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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #81  
Old 11-24-2017, 4:24 PM
brianinca brianinca is offline
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This is a lot of crying about nothing. Carry a pistol you don't really like when in SF City/County, no big deal. I sure as hell carried when I spent a lot of time in the mid-late '90's in SF, and that was way before the whole CCW revolution across the free states. If it gets seized, so what? Carry another pistol!

Shucks, I know MULTIPLE cops that quit carrying Kimber 1911's off duty and switched to Glocks or RIA 1911's or Sig 2022's or whatever when they realized their $1800 barbeque pistol would be in lockup for the duration of the investigation/trial if they had to use it. I don't wonder the majority of Glock 42/43's come from younger cops finally getting to retirement age. I know where my ca 1974 Model 60 Smith came from!
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  #82  
Old 11-24-2017, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
This debate has been going on a long time. Back in 2009 I emailed sfpd specifically asking them if they would honor permits from other counties. Here was their email reply:

Quote "yes, as long as you carry the proper id as required from your county. All paperwork must be up to date. if stopped, the officer will contact the proper county law enforcement for verification prior to ending the detention at the scene, so be patient. thank you for asking and stay safe." End Quote. The text I quoted says exactly what I said and was posted by Tavara here in this forum.
So your only evidence is hearsay, that about sum it up? Not very convincing as far as fact's go.
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  #83  
Old 11-24-2017, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
So your only evidence is hearsay, that about sum it up? Not very convincing as far as fact's go.
Why don't you let this go? Most of what is discussed on these forums could be considered hearsay, so what I choose to believe the folks that say SF has a problem with CCW's but you seem to think all is well in SF, if you think SF is all warm and fuzzy toward CCW holders thats ok but it's just your opinion.
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  #84  
Old 11-24-2017, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
Why don't you let this go? Most of what is discussed on these forums could be considered hearsay, so what I choose to believe the folks that say SF has a problem with CCW's but you seem to think all is well in SF, if you think SF is all warm and fuzzy toward CCW holders thats ok but it's just your opinion.
Just like most of what you post it has no basis in fact or reality of the real world. You'd rather believe urban legend than try to find the real facts, well the real world deals in fact not legend or myth. I never said SF is all warm and fuzzy toward CCW, because we all know that it isn't. You seem to believe based on no fact what so ever that cops in SF just go around detaining CCW holder's for no legal reason other than to do it. Hell it's on the internet it must be true, right? I've gone to SF thousands of times with a gun on my hip, never been stopped detained or any of the other things that are supposed to happen when your in SF with a gun, with hollow points, I guess I'm just the exception.

There is no real life factual example of it happening, no documented case of a gun being taken for no lawful reason, as has been mentioned by someone with a CCW who works in SF I believe, if there was a documented case that person would have won the lawsuit lottery, and we would all know about it.

In the long run it doesn't really matter your going to continue your chicken little routine but take no corrective action for the perceived harm done. Post your bs facts that you can't back up, but play the victim real well when you get called on it, so carry on, oh that's right you don't carry.
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  #85  
Old 11-24-2017, 9:44 PM
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I can add to this discussion that there are cops everywhere in Macy's square especially today. I was on edge every time I passed the bomb squad crews (there were a few of them and their vans) out there. Would have freaked everyone out if a dog was triggered by gunpowder smell on me from my edc, or at least that was all I could think about.
It was all good but keep in mind that there is a feeling of being in a police state out there.
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  #86  
Old 11-25-2017, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ilikeguns View Post
I can add to this discussion that there are cops everywhere in Macy's square especially today. I was on edge every time I passed the bomb squad crews (there were a few of them and their vans) out there. Would have freaked everyone out if a dog was triggered by gunpowder smell on me from my edc, or at least that was all I could think about.
It was all good but keep in mind that there is a feeling of being in a police state out there.
Stop. "Cops are everywhere in Macy's Square...."

If you think the dogs will alert on the ammo from your edc, why wouldn't they alert on the ammo carried by all of those cops?

Oh, I bet the SFPD carries special dog-sniffing-proof elements which are placed into the hollowpoints. That's why hollowpoints are banned for general use in the city.*

*When this gets reposted, I want credit for starting another myth.

