale.

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Old 04-10-2018, 11:43 AM
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This is interesting. I hope they're all as accommodating. I'd think this would be the case especially if it's something they don't stock, or don't sell much of. As I said, my local Turner's counter guy said he's never even seen 6.5G on the shelf there in the time he's been at that store. And those two boxes of .224V match ammo have been sitting there for months. So neither caliber seems to be very popular in these parts.
.224 has been on the market for all of two months or so..and it's not like every AR shop is building for a new caliber when the can't even sell the products they have as well as 18 months ago.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:48 AM
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This is interesting. I hope they're all as accommodating. I'd think this would be the case especially if it's something they don't stock, or don't sell much of. As I said, my local Turner's counter guy said he's never even seen 6.5G on the shelf there in the time he's been at that store. And those two boxes of .224V match ammo have been sitting there for months. So neither caliber seems to be very popular in these parts.
You're acting as if Turners is the arbiter of all things firearms. Get out of the Turners bubble and you'll be better off.
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:50 AM
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We will have "arrived" when Walmart stocks .224. I'm fortunate enough to live close to a Walmart that sells ammo. Their prices beat Turner's, even when the latter is having a sale.
I haven't been into my nearby Walmart lately. They used to sell ammo. I think they still do.

But I have the impression that the other two members got more favorable "online" prices for their big orders, from who knows where. Midway or Palmetto perhaps. I assume those companies still ship to FFLs in CA. If too many people start asking to use the stores as a ship-to point, the stores will start getting smart and charge a nominal fee. That would actually seem kinda fair to me.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:36 PM
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22 Nosler....forgotten
22-45 Sharps...forgotten

I'll wait a few years before even considering .224Val
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Old 04-10-2018, 1:07 PM
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You're acting as if Turners is the arbiter of all things firearms. Get out of the Turners bubble and you'll be better off.
What? No I am not. You assume way too much. I Just go in there occasionally to buy powder---It's one of the few shops in town that still sells it. And it was on my route yesterday. I only mentioned it again because the other member said he'd had his ammo order shipped there.

And you have to remember that this whole no-online-ammo law has gotten us all into the position of figuring out new ways of doing things.
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Old 04-10-2018, 1:18 PM
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22 Nosler....forgotten
22-45 Sharps...forgotten

I'll wait a few years before even considering .224Val
I hear you... we share the lack of the early adopter gene.

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Old 04-10-2018, 1:22 PM
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22 Nosler....forgotten
22-45 Sharps...forgotten

I'll wait a few years before even considering .224Val
Yeah. Good point. And it's another thing in favor of 6.5 Grendel as an alternative long-range option. Been around longer and has more mfrs involved.

Although of the two shops I swung by yesterday, neither had 6.5G in stock. I'm just using this info as an initial gauge. Things might improve.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:34 PM
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Whacking steel at 600 yards with the PSA upper:



It would have been nice to see some groups, but it looked like 600 yards was pretty easy.
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Old 04-14-2018, 4:33 PM
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Whacking steel at 600 yards with the PSA upper:
If you think that's impressive, check it out at 1,000 yards:
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Old 04-14-2018, 8:08 PM
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JP Rifles is supposedly coming out with a .224 Valkyrie upper. In other words, a high-end semi-custom upper will soon change the game for AR platform long range shooting.
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Old 04-21-2018, 9:13 PM
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JP Rifles is supposedly coming out with a .224 Valkyrie upper. In other words, a high-end semi-custom upper will soon change the game for AR platform long range shooting.
Palmetto State Armory (PSA) has a couple of 20" options:
Note how these state you need 6.8 SPC mags, which Calegalmags lists here in 10 round configurations.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:09 PM
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PSA and JP are not really in the same class.
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:40 PM
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^ And that's a good thing. It means there's options on both ends of the price spectrum.
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Old 04-22-2018, 9:00 AM
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PSA and JP are not really in the same class.
I take it PSA is the low end provider? What capabilities do you give up by going with them?
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:34 AM
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PSA is kind of a "value" supplier, in my opinion anyway. Gets the job done, generally.

