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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here. |
View Poll Results: Safe to have photographer downrange as portrayed in the video? | |||
Yes | 19 | 8.92% | |
No | 194 | 91.08% | |
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll |
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#41
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LUNACY! As a photographer who has shot many professional firearms instructors for all print and media over the years, not once has anything like this ever been considered, EVER! And, my photos have come out well enough to be used in print without putting anyone unnecessarily at risk.
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#42
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Given your claimed expertise, I'd love to know how to set up shots like that on a decent budget with remote equipment.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-12-2012 at 3:30 PM.. |
#43
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Anyone claiming to be a photographer should already have the equipment to setup that shot, particularly the shot in the video.
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#44
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Here's a link to the Todd Jarrett footage I mentioned earlier: CLICK HERE How many will be just as critical of Todd shooting steel at a range of inches (instead of the recommend 10 yard minimum), not mounted at an angle, with a cameraman obviously in the line of possible ricochets at fairly close distance?
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-12-2012 at 3:40 PM.. |
#45
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I seriously can't believe that you are advocating this in any form. Infinitely so if you are any kind of instructor. I do appreciate your original post, for the fact that it informs me that Mr. Gibson is too stupid to ever get my money or recommendation.
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My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions. Last edited by Gryff; 02-12-2012 at 3:39 PM.. |
#46
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http://www.nikonusa.com/Nikon-Produc...RatingsReviews http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Shutt.../dp/B002N65P7W Basic camera and tripod. There you go. No one gets hurt or killed by stupidity. |
#47
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NO.
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#51
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#52
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On an unrelated note to that video, if I were setting up the shot that is in the OP's video I'd be setup on a tripod, with a remote with several reflectors on my subject. He is shooting while the sun is high in the sky creating harsh shadows on the underside and to the cameras right of his subjects. Without reflectors or some other secondary light source I can guarantee his shots were mediocre at best. |
#53
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This thread is asked the question... "safe to put a photographer downrange?" Simple answer. NO Does it violate firearms safety rules? YES I know nothing about you zombietactics or what you do and have no opinion good or bad like someone suggested about others. My only concern is for someone who doesn't know any better to unnecessary put themselves or someone else at risk. |
#54
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It appears that Todd (and you) also draw your own lines regarding safety. You won't get any crap from me, I just note the potential hypocrisy of such a position.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#57
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In the video posted by the OP, the links provided would accomplish that shot while eliminating someone getting shot. Show me a video of what your trying to accomplish...With the Todd footage, the cameraman is not directly in front of the muzzle.
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#58
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http://www.remington.com/products/ar...rator-ctf.aspx Those ones have a 5 foot safe distance for head on... and he's shooting at what appears to be new targets at an angle. Anyways... -- Michael |
#59
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Maybe, maybe not. It says nothing about the lack of a downward angle for the targets themselves.I agree that there is nothing so fundamentally unsafe in that video to warrant bashing. Even so, it's important to note that Todd has gotten so much crap about the original (on his YouTube channel) from "safety sallies" (sounds familiar) that he's marked it "private". That's one of the reasons why I posted a LiveLeak link. I use it simply as an example of someone technically doing something "wrong", but not necessarily unsafe. My contention is still that the FOUR RULES are the only universal safety rules.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-12-2012 at 4:50 PM.. |
#60
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#61
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http://www.iccammo.com/annouce2.htm
I'm thinking a definite maybe. Quote:
-- Michael |
#62
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+1 million to this being more than just plain stupid!
NO ONE should ever be downrange in the open at a shooting range when live fire is going that way, EVER! Remote controlled cameras are what should be used for this viewpoint. If I ever saw this going on at a range where I was a safety officer, everyone involved would be ejected immediately after a very stern warning on how dangerous and stupid that kind of thing is! I'm outa' here, absolutely amazing that anyone could think this is safe in any way :-( |
#64
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Not only NO, but HELL NO! Foolish nonsense by ignorant people with more balls than brains.