Last edited by Dvrjon; 11-25-2017 at 6:59 AM..
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  #87  
Old 11-25-2017, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeyfs View Post
During my CCW class they told us to be careful carrying on San Francisco. That they don’t acknowledged CCW permits and will take your gun away and make it extremely hard if not impossible to get back
I could teach that in my CCW classes too but, until I have proof, it's just FUD. Some CCW instructors do teach FUD as if it was law and try to claim it is until asked for a specific cite. Then, they just say "well, it's a good idea" or something similar. Don't take everything ANY CCW instructor says as gospel. No one knows every law in this state or how every LEO will react in a specific situation, not even a CCW instructor.
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  #88  
Old 11-25-2017, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I could teach that in my CCW classes too but, until I have proof, it's just FUD. Some CCW instructors do teach FUD as if it was law and try to claim it is until asked for a specific cite. Then, they just say "well, it's a good idea" or something similar. Don't take everything ANY CCW instructor says as gospel. No one knows every law in this state or how every LEO will react in a specific situation, not even a CCW instructor.

That bad part about that is 'it's a required course' one would think that anything taught in a 'required' course would be 200% accurate


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  #89  
Old 11-25-2017, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
That bad part about that is 'it's a required course' one would think that anything taught in a 'required' course would be 200% accurate


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Ah, you might think IT is a required course. However, there isn't a specific course which is required. The requirement is to take A course. Not every math class is the same but, many will fulfill the same requirement.
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  #90  
Old 11-25-2017, 5:11 PM
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Wasn’t there a point where SF tried to deny acceptance of CA CCWs and got sued?
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  #91  
Old 11-25-2017, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Ah, you might think IT is a required course. However, there isn't a specific course which is required. The requirement is to take A course. Not every math class is the same but, many will fulfill the same requirement.

Whereas most agencies have specific authorized/qualifying classes, so essentially it is a specific course.


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  #92  
Old 11-25-2017, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Stop. "Cops are everywhere in Macy's Square...."

If you think the dogs will alert on the ammo from your edc, why wouldn't they alert on the ammo carried by all of those cops?

Oh, I bet the SFPD carries special dog-sniffing-proof elements which are placed into the hollowpoints. That's why hollowpoints are banned for general use in the city.*

*When this gets reposted, I want credit for starting another myth.
I'm really sorry for my post man. I meant no harm. There was a crazy amount of cops around 70 or more and bomb squads. I'm real sorry.
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  #93  
Old 11-25-2017, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
Whereas most agencies have specific authorized/qualifying classes, so essentially it is a specific course.
Having seen CSAs course criteria from the IA, I can tell you it's not a set course. It's a list of things that should be covered/discussed and then the shoot. A course would be something akin to what the DoD or the DMV do where all requirements are consistent and cut and dried set of objectives clearly define what is expected at the end of the course and the course material is required to be the same across all entities that present the course.

I suspect this is why a few IAs require they they do the training themselves, so they can tightly control the content.
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  #94  
Old 11-26-2017, 6:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
Whereas most agencies have specific authorized/qualifying classes, so essentially it is a specific course.


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Yes, most agencies has a list of authorized instructors/classes. That doesn't mean each course is identical. They will all cover the subject matter that the IA requires but, each one will be different with each instructor adding his/her own slant and expertise to his/her individual course.
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  #95  
Old 11-26-2017, 1:20 PM
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Think about driving schools when you get a ticket. Not all are the same even though they cover the same issues.
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  #96  
Old 05-11-2018, 10:53 PM
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Is the info still valid? I’m traveling to SF for the weekend and carry my Shiled 9mm w/ Hornady Critical Defense HP. Do I need to buy some new ammo or load my range Blazer Brass FMJ rounds?
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  #97  
Old 05-12-2018, 6:07 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
Is the info still valid? I’m traveling to SF for the weekend and carry my Shiled 9mm w/ Hornady Critical Defense HP. Do I need to buy some new ammo or load my range Blazer Brass FMJ rounds?
Which info? The fact or the FUD?

The statewide LTC is valid in the City and County of San Francisco.

SF ordinance still prohibits some hollowpoints. The language is so loose, it would be hard to obviously violate unless you carried Black Talons or an identical load. With the improvements in ammo over the last 20+ years, it's doubtful that the Hornady is equal to the BTs.
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SEC. 618. PROHIBITED AMMUNITION.
(a) Definition. For purposes of this Section, "Prohibited Ammunition" shall mean:
(I) Ammunition sold under the brand name "Winchester Black Talon," or that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to ammunition presently or formerly sold under the brand name Winchester Black Talon; or,
(2) Ammunition designated by its manufacturer for purchase by law enforcement or military agencies only, unless other ammunition is available to the general public that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.
The ordinance requires SFPD to publish a list of banned ammo, but also states that unlisted ammo may also be banned.

