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  #81  
Old 05-16-2019, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floogy View Post
You mean keeping your weapon on target while changing a mostly empty magazine to stay in the fight? I can't imagine any reason you'd need to do that.
https://youtu.be/NZd5nwTBPzU
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  #82  
Old 05-16-2019, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post


ďIn battery reloads are easy to do.Ē Thereís very little disadvantage to tactical reloads. Clint Smith is a proponent of shooting til empty. Within reason of course. If the situation dictates, fire til empty. If you can reload, then reload. Unless your mag wonít seat...


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  #83  
Old 05-16-2019, 3:37 PM
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Any caliber is better than none...
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  #84  
Old 05-16-2019, 3:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperius View Post
Whichever caliber you choose, you're not making it through a whole magazine. You bought an XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlazito View Post
Are you saying XD's are not reliable? I always read they are great and very reliable guns.
I think what he's saying is that XD pistols are SO much better than Glocks (ergonomics, accuracy, capacity, looks, quality, product warranty, awesome owners...you name it), you'll only need to shoot one round and then the fight is over.
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  #85  
Old 05-16-2019, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CWL View Post
Correction, ALL pistol calibers suck, which is why hitting COM followed by transitioning to failure drill is the only way to reliably end an assault.
ďFailure drillĒ hahaha thatís funny. Letís be rid of the PC nomenclature and just call it for what it is, Mozambique.

On a more serious note, a lot of this discussion has an unspoken assumption that there is one assailant like itís a one on one gunfight at high noon. 15 or 17 +1 or 7 or 8 +1? Yeah, Iíll be rockiní my glockiní in case uninvited guest brought his friends.
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  #86  
Old 05-16-2019, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jimster716 View Post
ďFailure drillĒ hahaha thatís funny. Letís be rid of the PC nomenclature and just call it for what it is, Mozambique.



On a more serious note, a lot of this discussion has an unspoken assumption that there is one assailant like itís a one on one gunfight at high noon. 15 or 17 +1 or 7 or 8 +1? Yeah, Iíll be rockiní my glockiní in case uninvited guest brought his friends.


Well anyone thatís been in the military in the past 20 years probably heard failure drill. I had no idea what a Mozambique drill was until long after I learned what a failure drill was.

But regardless, the more the better. I can carry 31 rounds with very little effort. 46 if I wanted to carry two whole mags.


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  #87  
Old 05-16-2019, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MrBlazito View Post
Are you saying XD's are not reliable? I always read they are great and very reliable guns.
There's only 1 nationally known competitor or instructor who uses an XD, and he's a full time employee of Springfield. In police terminology they call that a clue.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SageDynamics
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  #88  
Old 05-16-2019, 5:25 PM
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Or step up to 357 sig

My g31 holds 16+1

Speer gold dot 124g 9mm- 364 Ft-Lbs of energy punching into your target

Speer gold dot 230g 45acp- 404 Ft-Lbs

Speer gold dot 125g 357sig- 584 Ft-Lbs

Crazy how that 40 ft-lb advantage of the 45 always comes up as "knock down power", but having the additional 180 Ft-Lbs is dismissed as "expensive ammo" at roughly $2 more per 50 rounds than 45acp
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  #89  
Old 05-16-2019, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
Or step up to 357 sig


"what is the point of this cartridge?"

-Dr Gary Roberts

https://modernserviceweapons.com/?author=5

https://youtu.be/Pkus6kKodpU
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  #90  
Old 05-16-2019, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
There's only 1 nationally known competitor or instructor who uses an XD, and he's a full time employee of Springfield. In police terminology they call that a clue.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SageDynamics
Take somebody's advice on the interwebs or go with my own experience given 2 different makes? Hmmm...let me think on that for a second. NO!

And that 1 nationally known competitor just so happens to be Rob Leatham. He's not just some dude churning out NRA First Steps Basic Pistol certs...

My Glock was the worst POS I ever had. Failure to feed galore. Tried a bazillion different followers, magazines etc. No workie.

My 3 XD pistols have not given me anywhere near the amount of trouble. One malfunction I do recall which was a weak spring on an old mag. Got rid of the mag and no more trouble. Have shot several thousand rounds between my XD-mm, XD4 and XD9. No issues.

Yes, HTB, I know. You shoot...A LOT! Yes, HTB, I know. You train like A LOT! Yes, HTB, I know. You're awesomeness incarnate behind the trigger. Yes, HTB, I know. You hate Springfield. Sorry to piss in your Cheerios, but I LOVE my SA guns. Don't like it? Too bad. This is MY thread by the way. So, go make your own I hate SA thread.

HTB-you know I'm only giving you a hard time right? Nothing personal. Right? K? Friends over firearms? Buddies over bacon?
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  #91  
Old 05-16-2019, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Take somebody's advice on the interwebs or go with my own experience given 2 different makes?

