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  #1  
Old 04-24-2014, 8:56 PM
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Default What should the military replace the Beretta M9 with?

Do you think we should replace the standard issue M9 for our troops? What would be your ideal handgun?
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2014, 8:58 PM
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40watt laser pistol.
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  #3  
Old 04-24-2014, 8:58 PM
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lets see how many say Glock ,and go !
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  #4  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
lets see how many say Glock ,and go !
You beat me to the obligatory glock response ;p
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  #5  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kygen View Post
You beat me to the obligatory glock response ;p
lol..



I say M&P because its not a Glock , no manual safety so I doubt it will ever happen . I forgot some do have manual safety.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
lol..



I say M&P because its not a Glock , no manual safety so I doubt it will ever happen . I forgot some do have manual safety.
I thought you could get M&Ps with manual safeties?

I'd vote M&P 9s. I'd say Glock, but it would be better to have an American company.
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Old 04-24-2014, 9:00 PM
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Cool

$1400 MK25?

.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:04 PM
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9mm Hi-Points.

The enemy will die because of the ugliness.
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:57 AM
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9mm Hi-Points.

The enemy will die because of the ugliness.
Well each guy could have 4-5 each. Maybe not a bad idea!
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by orangeusa View Post
$1400 MK25?

.
I paid $750 for mine via Gun Broker without the Kalifornia Girlyman features. SIGs are viable replacement as they are multi-caliber either with a barrel swap or an exchange kit.

Last edited by cire raeb; 04-27-2014 at 11:39 AM..
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  #11  
Old 04-29-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
lets see how many say Glock ,and go !
while it may not be the glock, it would be a fairly safe bet that when we do move away from the M9, it will be to something like a glock or a s&w m&p type pistol.

right now there really isn't a pressing need to move from the m9.
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2014, 8:59 PM
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They will stay with the 9mm, no matter what sidearm they use, because of NATO. Only the Special Ops guys will get to pick and choose.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:04 PM
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CZ SP-01
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:07 PM
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CZ SP-01
Ah, good choice ?
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2014, 10:24 AM
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CZ SP-01
This or the CZ P-01.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2014, 10:26 AM
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CZ SP-01


Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
This or the CZ P-01.
Why would they go with a compact?
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2014, 10:38 AM
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Why would they go with a compact?
Because the sp01 is back ordered duh po1's easier to find!! All jokes asides other would fit the bill nicely. On the p01 is less then 2in shorter then the all steel sp01. Why not other one?
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  #18  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:04 PM
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P226, in various forms for different applications.
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  #19  
Old 04-28-2014, 3:29 PM
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P226, in various forms for different applications.
Never happen. The gun is simply too expensive, is not ambidextrous, and doesn't have a safety.

Besides, the M9 is a fine handgun and I don't see it being replaced in the forseeable future.
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  #20  
Old 04-28-2014, 3:48 PM
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[P226] is simply too expensive, is not ambidextrous, and doesn't have a safety.
For being "too expensive", just do what old armies do: put out a list of approved equipment that folks can choose from. In the old days (using Boer War as example), a British officer is authorized to carry a Mauser C96, Enfield revolver, Webley revolver.

I shoot the Sig P-series ambi depending on the corner I'm rounding. To eject mag with left hand, use left trigger finger (some comp shooters actually prefer this and do this with their strong hand too). To send slide home, sling shot instead of using slide stop/release.

Who needs a safety when you have a 10lb DA trigger. No way that thing is going off "accidentally" unless you're an idiot.

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  #21  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:05 PM
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Glock 17, just like the British Army just did.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2014, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RangemasterP226 View Post
Glock 17, just like the British Army just did.
Browning Hi-Power.

Just to screw with the Brits.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rambutan316 View Post
Do you think we should replace the standard issue M9 for our troops? What would be your ideal handgun?
They should stick with the M9. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, especially not on my tax payer dollars!
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  #24  
Old 04-25-2014, 6:17 PM
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They should stick with the M9. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, especially not on my tax payer dollars!
This ^^^^ 100%!
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2014, 7:53 AM
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They should stick with the M9. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, especially not on my tax payer dollars!
Great point.
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2014, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
They should stick with the M9. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, especially not on my tax payer dollars!
It's broke big time! As a former owner, and former service member who was issued the M9, not a fan of this gun at all.

Additionally, even with the improvements in training since 9/11 our troops simply do not get enough training on the handgun (or rifle for that matter) before being issued one and sent out into the field. Most only touch the gun once a year - then when they deploy they get handed one and are expected to be competent with it. It is a receipt for disasster. They get some initial training, then they qet an annual refresher once a year before re-qualifying to standards that are appallingly easy to meet and actually translate in a lot of shots being sent "to whom it may concern". Not to mention the qualification training and qualification test is setup for flat range use more than real life situations. It's easy to be safe on a flat range with instructors telling you want to do and when to do it. It's a lot harder out in the real world.

So if, and only if the training for any and all troops being issued a handgun would also be drastically improved, then I would definitely recommend a faster easier gun to use like a Glock or even S&W M&P. But if the training is going to remain as rudimentary as it is for the vast majority of service men and women...then not a chance. As insane as it is to depend on a mechanical safety, and as slow as the gun is to use compared to other options, from a number cruncher perspective it does cut down on NDs.

