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  #1  
Old 09-13-2017, 4:00 PM
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Default Non-lead 30-30 round?

Hey all, just picked up a Winchester model 94 wouldn't mind hunting with it here. Anyway, I'm having a hard time finding any CA appropriate ammo. Does it even exist? Any and all help would be appreciated.
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Old 09-13-2017, 4:04 PM
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Barnes VOR-TX ammo. Midway has it.
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Old 09-13-2017, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kdsd731 View Post
Barnes VOR-TX ammo. Midway has it.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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Old 09-13-2017, 4:19 PM
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Cabela's has the Barnes VOR-TX 30-30 for $26.24 a box. In stock.
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Old 09-13-2017, 5:14 PM
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https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLo...ItemsPerPage=0
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Old 09-13-2017, 6:23 PM
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Ive found some winchester stuff at wal mart, a lil cheaper and works fine on jacks and yotes
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Old 09-13-2017, 7:44 PM
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You can also reload, if you have the time/interest.
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Old 09-13-2017, 8:23 PM
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The following are lead free rounds in 30-30. Availability may vary. Cabela's, Bass Pro, Midway, Sportsman's Warehouse all have at least some of them.

Winchester Super-X Power-Core 95/5
Hornady LEVERevolution MonoFlex
Barnes VOR-TX
Hornady Full Boar
Buffalo Bore
Remington HTP Copper
Federal Premium Vital-Shok

Link for MidwayUSA Lead Free 30-30 Ammo
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLo...ItemsPerPage=0

Last edited by Irishfisher; 09-15-2017 at 5:55 AM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 8:32 PM
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I'm thinking OP is looking for non-lead. That's why a couple of us mentioned Barnes VOR-TX ammo. Seems Cabela's has the best pricing.
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Old 09-13-2017, 8:43 PM
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Thanks all! I was able to find some of the VOR-TX at the Bass Pro in San Jose and had a buddy pick me up a box. Hopefully I'll be able to connect with it.
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Old 09-13-2017, 9:35 PM
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This is helpful, both question and answers, to put an old Marlin 336 To good use.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:05 PM
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Was doing some sighting in at SDR&G range with various 30-30 lever action rounds, Marlin 336...getting decent groups at 100 yards. Loaded up some Barnes tsx to see how they compare to some reloads, some factory loads and Hornady Leverevolution.

OMG, the Barnes were scary accurate. Took ten shots, all 9 ring --- ten shots, six holes. Again OMG, I packed up my target and went home and kept staring at it in disbelief. And...I'm not that good a shot....
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
I'm thinking OP is looking for non-lead. That's why a couple of us mentioned Barnes VOR-TX ammo. Seems Cabela's has the best pricing.
Winchester lead free is what I was talking about. About 1$ a round vs 1.75 ish
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Old 09-14-2017, 5:20 AM
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Quote:
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Winchester lead free is what I was talking about. About 1$ a round vs 1.75 ish
Good to know[I didn't]. Another option. Thanks.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainLeo View Post
Thanks all! I was able to find some of the VOR-TX at the Bass Pro in San Jose and had a buddy pick me up a box. Hopefully I'll be able to connect with it.
you should check and see if your Poa is the same it can change sometimes when you shoot non lead
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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Glad to hear some have had better luck with the barnes 30-30s. I tried them out of an old pre-64. With my lead handloads or even factory lead, I can usually get pretty darned close to smacking a gallon jug at 200 yards with just a peep. Not every time but close enough to feel comfortable at 100-150 yards for hunting. But with the Barnes factory loads, I got similar groups but only at 100 yards. Pretty dismal, as far as I was concerned.

I tried handloading some 130 gr TTSX with the ballistic tip sanded off & the groups tightened up back again. But those need a lot more velocity to expand, according to Barnes, than the HPs and the 30-30 just isn't made for that kind of speed. The accuracy was there but I didn't feel safe enough to push it to the speed it needed to still open up at the longer ranges. It was still a 100 yard max gun with non-lead ammo. To me, it's just sad to see such a good deer round & rifle be made obsolete by an act of regulation. seems like the non-lead rules shouldn't apply to older rounds that don't generate the pressures and speeds that cause massive fragmentation like the more modern cartridges. But, alas, that's CA.

Hopefully, the Barnes will work. Otherwise, it may be time for a new rifle.
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Old 09-14-2017, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Glad to hear some have had better luck with the barnes 30-30s. I tried them out of an old pre-64. With my lead handloads or even factory lead, I can usually get pretty darned close to smacking a gallon jug at 200 yards with just a peep. Not every time but close enough to feel comfortable at 100-150 yards for hunting. But with the Barnes factory loads, I got similar groups but only at 100 yards. Pretty dismal, as far as I was concerned.

I tried handloading some 130 gr TTSX with the ballistic tip sanded off & the groups tightened up back again. But those need a lot more velocity to expand, according to Barnes, than the HPs and the 30-30 just isn't made for that kind of speed. The accuracy was there but I didn't feel safe enough to push it to the speed it needed to still open up at the longer ranges. It was still a 100 yard max gun with non-lead ammo. To me, it's just sad to see such a good deer round & rifle be made obsolete by an act of regulation. seems like the non-lead rules shouldn't apply to older rounds that don't generate the pressures and speeds that cause massive fragmentation like the more modern cartridges. But, alas, that's CA.