Regarding any upper, it's all about the barrel. And with these PSA uppers, it isn't really clear what you're getting. And "A2" style? I assume that means thin under the handguard; standard Gov't profile. Never seen that with a stainless barrel. And it's not something you would want.
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Old 04-23-2018, 3:56 PM
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Following up.... Here's a page showing that PSA A2 type barrel. Yep. Looks "A2" to me. Kinda odd that they bothered to make this commercial stainless "accuracy" barrel with that relief. Doesn't mean it won't shoot well though.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-1...165447820.html
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:28 AM
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Had this high-velocity carbine idea that I've been wondering about...

Could you take a basic stainless 20" 5.56 1:9 barrel, cut and rechamber it as a 16" mid-length 224 valkyrie?
How fast could you get 55 fmj's out of that? 3400-3500 fps?

I think that would make it a very unique setup for defending your home against any type of home invasion.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:39 AM
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^^^ I know it's been done, but cutting down a rifle-gas barrel to 16" might not be a very reliable setup---can't say if it's even been tried yet with .224V. Why not just start with a 16" midlength barrel?

IMO, uniqueness doesn't really have any value at all when we're talking home defense. Off the shelf stuff will work just as well or better.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:57 PM
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I was thinking of a budget setup,
But yeah...starting off with a new barrel is ideal.
I just figured there's a ton of 20" 1:9 barrels out there for so cheap. Don't need a ton of accuracy for home defense.
My thought with this setup was...in some horror scenario where invaders were stacked and ready to rush your living room...all wearing level 3 body armor....there's not a lot that can get thru that in a short amount of time.
I know it's some fantasy idea...but if you were to think of the worst home defense situation, that would be it.
High speed is what gets thru rifle plates so...that's how I came up with the idea of a 16" 224 valkyrie.
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Old 04-24-2018, 1:24 PM
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Using a cartridge designed for 22-24 inch barrels in a 16 inch barrel doesn't make sense. Especially indoors.
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Old 04-24-2018, 2:13 PM
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It's not like we're talking about a 300 win mag, lol. It's still just a small amount powder. Fast rifle powder, at that.
What is another way to get a 3rd 16" barrelled semi-auto projectile to 3400+ fps with 1400+ ft lbs?

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Old 04-24-2018, 2:33 PM
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^^^ I'm not sure it's worth hacking off 4" of barrel. Just keep it at 20". I declare that in this fantasy, the rooms and hallways are slightly wider than normal. Done. No take-backs.
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Old 04-24-2018, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Mode View Post
Had this high-velocity carbine idea that I've been wondering about...

Could you take a basic stainless 20" 5.56 1:9 barrel, cut and rechamber it as a 16" mid-length 224 valkyrie?
How fast could you get 55 fmj's out of that? 3400-3500 fps?

I think that would make it a very unique setup for defending your home against any type of home invasion.
You could, but why? You'd lose the long range accuracy -- the point for .224. In fact, those in the know claim 24" is the sweet spot.
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Old 04-24-2018, 3:59 PM
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You could, but why? You'd lose the long range accuracy -- the point for .224. In fact, those in the know claim 24" is the sweet spot.
I wouldn't worry about it. Logic is taking a lunch break here.
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Old 04-24-2018, 4:27 PM
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^^^ I'm not sure it's worth hacking off 4" of barrel. Just keep it at 20". I declare that in this fantasy, the rooms and hallways are slightly wider than normal. Done. No take-backs.
Change the 4" to 5.5" and you have the m16 vs m4 argument.

I know 20" is nice. But every inch of a .224 barrel is noticeable. There's so much meat on those barrels.

But yeah...It's probably just better to do that and spit out 55 fmj's even if it's too much spin...it would be a nightmare scenario anyways.
The 99.9999% of it's life could be spent at a bench shooting 75's/80's/90's.
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