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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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Question about body armor I was just issued
I work for a FD that recently got rid of the body armor that was issued initially in 1994 in response to the LA riots. In response to the recent active shooter incidents at LAX we were issued new body armor of the Point Blank brand. Not sure what model but it says Body Armor Carrier 65 percent polyester and 35 percent cotton. There is a warning label on the inside of both front and rear vest, "This carrier offers no ballistic protection without ballistic panels being inserted."
I checked the pockets and no panels were found. These vests feel flimsy and less stiff than the 20 year old vests they replaced. Management tells us that these will protect us from pistol rounds but not rifle. Apparently they didn't want to spend money on the good stuff. My question is will these vest do anything without the panels? Rifle or pistol? Or am I walking into a situation with zero protection? Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk |
#2
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Question about body armor I was just issued
No armor in them!!!!!! Just carriers!!! Fold them up as tight as possible and cram the up the *** of wholm ever bought them!!
No panels they are more than worthless as your not as agile. Which you will have to be seeing as your departments survival strategy depends on the "5 D's".
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I know what this man needs.............bring me the vodka Last edited by emtmark; 02-05-2014 at 11:50 AM.. |
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VETERAN • LEO |
#4
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Sounds like the dept bought only a limited amount of actual panels and then enough carriers for all employees. Check and see if your station has panels without carriers. My sense is that you will be sharing panels but not the carriers. You would put the panels in your carrier at the start of your shift and then remove when your shift is over. Personally, I would want both issued to me. Hope this helps
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#6
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#8
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The question is do they atleast have SOFT armor installed? Many police departments around here only have soft armor and no plates.
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U.S. Army Combat Engineer |
#10
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They pretty much gave you guys an ugly t-shirt
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"I swear I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." US Army Combat Engineer 03'-08' 1st Cav |
#11
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HAHAHA!!!! This.
Hey OP, if you can't get your department to issue you actual soft body panels, I suggest you get cozy with your local beat cops. Panels have a limited life (but in reality will still function fine past the expiration date), and as a result most departments will have "expired" panels collecting dust in a cabinet somewhere. Invite your local cops into the station for a cup and see if you can get them to give you a pair.
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Urban legends are a poor basis for making public policy. |
#12
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Question about body armor I was just issued
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If anyone is familiar with Point Blank armor does the carrier provide any protection? Or is that warning label as literate as it appears? Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Last edited by Paul053; 02-28-2014 at 10:59 AM.. |
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U.S. Army Combat Engineer |
#14
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Not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure that this is the model. http://pointblankenterprises.com/poi...=c-series-male looks like the one I was wearing. You can see the velcro seam above where it says Point Blank. It is also the same materials, 65% polyester and 35% cotton. Just no ballistic panels found in any of the ones we were issued. |
#15
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My PB vest has a soft panel in both the front and back, and a hard trauma plate over the area where your heart is. If you have no panels at all, the vest is worthless. BTW, we were issued new vests every five years due to the breakdown of the soft panels because of sweat.
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Last edited by 1CavScout; 02-05-2014 at 5:42 PM.. Reason: spelling |
#17
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According to specs it should include soft armor. Your vest is similar to most modern vests. Are the velcro pockets on the exterior? If so, and its like mine those are strictly only for hard trauma plates. Your soft armor inserts will be on the interior pockets if they are removable like mine. If not your soft armor is possibly permanently stitched into the carrier and non removable non washable.
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U.S. Army Combat Engineer |
#18
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That is frickin ridiculous. If you guys have a union, contact them.
Body armor (soft ballistic panels w/carrier) comes in a big thick cardboard box, and you have to be fitted to get the right size (example: XL Long), replacement carriers come on a coat hanger and will flap in the wind as they are empty...the velcro pocket is for a "trauma plate" which is just more added Kevlar (6"x8" square I believe) to your chest area. Usually (the 4 different vests I've owned throughout my career have been the same) inside of the carrier, near the widest part, you will notice a velcro strip that runs the entire length of the wide way (yea wtf did I just type, horizontally I mean) and that's where you split the velcro and insert the ballistic panels. If you split that open and don't find a panel in there that you could remove that's the same size of that half of the vest you opened, you have zero protection.
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Time to nut up, or shut up. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#19
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Question about body armor I was just issued
The link indicates a concealable ba will they have you wearing this under your duty wear on too of bunker gear! Hot hot hot hot!!
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I know what this man needs.............bring me the vodka |
#20
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Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk |
#22
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Many panels will continue to work as designed beyond the five year date, however; anyone who is being issued vests deserves to have one less than five years old and within manufacturers specs/warranty period.
Can you post a pic of what you have? |
#23
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I do not know what you have based upon the description...
Most agencies issue NIJ rated 3A vests... It will stop handguns and some shotgun loads. Vests that can stop rifle rounds are hard and heavy... and statistically very few people are shot with a rifle... There was a famous shootout with the FBI where no one had on the vests due to a lack of comfort... the Rifle vests also cover a smaller portion of the torso than a properly fit 3A vest.... But speak to your cop buddies and have them look at your gear to ensure panels are in the carrier. The panels will have the manufacturer information...
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Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#24
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Yeah I can't tell if you just have the soft armor with no plates, or they handed you some fabric with velcro on it lol.
If it has some weight / heft to it, it should be the soft armor. You should also have pouches for plates.
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Lawyer, but not your lawyer. Posts aren't legal advice. |
#30
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There should be at least one front and one rear panel.
Each panel should have a label on it with size, rating, serial number, etc. It should also state which side of the panel faces your body which is the label side on all panels that I have seen. Take it to the range and punch some holes in it with handgun rounds. Then bring it back to management and say it didn't work. I kid, I kid...
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Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Nothing in my posts should be considered legal advice. Got ORI? Front Sight Diamond Member |
#32
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I don't think I've ever heard a story like this one. Aside from lots of kidding, this is a serious officer-safety issue. And if your department won't get you some panels ASAP, take $750 and go buy yourself a usable set of body armor. Our panels are level IIIA. Get 'em.
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#35
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The velcro "pockets" may be for additional trauma plates.
Are there almost invisible zippers on the bottom edges? Usually there is a way to remove the soft armor panels from the 'vest' so you can wash the cloth outer 'carrier'. |
#36
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OP may be on duty, and not able to respond - those broom hockey games require a lot of concentration (grin).
Seriously, if you were given a carrier that you have to share with another firefighter with no plates, call your union rep and pin a rabbit's foot to your chest because that's better protection than what you were issued. Is it possible the plates were ordered separately and haven't arrived yet? |
#39
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The grey Kevlar soft panels are what they mean by "panels". It was saying that the black carrier (the fabric shell) is not ballistic, which is obvious. The vest is going to feel like a single layer of semi-soft cardboard compared to your old vest. They're very thin in comparison, but they are more comfortable and not as hot. I was issued the same one and I'm a full time LEO. The vests have an additional panel (also soft) that is in the front Velcro pouch. Last edited by Kestryll; 02-09-2014 at 12:40 PM.. |
#40
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Question about body armor I was just issued
I apologize for taking so long to update. I was away from the station for a few weeks taking a few courses.
That being said after having a local brother in blue educate me on armor, the ones we were issued did in fact come with soft plates that will defeat pistols rounds. No hard plates for rifles. As another poster mentioned there was a small zipper that I didn't see that accessed another pocket that contained the soft plates. I apologize for the drama. It was my ignorance that caused it. But at thanks to you guys I've educated myself on the subject. That being said since we don't get issued rifle plates Are they tax deductible if we buy our own? Last edited by Paul053; 02-28-2014 at 11:03 AM.. |
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