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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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let's not discuss 'workarounds' for now...
Kes has requested in another thread to be wary of "new products" given recent legislation. I heartily concur
on most, esp from out-of-state vendors who may not "have the full picture". Some of these products may/may not be useful as workarounds in future ... "depending".... Remember things have just STARTED; there are a variety of issues here. Firstly, AS OF NOW YOU DO NOT HAVE "AWs" if you have BB maglock'd guns. This status does NOT trigger until next year. Right now you do not have to do anything. However:
So there are multiple matters we might want to keep quiet for awhile - and then move very very quickly "while the iron's hot". I think SOME of you can envision what one or two of them are, and are sensible enough to not jump up & down and crow about them publicly and get reporters hot & bothered - as that will not help us. I myself am laughing at some of the conflicts - and the huge "Heller briar patch trap" one of the other laws helped walk us right into. ;-) I'm sure other gun orgs are preparing, certainly CA NRA - great! [CA NRA's new lobbyist, I understand, is also a lawyer.] I will remind you that CGF's past rolls-in-the-mud & founding were involved in these very matters and will have to ramp up further if things get crazy beyond our already significant caseload (Pena, Silvester (and prospective derivatives), more on Texiera, poss. Richards escalation in cooperation w Peruta etc. Remember that featureless is still featureless and they haven't (and really can't via Heller) ban the most useful "California flavoring" on many guns: a detachable magazine semiauto centerfire rifle without cosmetics. Those with semiauto centerfire rifles having a so-called "flash hider" may want to think about converting to a documented muzzle brake/compensator or thread protector sooner than later for flexibility of (re)configuration. [From a practical standpoint FHs don't do 95++% of CA shooters much real-world good - and powder plays large part in flash reduction). This allows more flexible combinations and also allows mix'n'match quickly without criminalizing configurations - and/or risking Nguyen-escalated semi-constructive possession worries about separated parts. For those with "unique" guns that are NOT ARs or similar, and who do not want to reg as AWs, start investigating NOW 'featureless' setups using Kydex grip wraps (Solar Tactical does a fine one for ARs/AKs). Remember that this must really block thumb positioning and be stiff enough to NOT BE PUSHED AWAY. And dammit, don't start throwing out your mags yet either.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. Last edited by bwiese; 07-05-2016 at 9:20 PM.. |
#2
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Hey Bill,
At current time, which direction are donations best directed for the upcoming efforts, since they are CA specific issues? Thanks |
#3
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STFU
Stop posting work arounds!
Stop do not take a public stand "on a public forum" that you won't comply Stop, take a deep breath, don't panic TAKE IT OFF LINE!
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"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." Benjamin Franklin |
#4
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CalNRA...
I have to, since a Board member, say we at CGF would appreciate some support. Just because things don't pop up in the news daily doesn't mean work is not being done etc. There's a lot of irons on the fire. CRPA *Foundation* is prob the best way to channel directly to NRA-CRPA's California-specific legal efforts.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#5
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Sticking this for TBD.
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/Chris I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero. You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city. Everyone and their mums is packin' round here! Like who? Farmers. Who else? Farmers' mums. |
#6
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Yeah well prince kind of already let the cat out of the bag on FPC. Plus the mag lock has been out for a while. But the libs are so victory drunk on their Frappuccino smoothies hopefully they won't get wise to it for awhile.
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#7
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More than that etc.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#8
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Thank you Bill for one of the most informative post since Gov Brown signed these bills into law. Good to hear from you...
BTW, I can't throw away what I don't have...
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NRA Member NRA-ILA Contributor CGN Contributor iTrader Feedback Link https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1885547 |
#9
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#10
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Bill I think the compliance statewide will be about the same as it is in LA which is about zero.
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#11
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One thing l've found that helps with the "floppyness" of the grip wraps is to cover the pistol grip with a piece of bicycle inner tube first, and then put the wrap on. It imparts a little bit of extra material underneath, and that combined with the stickiness of the rubber helps hold everthing in place. To me it feels way more solid than just the kydex and pistol grip by themselves.
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#12
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Being a 70 year old veteran, I would like to keep the rifles I have built from off-list stripped lowers, California compliant. If I ever have to defend my family, I would not like to forfeit my ability to own self defense weapons.
I built my rifles for 3 gun completion and varmint matches at my local range, and outside of the Zombie Apocalypse, or active isis invasion, I will probably never have to use them, but just-in-case, I've decided to go featureless. My two long range rifles are already featureless except for the addition of monsterman grips. My carbine is another matter. I will add Monsterman grips, a fixed (Ace) stock, and I've opted for a liner compensator. I will be keeping the manufacturers tag/description in my wallet if U have to prove to a LEO that it's really a compensator. If a grid down/apocalypse situation ever occurs, it will only take me a couple of hours to revert back to the un-nueterd configuration. The ammo ban is, to me, a more serious problem, especially for competitive ammunition, and I guess I will have to get my old ammomaster up to snuff. Any constructive comments are appreciated! -Mike |
#13
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#16
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While I understand the point of the OP, I find it extremely disturbing that we are at a point where we need to meet in secret for fear of the state apparatus learning about ideas and circumventing them.
