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Old 09-28-2019, 10:28 PM
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Default Anything we can learn from this weird incident?

Is there anything we can learn from this incident below?

Two off duty LEO end up in a pursuit in their POV, one attempts a "warn and advise" and the other person 245 himself with his duty gun in response.

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Old 09-28-2019, 10:33 PM
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Yeah, short of a deputy or police officer in a fight by themselves, I am not getting involved. If it does not involve my personal safety or the safety of my family members, I'm also not getting involved. I'm not there to enforce traffic off duty. If you're off duty, stay off duty. Be a professional Witness and don't get involved.

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Old 09-28-2019, 10:36 PM
elpaisa1 elpaisa1 is offline
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Yes. Leave work at work..

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Old 09-28-2019, 10:48 PM
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There's actually a lot to be learned from this.

When I was in the academy, we lost a cadet to termination who was involved in a similar situation. The DI debriefed it in very simple terms: 1) What are the risks involved in making a traffic stop while armed, in plainclothes, and without back-up? (answer - a lot). 2) What is the benefit to be gained from taking such an action? (answer - not much, if anything).

We had a very similar situation here recently where an off-duty King County Sheriff's Deputy stopped a motorcyclist at gunpoint. The motorcyclist had a helmet camera (suggestive of a set-up, but if so, it worked) that recorded the event. The were several seconds between the deputy pointing his weapon and identifying himself as a deputy. The potential for the motorcyclist to mis-identify the deputy during that gap was pretty great and could have produced a defensive shooting if the motorcyclist had been armed. In the end all that was gained was that the deputy was able to inform the motorcyclist that he was driving like a knucklehead. Given the context of the video, I doubt that there was any benefit gained from that exchange of information. In the end there was a lawsuit filed and a public apology made by the Sheriff.

You're going to get baited a lot when serving as an LEO and it's best to learn to deal with it early in one's career. I was working patrol when the ex-Hawthorne Officer Jackson was setting up his "stings" in L.A. County. I had worked with his father for several years and had a little insight into him. I recognized him driving in the area north of Hawthorne and I recognized him and his obvious attempts to bait me into stopping him. We exchanged glances at a traffic light and I told him, "no photo op today, tell Woody (his father) that I said hello." The look that he gave me was priceless.

You gotta learn not to allow yourself to be baited.
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:50 PM
esy esy is offline
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Unfortunately, I’ve heard of very similar stories of LEOs in my agency and surrounding agencies. Usually it’s an off duty LEO trying to “help” an on duty LEO. Luckily, it hasn’t ended in anyone getting shot.
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Old 09-29-2019, 2:58 PM
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One of the visiting instructors in our academy presented the following: An elderly woman is walking up the steps to her bank (it was the day her SS check was delivered and a lot of bad guys know that) when bad guy begins mugging her. You are just approaching the bank with your family and obs it, what do you do (you are an off duty, out of the academy deputy).

One cadet said ID yourself and stop the bad guy at gunpoint. Another said get your family and yourself out of the area, find a pay phone (all over the place in 1976) and spend the dime to call the local LE and advise. The instructor said getting involved can be anywhere from the second action, all the way to the first one based on the circumstances. Often times the second one is the best one he said, especially when family is present. He then told of the LASD Reserve who became involved in an off duty shootout that ended with his 4yr. old daughter being shot and killed by a bad guy.
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Old 09-29-2019, 5:15 PM
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Is the juice worth the squeeze?
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
[BTW, I have no problem seeing DEA Agents and drug cops hanging from ropes, but that's a separate political issue.]
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