Sorry to piss in your Cheerios, but I LOVE my SA guns. Don't like it? Too bad. This is MY thread by the way.
You mean you love HS Produkt... but yeah, you are doing it 100% right in my book. YOUR experience is gold. More power to you. I have one XD9 and have shot a few others and an XDM 40. Liked the XDM 40... don't love my XD9. Heard bad things about XD's lately, but got one because I always wanted as HS back when I thought Glocks were the lamest.

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  #92  
Old 05-16-2019, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floogy View Post
You mean keeping your weapon on target while changing a mostly empty magazine to stay in the fight? I can't imagine any reason you'd need to do that.
Hmmm? Think on it.

From Featureless:
Quote:
Don't know because the magazine won't seat with the slide closed. Don't think the Glock is designed to be loaded that way, can't think of any circumstance where you would. The slide needs to be locked back in order to insert the mag.
Hmmm? Full mag +1 in the tube?

Hmmm?

tipoc
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  #93  
Old 05-17-2019, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
Hmmm? Think on it.

From Featureless:

Hmmm? Full mag +1 in the tube?

Hmmm?

tipoc


I see the sarcasm flew over.

I talked about the exact scenario where one would need to reload on a closed slide, then questioned why in the very next sentence. I thought it would be enough. I really did.


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  #94  
Old 05-17-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by floogy View Post
I see the sarcasm flew over.

I talked about the exact scenario where one would need to reload on a closed slide, then questioned why in the very next sentence. I thought it would be enough. I really did.


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Sorry, I missed it. My apologies.

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  #95  
Old 05-17-2019, 10:37 AM
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Sorry, I missed it. My apologies.



tipoc


No worries.


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  #96  
Old 05-17-2019, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by floogy View Post
“In battery reloads are easy to do.” There’s very little disadvantage to tactical reloads. Clint Smith is a proponent of shooting til empty. Within reason of course. If the situation dictates, fire til empty. If you can reload, then reload. Unless your mag won’t seat...


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They are stubborn sometimes. I have a G22 that's always loaded (I don't think the mag is downloaded), and the mag goes right in and there is a very soft but perceptible resistance before it seats easily. Others like a G41, a new mag will take a LOT more pressure to get it to seat on a closed slide where the only way it is "easy" is clamping a hand around the bottom of mag and top of slide like a C-clamp. Remember those "MR. T" chest flex spring bars? I need to dig mine out from wherever it is hiding... might have sold it at a yard sale.





No I hear "I PITY the FOOL that can't seat a Glock mag!"
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  #97  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
you want to take advice from a guy that sweeps his shins/feet several times picking up his magazine?
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  #98  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by broadside View Post
you want to take advice from a guy that sweeps his shins/feet several times picking up his magazine?
He didn't sweep, but people frequently say similar things when viewing 2D images of 3D events.

For the forum members reading this, Dave Spaulding has lots of excellent videos on YouTube, subscribe to his channel for practical info from an old timer cop who's kept up with the times and stayed relevant.
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  #99  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
He didn't sweep, but people frequently say similar things when viewing 2D images of 3D events.

For the forum members reading this, Dave Spaulding has lots of excellent videos on YouTube, subscribe to his channel for lots of practical info from an old timer cop who's kept up with the times.
Take a close look at the 5:14 mark. Pretty hard to excuse that as a 2D issue. I get that people make mistakes, but I hold instructors to a higher threshold
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  #100  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by broadside View Post
Take a close look at the 5:14 mark. Pretty hard to excuse that as a 2D issue. I get that people make mistakes, but I hold instructors to a higher threshold
He didn't laser, muzzle was pointed between his feet/legs.

Again, 2D issue.
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  #101  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:56 AM
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agree to disagree. moving on.
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  #102  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:03 PM
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agree to disagree. moving on.
Muzzle is pointing between his legs.

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  #103  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by broadside View Post
you want to take advice from a guy that sweeps his shins/feet several times picking up his magazine?
He also takes advice from "doctors" who say theres no difference or advantage to more powerful handgun rounds, so all that 357, 44, 10mm talk is worthless. I guess we should refit cops with a 22lr and 50 round mags
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  #104  
Old 05-17-2019, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
He also takes advice from "doctors" who say theres no difference or advantage to more powerful handgun rounds, so all that 357, 44, 10mm talk is worthless. I guess we should refit cops with a 22lr and 50 round mags
Here's the bio of that doctor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio

Here's some engineers at Federal saying the same thing. Sorry the world isn't flat.

https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y
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  #105  
Old 05-17-2019, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Here's the bio of that doctor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Di_Maio

Here's some engineers at Federal saying the same thing. Sorry the world isn't flat.

https://youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y
Thats why I love my 25acp in bear country, carrying my 460 would be pointless.
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  #106  
Old 05-17-2019, 1:38 PM
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So naturally a normal conversation between two humans can't be had on Calguns because the other chooses the low road.

These statements are based around self defense from 2 legged predators.
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  #107  
Old 05-17-2019, 1:43 PM
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So naturally a normal conversation between two humans can't be had on Calguns because the other chooses the low road.