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help. |
#17
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We have all quit guns. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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#18
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are NOT a 'feature' - the MMGs are not pistol grips nor are a characteristic feature defined by SB23 or further defined in regulatory definition 11 CCR 5469. The rest of your description is fine. Any telestock should be fixed and not collpasible. Any muzzle device should be sold/marketed as a 'brake' or FAKE flash hider or thread protector - and no mention of FH abilities.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#19
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bump
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#20
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That's only valid, of course, if you use the anti-2A crowd's definition of loophole which is to follow the letter of the law, as written, in a manner they don't like. |
#21
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Just like campaign finance reform. How long does it take THEM to find the loopholes in anything the people want????
https://www.bing.com/search?q=campai...16&FORM=CHROMN Last edited by VaderSpade; 07-11-2016 at 1:16 PM.. |
#22
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I don't understand all the hush, hush.....
Yes, I get that the legislation season is not over. Yes I get that more laws can get to the govenors desk. But... what does it matter, honestly? If we put a 'work around', really configure our equipment to be compliant yet some what tolerable for us, out in the open, what difference does it make? If the law makers don't like what we have, they will outlaw that next. Sure, maybe this year, maybe next year or the year after that. Either way we are just delaying the inevitable. The courts aren't going to go in our favor. We know that from the past 16 + years. Some of the old timers could probably point out how the courts have failed us for the past 30-years. Gun rights and California don't belong in the same sentence anymore and sadly, they probably never will ever again.
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Signature required Last edited by erik_26; 07-11-2016 at 4:15 PM.. |
#23
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I say we stop self censoring and calling on moderators to remove posts talking about products that will defeat their bill. Who cares if we talk about franklins fixed magazine, Armaglock, bb2.0. They are going to find out sooner or later, if they don't already. We should be throwing the fact that we already have workarounds in their face. I would rather show them that no matter what unconstitutional bill they pass we will still find a way to exercise our 2A right. So stop being so scared that they are watching our posts and might find out are little "secret". I understand that they still might have time to close these "loopholes" but who cares. Everyone knows their ultimate goal is an all out ban on guns. So us not talking about what to do is not going to make a difference in the long run. Being so passive and not speaking out is what got us in this mess to begin with. So talk about how to counter the anti gunners, protest, donate to pro 2A groups. We must do whatever we can to defend our right to keep and bear arms. I am not advocating breaking their laws. I will be using these devices or going featureless. I will not be registering. But surely we should feel free enough to talk about things we can do. Don't loose your 1A too.
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#25
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#26
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#27
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We're all on the same side...2A
Bill,
Thanks for you for your good info, especially where donations can be directed to help fight the nut cases in Sacramento and all over California that keep wanting to take away our 2nd Amendment rights. That is helpful for many of us. I just wanted to say that regardless of the good information you share and the emotions and different feelings between our ranks, we are all on the same side. WE don't want anyone Telling, Taking, Forcing us to do anything more than we already have to, just because they THINK they know better than we do. Let's keep the fight up as ONE and remember that we are in this together and want the same thing. Keeping the sanctity of our 2nd Amendment Right, and winning the current law cases “We Are Fighting” for in the courts. Thanks to CalNRA, NAGR, FPC and the others helping to fight these cases for our 2nd Amendment Right. Fight on brothers & sisters in California, and keep those brain juices flowing....
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Those that "DO NOT Believe in the Right to Bear Arms", DO NOT have the right to be protected by those who do. Long live in our hearts, those who have given unselfishly for our Freedom©...R Ford...Member of CGN (Lifetime), FPC, GOA, NAGR, NRA (Lifetime)... |
#28
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Why can't we sue for the restriction of our RKBA...
Why can't we use the ADA to sue CA over our second amendment rights? Just using the AR pistol as an example. Once CA restricted it's sale to bolt action they effectively made it impossible for someone with a disability, like a veteran who lost an arm in the service to our country, from being able to operate the handgun. Someone with more legal experience than me will tell me why it won't work, but it sounds reasonable on the face IMHO.
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"A free people ought to be armed" George Washington, 1790 "Don't fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have war, let it begin here" Capt. John Parker, 19 April 1776, Lexington Green |
#29
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Expect the best, prepare for the worst, capitalize on what comes. |
#30
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I see 10+ workaround post a day on FaceBook and other sites. We're not hurting anyone but ourselves by not figuring this out.
