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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#42
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My best guess, no DOJ assigned serial number. It's too late to request one for the purposes of BBAW registration, since all that needed to be engraved and submitted before July 1, 2018.
FYI, many people have successfully reg'd 80% BBAW pistols/rifles as long as the timelines were proper (SSE1.0), pre-2017, assigned DOJ serials, and application submitted before July 1, 2018. |
#44
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There must've been something about the pictures or the application OP put in. With it being 80% guns and serial number related, that might also be a reason. I registered one BBAW and went all featureless for the rest, should any bs happen, it isn't a total loss.
Good luck OP. |
#46
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man, thats unfortunate... gotta give in to the man I guess
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member USMC 2001-2012 Never make yourself too available or useful...... Semper Fidelis John Dickerson: What keeps you awake at night? James Mattis: Nothing, I keep other people awake at night. |
#47
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*If* there were no DOJ assigned serials engraved on them, then the 80% receivers absolutely cannot be in BBAW configuration after July 1, 2018.
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#48
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Quote:
they will beat us back or beat us into submission...
__________________
NRA Endowment Life Member USMC 2001-2012 Never make yourself too available or useful...... Semper Fidelis John Dickerson: What keeps you awake at night? James Mattis: Nothing, I keep other people awake at night. |
#49
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Sorry, you're wrong. There has NEVER been an "approved" bullet button period. DOJ never has and never will "approve" BBs or any other CA compliance part.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#50
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Please learn and understand the law before posting FUD. First off, yes, he had to start the registration process for any AW prior to that date. We have to assume that's what he did. The fact that they are homebuilds might be an issue but, it was possible to register homebuilds as AWs without a DOJ assigned SN. IF they already had a self assigned SN and have been entered into some sort of registry like CA's AFS or the NFA registry, they do not now and never have needed a CA assigned SN. That includes if they were registered as AWs.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#51
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Since when was a USN required for BBAW? I thought USN was meant for home builds built after 7/1/2018. I smell FUD. |
#52
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https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1397631&page=2
See above. People who attempted to use Vol-reg serials (i.e. already in AFS) to submit 80% BBAW applications were rejected and required new DOJ assigned serials with the nomenclature "FMBUSxxxx". That deadline has passed. |
#53
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The video footage (if there is any, and stored off-site of course) would be a great lesson here.
Question for Rick D: If the residence structure in question is located on a property that is totally fenced and gated, and locked in a manner in which forcing something open is the only means to gain entry onto the property, can LE agents forcibly enter such property absent exigent circumstances? If so, what can citizens legally do to minimize or prevent such encounters on their own property? |
#54
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Was it volreg or AW registration that was rejected?
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#55
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Props to your wife if she told em to pound sand!
If only half of us had the nerve?!
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Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be mounted... -Mac |
#56
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Just me: Don't let them in without a warrant, don't say anything and contact an attorney experienced in "gun laws" ASAP. And don't post about it here regardless of the fact that all on here want to hear what happens.
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Mojave Lever Crew Member "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris Slava Ukraini (Слава Україні) |
#57
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#58
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Why I love featureless.
__________________
I dreamed of owning a (insert off roster gun here)... Oh yeah....then the earth splits open with me on one side and the (off roster gun) on the other. Then appeared a large red-glowing pit with gavin newscum, diane frankenstein and governor "brown the drain" at the bottom of it, waving their pitchforks at me. (Non caps intended) |
#60
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AW. I had since gotten the DOJ serials, engraved them and re-reg.
__________________
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed |
#61
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Like other said lawyer up first. But IMHO, don’t push the issue of a warrant and give up any rifle they request. They will likely then just take the rifles on their list and you will never hear from them again. This has been their MO in other cases. With a warrant there will likely end up a legal fight which will be a lot more money then those rifle worth.
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#62
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Atf at my house (DOJ?)