Hopefully, the Barnes will work. Otherwise, it may be time for a new rifle.
Probably not that big of deal for you any way since deer hunting is all luck
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Old 09-14-2017, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Probably not that big of deal for you any way since deer hunting is all luck
Tuche! I deserve that one.

Even less of a deal now that I don't even hunt with a rifle these days.

Not to hijack the thread, but being luck-driven isn't the same as ALL luck. A blind squirrel can get a nut every now and then but still exits the gene pool in a short period of time. Me, I'm still out hunting for some reason.

Last edited by CVShooter; 09-14-2017 at 1:59 PM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 9:32 PM
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FYI, the .308 caliber Barnes TTSX bullets (VOR-TX rounds) and Hornady GMX (Superformance, Full Boar) that I have seen and used in my 308, '06, and 300win are pointy plastic tipped bullets, and might not be ideal for tubular magazines. But the mfgs may be using a non-pointy version for the 30-30? Just a thought.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjjeremy View Post
FYI, the .308 caliber Barnes TTSX bullets (VOR-TX rounds) and Hornady GMX (Superformance, Full Boar) that I have seen and used in my 308, '06, and 300win are pointy plastic tipped bullets, and might not be ideal for tubular magazines. But the mfgs may be using a non-pointy version for the 30-30? Just a thought.
Leverevolution is the same way. They work fine.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:15 PM
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[QUOTE=CVShooter;20646499]it's just sad to see such a good deer round & rifle be made obsolete by an act of regulation. /QUOTE]


The way I see it, if a pointy 400gr stick can kill a deer at 200fps, a .308 bullet will kill it at 1500fps. A deer isn't going far with holes in the lungs, a split heart or liver, or busted shoulders or spine. Remember, people have been killing deer with slow ball ammo for hundreds of years.
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Old 09-15-2017, 8:51 AM
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[QUOTE=jjjjeremy;20648886]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
it's just sad to see such a good deer round & rifle be made obsolete by an act of regulation. /QUOTE]


The way I see it, if a pointy 400gr stick can kill a deer at 200fps, a .308 bullet will kill it at 1500fps. A deer isn't going far with holes in the lungs, a split heart or liver, or busted shoulders or spine. Remember, people have been killing deer with slow ball ammo for hundreds of years.
Killin's the easy part and only a means to an end. We can kill with .22s. Overkill just makes the recovery game a little easier. Recovering the meat & hide is the objective. I don't sleep well if the deer is still in the field somewhere after being shot. In dense brush, even a 20-yard sprint can lose a deer in low light. Besides, even the best of us make the occasional marginal shot.

A pointy stick has to be a minimum of .89 in caliber terms. I'm good with a slow projectile as long as it's fat & heavy. At .308 and 130 gr., I want it fast to expand. As I recall, the 30 caliber was considered marginal for a while after introduction. But it proved itself through expansion. It was only by pushing it faster (2000 fps was fast for its time) and getting expansion that made it worthy for hunting. In other words, a 30 caliber is effective because it's actually a 45, 50 or even 75 in waiting. But only if it's going fast enough.

Last edited by CVShooter; 09-15-2017 at 8:53 AM..
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Old 09-15-2017, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Leverevolution is the same way. They work fine.
TTSX is a hard plastic, not like the more soft leverevolution. It's probably fine but I wouldn't chance it. You have to handload a TTSX and you have to shave the plastic point off all the way down to the copper so it's more of a hollow point. Otherwise, the overall length is too long and it won't feed or eject. I still wouldn't put more than 2 or 3 in the mag, just to be safe. Barnes uses a wider hollow point bullet in 150 gr for the factory load. Those should be perfectly safe.
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Old 09-15-2017, 5:11 PM
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The majority of the 30-30 loads from various manufactures (Barnes, Remington and Buffalo Bore) using Barnes bullets are using the TSX not TTSX. They are a flat nosed hollow point suitable for tubular magazines.

The Hornady Full Boar and Leverevolution use their Monoflex tipped bullets which are safe for tubular magazines.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:40 AM
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I prefer the hornady over the barnes...I bought about 10 different brands for my .308 to see which shot best. The barnes did not perform well at all. Dont forget that each rifle will perform differently with different types of ammo, you have to find yous.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:05 AM
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When switching from lead to Barnes I've had the best luck (at the prompting from another user here, Divernhunter) when I've made sure to scrub all the copper out of my bore before switching. In my experience it seems to be less of (or not) an issue when switching from gilding metal jacketed lead bullets to gilding metal monometal bullets (i.e. to GMX, E-Tip, 95/5, etc).
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoot-it View Post
you should check and see if your Poa is the same it can change sometimes when you shoot non lead
Good point,
it could well be waaay off.

At the range a couple of weeks ago i was grouping about 6" with powder coated 168 gr. handloads in .357 from a rossi 92 @100.

I tried a few of the vortex....not even on the paper and no surprise really.
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