If they don't get it this cycle they'll get it next cycle. Is kowtowing worth one cycle? |
#31
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I gotta agree with you. Do you guys honestly thing the anti 2a guys are just resting on their laurels? Do you think that we know something that these lawyers and lobbiests don't know? It took me 15 minutes to read the law and another few minutes worth of thinking to "figure it out." Any workaround we have is either going to be addressed this year, or next year, or a couple years down the road. Besides what work around are they going to have? Bullet buttons are the same as no bullet buttons and we get a free pass to register as aw's. Their the ones who wrote it, I'm pretty sure they didn't accidentally give us an opening to go RAW.
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#32
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I am calling on everyone on Calguns to start organizing peaceful public mass protests and marches. We need to march on Sacramento and in every city where we can gain media attention. All of the nation’s people concerned with protecting the 2nd Amendment should be organizing or attending marches! Why is this not happening? Enough with childish innuendo and threats, or suggestions of some violent response to the assault on our rights! Take action and start organizing and attending marches and public rallies!
Is it true that gun owners and 2nd Amendment supporters are all just sheep, willing to go along with any and every encroachment of our rights? Are we afraid to miss work for a day? If so, organize marches on weekends! Are we afraid our neighbors or non-gun-owning friends might see us interviewed by CNN or MSNBC and be portrayed as a “gun nut”? Well, if you’re afraid of distain then you should be much more concerned about the physical reality of not being able to protect yourself when law enforcement cannot! If a movement with a poster boy who was a strong arm convenience store robber that attacked a police officer and got shot to death for it can take to the streets and cause all cameras and talking heads to obsess on them for months, why can’t law abiding citizens who want and need to express their deeply held convictions and heartfelt concerns stand up in equal numbers? There are more of us that are concerned about our rights than there are in that movement! There are more than 50 million gun owners in America, and we all stand to lose our rights regardless of race or creed. Is it because we’re all willing to be run over by self serving misdirecting elitist anti-American politicians and media moguls? If so, we’ve already lost and deserve to have our rights be trampled on! We must start peaceful protests as soon as possible! Don’t bring firearms, don’t make inflammatory statements, don’t act like idiots, but instead voice your valid opinions and concerns. This is how democracy is supposed to work! African Americans would still be forced to sit in the back of the bus and walk in the gutter if there had been no Civil Rights movement in the 60s, and now it’s our turn! Personally, I don’t understand why the NRA is not already organizing rallies, but we must band together and make our voices heard, as emails and letters are all too easily deleted and tossed in the dust bin, just as easily as it will be to dispose of our right to bear arms if we don’t stand together and make our concerns known. Stand up fellow Americans for the rights we know are essential to our safety freedom! Don’t wait until it’s too late like people in Europe and elsewhere did before WWII. We need to stop this pernicious and insidious erosion of our rights now! If you belong to a gun club or local chapter of an NRA action group, bring this subject up and start discussing the possibilities. We need to get going on this folks, because the other side has a big head start and a lot of money behind them! Please excuse what might be perceived as an overuse of exclamation points, but this is a matter of urgency. I hope they don’t come to take me away for saying all of this, don’t you? |
#33
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Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools |
#34
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Tahoeshooter post 33. I like the 1st couple of sentences in your post. It's kind of hard to get a bunch of people to travel a sizable distance on the same day for a protest. What if we come up with an initiative and get each of our local cities to adopt it. Something along the lines of this city will not enforce any unconstitutional gun laws. There have been a few Sheriff's state that and Sheriff Mims from Fresno just got a nasty voice mail from Gov Brown in regards to her stance on the new gun laws. I bet that we, I and some other locals, could get our city council to help us. That way we would all be using the same format with people in high places that we arw personal friends with. I know 4 out of our 6 are progun.
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#35
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Gun control is not about public safety. It's about power and wealth control. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Thomas Jefferson There's only one real party in America. It's called the Capitalist Party, and you ain't invited. |
#36
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Are we in the clear?
The Calif legislative session is over. No new additions to the new AW law. Can we start talking about possible (emphasis on possible) workarounds now?
Last edited by papa zulu; 09-08-2016 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: misspelling |
#37
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Yes.
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
#38
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I'll say no. Because the regulatory process for these laws have just started (plagarized from FPC email)
So, if you have an idea for how you want to skirt registration via compliance, pre-reg for X Y and Z benefit, etc, it might still have a chance to be written out via regulation. |
#40
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This forum, for all it's worth, is hardly the only repository on this issue. By not talking about it, we're only depriving ourselves with possible resources to avoid stupid or unforeseen mistakes once the law takes effect. The legislators who want to find out about workarounds are going to find out regardless of what is said or not said here. Them's my $.02. |
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