I call balogney. You have 8 MIB show up at your house and your unwise enough to post about it? And in a way that’s not even articulate or lays out the facts properly? Nonsense. Something is not being said here. It’s not full dicclose if it’s legit
Last edited by Yodaman; 10-22-2018 at 8:09 PM.. |
#63
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#64
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1415817 |
#66
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I can see how someone can mistakenly think acquisition "before the deadline" includes *all* BBAWs before July 1, 2018. There were a few stories of people who thought they could build a BBAW after Dec 31, 2016 but before July 1, 2018. Out of all the applications, gotta be hundreds maybe thousands of these situations statewide. |
#67
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With that in mind, let's look at your first question - the fenced and gated house. As I said before, LEOs need a source of legal standing to engage in any activity that intrudes upon the rights of another. Search warrants are a great source of legal standing, but they take time to get, and they require a showing of PC and currency of that PC to a judge. As for consensual encounters, and consensual searches, I like to use the "Girl Scout" example. The LEOs can pretty much go anywhere that the Girl Scout can go to sell cookies. If you have the typical tract house, they can go on the driveway and up to the front door. The fenced in back yard is different. Legal types use the term "curtilage" to describe those parts of the property that you have made off-limits to the public (as opposed to simply being private property). An LEO seeking consent to conduct a search is free to walk up to front door and knock, but cannot force entry into closed off areas under a consent theory. If you choose to place an obstacle in the path to the front door, then we're starting to split hairs and courts could differ in their analyses. A court strictly applying the curtilage theory would likely fault the LEO, another court could equally well hold that that it is reasonable that a method be present to contact the occupants of a dwelling and that officers choosing the least intrusive method of contact acted reasonably. But one thing is clear about consent based searches - consent must be voluntarily given. You have every right to decline consent. That's one reason that I didn't like to undertake consent based searches. The existence of consent would normally be disputed if there were charges and then I had a court battle that could have easily been avoided by getting a warrant. The other reason that I like warrants is because they give me ownership of the legal "Gray Area." Think of searches as being clearly lawful or clearly unlawful and with the "Gray Area" in-between. If I do a consent based search, and the lawfulness is questioned at trial, the burden is on the prosecution to show it was clearly lawful. If the court finds the search to be clearly unlawful, or in the "Gray Area", the product of the search gets tossed out of court. But if I do that same search with a warrant, the burden is on the defendant to show it was clearly unlawful in order to get the results tossed. If the court finds the search was in the "Gray Area", I get to keep my evidence in court. That's a big difference. The problem with search warrants in the DOJ APPS type situations is that the LEO has to show that the information providing PC is "current." There are a bunch of court cases suggesting that the outer limits of "currency" are about 30 days. The DOS or VOLREG type records that lead to a visit from the nice APPS folks typically are outside of that time period. As to your second question - How to prevent such encounters, my best advice is to ensure that none of your activities raise the suspicions of law enforcement. But I also understand that's pretty hard to do with respect to AW registrations. The law is quite complex and counter-intuitive. That makes it hard for law abiding folks to follow the rules, and IMHO that's indicative of bad law. But nonetheless, it's still binding law. I also have to split my answer on this one. There's two different approaches to law enforcement. The traditional model puts officers in the field with a very broad mission to ensure public safety. The law is viewed as one tool to accomplish those ends. We look for suspicious activity, and then do field investigations to determine if there is criminal conduct. A typical "Batting Average" is that one arrest will result from every ten field investigations. More folks are doing things right than are doing things wrong. My advice in this model of policing is that if you haven't done anything wrong, help the officer to understand, and put yourself into the 90% group. That's a minor imposition on you and it helps the officer get to the 10% group. Living in a society has a price tag. It's not free. It may mean spending some time in Army, or cooperating in a field investigation. The other enforcement model is targeted enforcement. The DOJ APPS is a good example. The model calls for dedicated enforcement to disproportionately impact perceived serious problems. That's a noble objective, but it can go sideways when coupled with a political objective. That makes some caution worthwhile. With that caution in mind, I would seek to confer with counsel if there was any DOJ interest in my firearms. One of the key things that you have to keep in mind with attorneys is that you want to be very careful in choosing one, and then you need to follow their advice. Don't take legal advice over the internet. There's a lot of bad information out there. If you're hit with a "cold call" request for a search, I'd stay very polite and simply point out that you need to confer with counsel before responding. Don't be dickhead about it, but simply make clear that's it a big decision and you need to be properly advised before making it.
__________________
If you build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the evening. If you set a man on fire, you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
#69
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Or he set up that "meeting" and now he's in the pokey.
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#70
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Anyone heard of this sort of thing happening to a unique serial applicant? Some CA compliant devices like a hellfighter kit dont look like compliant devices in pictures......
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
#71
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#73
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Did the DOJ kick down the OP’s door yet?
__________________
Some say that he once mooned two prostitutes just for a round of drinks, but wasn't surprised by the reply......They call him, the Hutch Some say that he rode a dirtbike 7k miles across the country and that he once applied Bengay to his own testicles for a mere $50............They call him, the Hutch -Top Gear http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/...CCAB7CE8D70F60 |
#74
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Thank you Rick D for the response. That is along the lines of what I expected, based on my interest of case law and how it is applied. Not very often do we get to hear from the side of the equation that actually carries out the law in its application. As I have for many years practiced, the best way to avoid problems is to not set yourself up for interacting with those who enforce the rules, weather we agree with said rules or not.
I have been able to fully gate and fence my residences in such a manner that when I wish NOBODY can get near enough to the residence living areas uninvited without forcing their way in; they must call, honk their horn, or yell the 400'+ to get our attention. In the few cases wherein LE wished to make contact (question about neighbors), we simply walk down the drive to chat through the locked gate. I would hope that others who can arrange their properties do the same, if nothing else for their own security. |
#75
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I think he is wisely heeding advice and not posting about this anymore.
Maybe when it is all resolved.
__________________
#NotMyPresident #ArrestFauci |
#77
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What's stopping him from taking all of these said rifles out of state to a family member, Calguns member, or anyone else's house? Why can't he store these out-of-state off site and keep them in any way he wants to keep them? By the way if that is said to be legal, feel free to come 2 Idaho and drop them at my place for safekeeping. This is a legit answer too.
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#78
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Featureless then, featureless now.
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CA Ex-Pat US Navy Veteran NRA Life Member Springfield Armory & Smith&Wesson & Remington & Henry & Marlin ------------------------------------ "Why does anyone need an AR-15? You mean you don't know? So what kind of reporter are you? It's easy! It's a great friggen gun!" - Alan Korwin, 2015 |
#79
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Glad you're not in Kansas anymore?
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
#80
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I'd like to know how it comes out eventually. I guess separating them in storage would prevent any sort of violations or not?
__________________
"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
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