List of Penal Codes

[phdo]

I’m trying to compose a list of firearms penal codes that will be useful to know. My goal is to learn them all. List the ones that you think I should learn. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about guns. If you think it’s pertinent to being a law-abiding Californian then I’m willing to learn it. Thanks.

[Lightstrider]

uh huh, sure let's get right on that!

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Originally Posted by phdo

I’m trying to compose a list of firearms penal codes that will be useful to know. My goal is to learn them all. List the ones that you think I should learn. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about guns. If you think it’s pertinent to being a law-abiding Californian then I’m willing to learn it. Thanks.

Well... I guess you could start... Here.

Of course, if you click the second option, enter the word "firearm" as your search term, you get 645 statute results using that term.

But, if you simply want the penal codes, you could go to the first one, click "penal codes," then click "part 6" to get... THIS.

Uh... Let's just say you could be tied up for awhile.

[edgerly779]

Not even cops know them. Best to print them out. To complex and to many to remember.

[phdo]

Originally Posted by edgerly779

Not even cops know them. Best to print them out. To complex and to many to remember.

Of course! I’m not trying to learn all the words of the penal codes by heart. That’s too intense. I’m trying to learn just the codes and what it pertains to.

[P5Ret]

A long time ago I learned something in a supervisor's course, and it probably applies here. "I may not know everything (and really no one does), but I do know where to look to find the answer."

Pretty much everything firearms related is in part 6 of the Ca penal code. There are also sections in other code's, but most of those don't apply in most situation's of everyday life.

[Chewy65]

This is similar to issue spotting for a lawyer. It is damn near impossible to know every law on every subject, but if can spot what may be an issue under the circumstances, you know where to look up relevant law.

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ]

Wouldn't it just be easier to buy Chuck Michel's California Gun Laws book? There is also that go-to-law-school-for-3-years-and-then-take-the-bar-exam route.

[CAL.BAR]

Not to be flippant OP, but good luck with that. Between firearms laws, knife laws, general weapons laws, safe storage laws, vehicle code, tax law, contract law and others just to start.... you will not likely ever know all the laws you might run into. Just being conversant with firearms laws is a bigger exercise than most people will ever wish to endeavor.

[71MUSTY]

Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Wouldn't it just be easier to buy Chuck Michel's California Gun Laws book? There is also that go-to-law-school-for-3-years-and-then-take-the-bar-exam route.

^^^^THIS IS A GREAT PLACE TO START. ^^^^

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Not to be flippant OP, but good luck with that. Between firearms laws, knife laws, general weapons laws, safe storage laws, vehicle code, tax law, contract law and others just to start.... you will not likely ever know all the laws you might run into. Just being conversant with firearms laws is a bigger exercise than most people will ever wish to endeavor.

Yeah, you could say that ...

Originally Posted by ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Wouldn't it just be easier to buy Chuck Michel's California Gun Laws book? There is also that go-to-law-school-for-3-years-and-then-take-the-bar-exam route.

I endorse this - I started with Machtinger's 'How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail'; his latest edition seems to be 2007, and is still mostly correct, but Chuck's is 10 years newer.

One essential point: the Legislature gets to make up its own definitions for words. So, while reading statute law might appear to be 'English', it is NOT English, and you greatly imperil yourself if you do not also read the definitions in the law.

Second essential point: the statutes (and regulations, those are laws, too) are what is called 'black letter law'. Courts get to put their spin on laws. A prominent example is People vs Clark, 1996; the court there took the 'black letter law' on what "loaded" means, and changed it. So if you look at PC 16840(b)(1), that definition has been superseded by People v Clark - and there is no obligation for the legislature to amend the Penal Code to match, nor to give notice of court rulings. That's one of the reasons you need a competent lawyer.

Third point: Legislative definitions can change from part to part inside the Penal code. That same PC 16840 has

(a) As used in Section 25800, a firearm shall be deemed to be “loaded” whenever both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person.

That bolded section is essential; there are similar qualifiers all over the codes.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Yeah, you could say that ...



I endorse this - I started with Machtinger's 'How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail'; his latest edition seems to be 2007, and is still mostly correct, but Chuck's is 10 years newer.

John's last edition was in 2012 He continued to update his website until late 2016 or early 2017.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by phdo

I’m trying to compose a list of firearms penal codes that will be useful to know. My goal is to learn them all. List the ones that you think I should learn. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about guns. If you think it’s pertinent to being a law-abiding Californian then I’m willing to learn it. Thanks.

Don't forget California Code of Regulations too. Then, there's also case law you'll need to know.

[CAL.BAR]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Yeah, you could say that ...



I endorse this - I started with Machtinger's 'How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail'; his latest edition seems to be 2007, and is still mostly correct, but Chuck's is 10 years newer.

One essential point: the Legislature gets to make up its own definitions for words. So, while reading statute law might appear to be 'English', it is NOT English, and you greatly imperil yourself if you do not also read the definitions in the law.

Second essential point: the statutes (and regulations, those are laws, too) are what is called 'black letter law'. Courts get to put their spin on laws. A prominent example is People vs Clark, 1996; the court there took the 'black letter law' on what "loaded" means, and changed it. So if you look at PC 16840(b)(1), that definition has been superseded by People v Clark - and there is no obligation for the legislature to amend the Penal Code to match, nor to give notice of court rulings. That's one of the reasons you need a competent lawyer.

Third point: Legislative definitions can change from part to part inside the Penal code. That same PC 16840 has That bolded section is essential; there are similar qualifiers all over the codes.

GREAT Idea! That is a great starting point for firearms law (obviously pertinent to this forum).

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

John's last edition was in 2012 He continued to update his website until late 2016 or early 2017.

If I'm ever privileged to meet the man, I owe him a beer or lunch or something.

[EMP3]

Know CA Penal Code Section 4. It's the Penal Code's most important section.

[SailorDan]

I'm finally getting off my can and ordering Michel's book (with CRPA amazon smile).

Is Machtinger's still worth getting? 7 years is an eternity in the volume of CA gun laws.

[Jimi Jah]

Originally Posted by edgerly779

Not even cops know them. Best to print them out. To complex and to many to remember.

I carry a printed out copy of the CA gun laws in my range bag. Better to argue merits on the spot rather than at the police station.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by SailorDan

I'm finally getting off my can and ordering Michel's book (with CRPA amazon smile).

Is Machtinger's still worth getting? 7 years is an eternity in the volume of CA gun laws.

Machtinger's book (in all the editions) has a lighter 'style' and in places it is easier to understand than Chuck Michel's book. For a real beginner, it may be worthwhile to get both, and read Machtinger for vocabulary and basic info on how things work before trying Michel. Chuck's book is by no means a heavy academic tract; he knows his audience and tries to make the subject approachable - it's the necessary content that makes that difficult in spots.

[EMP3]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Machtinger's book (in all the editions) has a lighter 'style' and in places it is easier to understand than Chuck Michel's book. For a real beginner, it may be worthwhile to get both, and read Machtinger for vocabulary and basic info on how things work before trying Michel. Chuck's book is by no means a heavy academic tract; he knows his audience and tries to make the subject approachable - it's the necessary content that makes that difficult in spots.

^^^excellent advice^^^

If a layman can't comprehend concepts conveyed, of what utility is its source?

My advice is to learn how to identify elements of crimes. After all, it's moot if there's no crime.