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#65
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I would have to say that if you were the owner of the school or the owner of the range it should make you really concerned !!!
The guy with his finger on the trigger is wonderful !!!! That says it all for me regarding the guy that thought going down range was ok. Some have experience and some die or get injured obtaining it . |
#67
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COMMON SENSE GUYS!! COME ON!!
The thing about safety is it is obvious. The video is not safe practice, I have seen in other classes photographers get "brave" but nothing to the reckless level of the video.
The hilarious thing is people claim this to be safe but if you watch carefully the cameraman instructs the student in the blue shirt how to fix a malfunction. I don't know why but with the context of everything associated with the video it made me laugh I watched it three times. I'm sorry but if the students are at the level where you have to instruct them to clear a malfunction you shouldn't be in front of their muzzles. And no its not just the guy in the blue shirt as the guy next to him did a tactical reload and put his spent magazine into his primary magazine slot while keeping his finger ND ready on the trigger guard. Yes you have to start somewhere so I'm not trying to bag on any of them but most if not all seem beginner level. I know how people want to defend their favorite instructor or justify what they did in class was safe but you are doing no one, including the school, a favor by making excuses. You just look bad and make the school look worse. The only possible answer from the people involved and the people trying to defend the video should be: "Yeah it was unsafe, deal with it." We all mess up safety at some point or be a little reckless. You get more respect if you own up to it rather than live in denial. |
#68
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OCSD Approved CCW Instructor NRA Certified Instructor CA DOJ Certified Instructor Glock Certified Armorer |
#69
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Any one else notice the large amount of time for some of the students to fire the required 5 shots?
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WTB/WTT http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=524335 Once you've had the volume turned all the way up, that low-level noise just doesn't matter anymore. |
#70
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I would submit that IF you are of the opinion that it's crazy-insane-unsafe for the cameraman to be forward of the line, it's even more batcrap-insane to suggest that they shoot faster. Wouldn't you at the very least want them to slow the flark down a bit?
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#71
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I alternate between my own version of the high ready, a compressed low ready, and something I don't know what to call except "running ready" ... sometimes you see Haley or Gomez using this last position. The last thing you'd ever want is a position which obscures your field of view or places the gun "way out there" somewhere, IMHO. YMMV.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-13-2012 at 11:49 AM.. |
#72
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Maybe if they were shooting Airsoft...but I think he's violating the 2 degree rule.
If you decided to throw out every gun safety rule in existence this still has FAIL written all over it. When somebody gets a Darwin award for epic stupidity the media and anti's are going to have a field day.
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"A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future." - Robert A Heinlein. |
#73
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NO! No $@#% way!
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Please visit my firearms training website at http://www.stcrispian.com |
#74
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I'm finding it incredible that 9 voted that it was safe.
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"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." Wayne LaPierre, NRA Press Conference, 12/21/12 |
#75
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 02-13-2012 at 1:36 PM.. |
#76
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An almost incredulous result if attributed to individuals!
Firearms safety is a continuing process and not an event and both an individual and collective responsibility.
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
#77
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"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
- Giordano Bruno, burned to death by Inquisition While the above is a pithy retort, I in no way imply that my opinion is "the truth" regarding this subject. I'd humbly suggest however that many learn to recognize their own opinions as such.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#78
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I appreciate the rest of your input as well, except for the unnecessary insulting bits. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
__________________
| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#79
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Need an action photo from downrange? Do it with a remote camera or don't do it at all.
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#80
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Wait for nighttime on a dark night. Very dark.
Set up a mirror about 6 feet from the shooter. Shooter stands slightly to left of mirror, photo to shooters right. Shooter aims at mirror, reflection shows him shooting at photographer. Set camera to bulb. Get sound activator for flash. Shoot the gun. Flash fires. Image is made as bullet leaves the barrel. Mirror shatters. Get new mirror, repeat from top.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
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