These statements are based around self defense from 2 legged predators.
Because you post a bunch of other peoples opinions as facts, when their main opinion is basically "we dont really know if it works better, both bullets killed him"

I have scientific measurements saying that some rounds are more powerful than others, and the basic understanding of physics to realize that a more powerful projectile will transfer more energy to the target. You seem to think more energy doesn't make a difference.

Your argument is equivalent to saying a 30mph traffic accident can kill you, so theres no more risk or danger associated with a 60mph accident.
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  #108  
Old 05-17-2019, 2:16 PM
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Because you post a bunch of other peoples opinions as facts, when their main opinion is basically "we dont really know if it works better, both bullets killed him"



I have scientific measurements saying that some rounds are more powerful than others, and the basic understanding of physics to realize that a more powerful projectile will transfer more energy to the target. You seem to think more energy doesn't make a difference.



Your argument is equivalent to saying a 30mph traffic accident can kill you, so theres no more risk or danger associated with a 60mph accident.
I don't know why you're arguing with doctors and engineers. Maybe you're a doctor or engineer?

It's been my experience that the people who care most about caliber debates tend to be the least skilled/trained, so they hope to make up for their deficiency with gear.
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  #109  
Old 05-17-2019, 4:24 PM
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I don't know why you're arguing with doctors and engineers. Maybe you're a doctor or engineer?

It's been my experience that the people who care most about caliber debates tend to be the least skilled/trained, so they hope to make up for their deficiency with gear.
Is that why you literally have caliber debate links in your signature
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  #110  
Old 05-17-2019, 4:50 PM
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I guess ETS should make a mag loader for that... or you can just push harder.
That's what she said.
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Old 05-17-2019, 4:55 PM
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Is that why you literally have caliber debate links in your signature
That's not a caliber debate. Open your garage door when revving your 440, the exhaust might be affecting your cognition.
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  #112  
Old 05-18-2019, 9:39 AM
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Default Rethinking my Religion...

Double post
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Old 05-18-2019, 9:39 AM
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Is that why you literally have caliber debate links in your signature


There has been a lot of research put into ammunition development in the past couple decades. I heed their research because Iím just an amateur gun owner that doesnít have the money or time to test it myself. The FBI, ammo manufacturers, medical examiners and Those who make their living using firearms have way more experience than me.


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  #114  
Old 05-18-2019, 1:20 PM
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Military uses 9mm. FBI is switching over to 9. I think I'll keep my 9mm
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Old 05-18-2019, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by baekacaek View Post
Military uses 9mm. FBI is switching over to 9. I think I'll keep my 9mm


So true. This is because ethers are more and more women amongst their ranks. ...
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  #116  
Old 05-18-2019, 6:16 PM
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So if recoil management is not an issue for the individual shooter and shot placement is the exact same, what's the downside to putting more kinetic energy into the target?

All I hear is "the experts say that the baby 9 does the job ok"

If your half ton truck has a 10k tow rating, is it completely stupid to tow a 10k trailer with the f350 you already own?

What about when you put heavy clothing or barriers or soft body armor into the mix? Even if none of the calibers punch through a ballistic vest, would you rather have your round hit their chest like a golf club or a sledge hammer?

The caliber debate has always boiled down to more energy vs more capacity or easier management. Now that the 357 capacity is the same or better than 40 or 45, while the energy is also greater than both, and considering the fact that recoil management is completely subjective and case by case, name one real world downside to having 17 rounds at 580 FtLbs vs 14 rounds at 400 FtLbs vs 18rounds at 350 FtLbs
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Last edited by Cuda440; 05-18-2019 at 6:48 PM..
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  #117  
Old 05-19-2019, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
So if recoil management is not an issue for the individual shooter and shot placement is the exact same
Shooting is a combination of speed and accuracy. You are not factoring in speed, and looking at self defense shooting as if it was a slow-fire bullseye match.

Recoil, and it's affects on your accuracy at speed can be measured, you just haven't measured it. And since you haven't measured it, your conclusions are based on incomplete metrics and are thusly erroneous.
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  #118  
Old 05-19-2019, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
Shooting is a combination of speed and accuracy. You are not factoring in speed, and looking at self defense shooting as if it was a slow-fire bullseye match.

Recoil, and it's affects on your accuracy at speed can be measured, you just haven't measured it. And since you haven't measured it, your conclusions are based on incomplete metrics and are thusly erroneous.
Where did I say anything about factoring in speed or mention bullseye anywhere? Stop putting words in my mouth to argue against, you should just go argue with yourself in the shower.

I clearly asked but I will emphasize to further clarify it for you, if every single variable is the exact same, as in speed, recoil, aim, shot placement, what's the downside to putting more kinetic energy into the target?
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:28 AM
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454 casull is all a true shooter needs.

Maybe a 44 for pocket carry.

45 is anemic and 9 doesn't work unless you're trying to make small dents in cardboard.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:28 AM
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I clearly asked but I will emphasize to further clarify it for you, if every single variable is the exact same, as in speed, recoil, aim, shot placement, what's the downside to putting more kinetic energy into the target?
You don't get more kinetic energy without more recoil. I'm puzzled as to how you don't know that.
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