Here's the list: https://sanfranciscopolice.org/san-f...ted-ammunition

There have been no reports of enforcement action.
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  #98  
Old 05-12-2018, 6:47 AM
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Awesome thank you. I looked up the ammo and mine isn’t on there so I’ll carry away like normal through that rat infested needle littered communist town.
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  #99  
Old 05-12-2018, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
Awesome thank you. I looked up the ammo and mine isn’t on there so I’ll carry away like normal through that rat infested needle littered communist town.
Don't worry about the rats, you're walking through a toilet. The rats are in the sewer because it's cleaner.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...472430013.html
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  #100  
Old 06-26-2018, 3:03 PM
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I emailed the SFPD Ingleside Station on 6/21/2018 regarding carrying in SF. Below was the response. Of course your experience may vary on the street.
Hi

Please have your license on you and readily accessible in case an issue arises. Please be advised the majority of SF venues may not allow you to enter their premises while carrying CCW. I can almost guarantee someone will call us if they see your gun. If you contact officers on a call for service please comply with all requests while they verify your license.

Please take care and enjoy your visit.

Thank you

Last edited by sigbond; 06-26-2018 at 3:05 PM.. Reason: updated formatting for better readability
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  #101  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jessdigs View Post
As far as the ammo goes, the ordinance you are talking about just banned sales of hollow point, B T, etc. You can still have them, and carry them.
As far as wanding at Moscone, I have no clue. I have been there and didn't get wanded, but it was for a Lego event. That was my only time there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
You asked about "hollowpoints" and, there is no law regarding possession of "hollowpoints" in SF. There is a law regarding the sales of ammunition which:
The biggest issue I have with the above is this from Code 618:


With exceptions for military or law enforcement possession, proposed Police Code § 618 generally prohibits possession of the following kinds of ammunition in the City and County of San Francisco:
(1) Ammunition sold under the brand name "Winchester Black Talon," or that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to ammunition presently or formerly sold under the brand name Winchester Black Talon; or,
(2) Ammunition designated by its manufacturer for purchase by law enforcement or military agencies only, unless other ammunition is available to the general public that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.


(2) always seems like a grey area to me.
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  #102  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:18 AM
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When I got pulled over in Alameda (City of Alameda) the officer seemed really excited that I had my ccw. Let me off of a 42/25.
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  #103  
Old 06-30-2018, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Phalanx20mm View Post
I heard about a friend of a friend that was in SF and carrying 9mm with CCW issued in the Valley. The officer saw the gun through his t-shirt and stopped him. Said CCW was no good in SF, stole gun from the guy. He was given a number to call to pick up his gun. After many attempts to get through he's told his gun was destroyed.

My guess is the jackbooted thug kept his gun.
Going back to the 1970s S.F.P.D. officers have been told that California CCWs are not valid in San Francisco. I had this come up several times and though they "let me go," they still insisted that they could lock me up. S.F.P.D. officers are among the finest and you can't blame the men for incorrect training from the brass.
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  #104  
Old 06-30-2018, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SE Jenkins View Post
Going back to the 1970s S.F.P.D. officers have been told that California CCWs are not valid in San Francisco. I had this come up several times and though they "let me go," they still insisted that they could lock me up. S.F.P.D. officers are among the finest and you can't blame the men for incorrect training from the brass.
Okay here goes my standard response: I will give $100 to you or anyone that can produce verifiable proof of this.

Been making this offer for years and have never had to pay out; it's always a "friend of a guy" or "this instructor I heard of" or some other BS.

I carry lawfully in SF most days and have spoken to numerous street cops and to a one, they have never heard of this. In fact I sort of wish something like this *would* happen to me. The city would be sued into oblivion.

I get it, people love to hate on San Francisco, and yeah it's pretty messed up in some respects, but you shouldn't have to make up reasons to dislike the city.
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  #105  
Old 06-30-2018, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Okay here goes my standard response: I will give $100 to you or anyone that can produce verifiable proof of this.

Been making this offer for years and have never had to pay out; it's always a "friend of a guy" or "this instructor I heard of" or some other BS.

I carry lawfully in SF most days and have spoken to numerous street cops and to a one, they have never heard of this. In fact I sort of wish something like this *would* happen to me. The city would be sued into oblivion.

I get it, people love to hate on San Francisco, and yeah it's pretty messed up in some respects, but you shouldn't have to make up reasons to dislike the city.
Very well said!

This FUD needs to end.
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