I know my comments are gonna tick a lot people who served off. Especially those who were poorly trained but think they are bad asses. I used to be them. I served. I even received increased training because my unit qualified for it. Even that was pretty pathetic compared to what is available in the civilian world these days. You don't know what you don't know until you get exposed to it. I thought I was a bad *** and perfectly well trained...until I trained with people who were actually proficient and competent. It was a rude awakening. I had no idea just how poorly trained I was. Once I did become proficient, it was really scary to look back and see how crappy my skill level was...and I was carrying a weapon in hot zones where one screw up could have caused an international incident...or caused injury to myself or others. I was blissfully ignorant of it all.

So my main concern is not as much changing what handgun gets issued, though if I were still in uniform and had my current level of training I would prefer a Glock. My main concern would constantly be DRASTICALLY improving the quality and level of training troops get. Spend the money on ammo for training. Spend the money on kill houses and advanced level training ESPECIALLY for those in a front line unit but also for those in support units as they are increasingly finding themselves in harms way. More than anything, get away from the flat range mentality and focus on instilling real world scenarios and techniques that teach people who to actually be safe out there, and not just on a flat range.

The truth is, as budget cuts come this is the very first thing that gets thrown to the way side. My "specialized" unit initially could train whenever we felt like it. We had a blank check for ammo. Then we got further into the Clinton administrations time in power and the budget got cut more and more. We went from training daily, to weekly, to monthly, to biannually, to annually like everybody else. It was a far cry from being enough to make us proficient.

I strongly suspect the military is experiencing the exact same thing with Obama now. Training is always the first thing to get scaled back and suffer. We always forget the lessons we learned from war. We always scale back to the point of being woefully inadequate and wonder why things are always such a cluster-f when we first go to war. Not enough of this or that, not enough troops trained to do this or that. How many times have we decommissioned and then recommissioned the A10 because some bean counter didn't think close-air ground support was important? Meanwhile special operations units don't have enough air support in Afghanistan to have multiple units operating in the region without sharing air support and QRF. We repeat these same exact mistakes over and over again. It is really frustrating.

Last edited by tacticalcity; 08-14-2014 at 3:36 PM..
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:07 PM
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P226.

/thread
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  #28  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:08 PM
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FN 5.7
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2014, 8:11 AM
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FN 5.7
+1 for the FN 5.7
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2014, 8:31 AM
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They should stick with the Beretta 9mm
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  #31  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:08 PM
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Aren't we $17,000,000,000,000 in debt?
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Old 04-24-2014, 9:11 PM
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Aren't we $17,000,000,000,000 in debt?
Yep, why stop now, It wont change anything.
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  #33  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:12 PM
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Aren't we $17,000,000,000,000 in debt?
meh - Why bring that up? I thought we were good at printing $$$.
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  #34  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:37 PM
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Aren't we $17,000,000,000,000 in debt?
NO. The actual amount is closer to $129,000,000,000,000.

Didn't you know it was possible to spend your way out of debt?




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  #35  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:10 PM
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Well, if it works, don't fix it. The Beretta is a very capable gun and has proven itself over the course of the past few decades. It had it's issues back in the day with cracked slides but other guns had problems (M16) during initial issuance, too, and they've gone on to prove themselves reliable and are still in use today.

Also, I'd imagine it'd be a lot easier to make 9mm the 'universal' pistol cartridge of the military since it's a good medium between stopping power and recoil management. It must have been stressful teaching everyone to handle a .45 back in the day since a lot of people in the military have never even fired a gun before enlisting.

Last edited by anti; 04-24-2014 at 9:12 PM..
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2014, 8:48 AM
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It must have been stressful teaching everyone to handle a .45 back in the day since a lot of people in the military have never even fired a gun before enlisting.

When I served in the early 80's, our pistol training started with safe handling training with a dummy 1911, then transitioned to live fire with a Colt Ace .22 caliber 1911, then to a .45 acp Colt 1911.


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  #37  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:14 PM
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Yeah just stuck with the m9..what negatives does it have?
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:16 PM
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Yeah just stuck with the m9..what negatives does it have?
Abolsutely none. The only thing I could see people complaining about is the weight of the gun compared to a lot of popular polymer pistols today. If anything, the weight helps control the gun and if a few pounds bothers you while it's in a holster - then quit being a weenie.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:22 PM
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Abolsutely none. The only thing I could see people complaining about is the weight of the gun compared to a lot of popular polymer pistols today. If anything, the weight helps control the gun and if a few pounds bothers you while it's in a holster - then quit being a weenie.
Said, the man that never humped a full combat load in the suck before.
Ounces matter, but as far as a combat sidearm goes. When the time is right by all means replace the Beretta. But the time is not right, yet.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:42 PM
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Said, the man that never humped a full combat load in the suck before.
Ounces matter, but as far as a combat sidearm goes. When the time is right by all means replace the Beretta. But the time is not right, yet.
I have but only during training because I got discharged early back in 2008. I lied on my medical forms to get in. It was mostly old TA50 like the LBE vest and old rucksacks with those frames that jab you..
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