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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 09-07-2017, 7:44 PM
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Default SHTF and no fuel scenario

Just became real for people in Hurricane Path.

https://phys.org/news/2017-09-fuel-s...r-florida.html

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Old 09-07-2017, 7:55 PM
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It gets real, fast.

Not that easy to keep spare gasoline either. Generators have quite an appetite too.
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Old 09-07-2017, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
It gets real, fast.

Not that easy to keep spare gasoline either. Generators have quite an appetite too.
My personal truck is always full my boat usually has fuel in it too atleast 10 gallons during off season more during summer and i also keep a 35 gallon drum that i use for desert season to transport fuel that will have anywhere from 15-25 gallons in it.Fuel gets rotated often enough to not worry about it going bad.

And honda generators can go a week on 5 gallons pretty easy running it for what you need.When we go to glamis i get there sat and can make it to wed before i need to refill it running it for about 4 hrs a day for charging batts on trailer or just powering outside flood lights.
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Old 09-07-2017, 9:30 PM
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Not much point here in So Cal. It takes half a tank or more just to get out of the OC/LA area under normal conditions. With the crushing traffic you'd face in an emergency, it'd take 2-3 tanks of fuel to get anywhere and even if you had that much fuel, there's no where to go - it's all desert out there.
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Old 09-07-2017, 9:48 PM
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That is why I always have my tanks more than 1/2 full plus 25 gallons stored. My household also have 6 cars for 4 drivers and every one of us is aware to never let the tank get below 1/4 tank so if need be I can always tap the spare cars.
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Old 09-07-2017, 9:56 PM
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Propane powered generator.

I have around 20 gallons of gas available. I also have a siphon/transfer hose to remove gas from boats, atv's, riding lawn mowed, etc.

Stabil and an ethonal remover will keep it fresh for months.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2017, 6:19 PM
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Ive always been a big fan of jobsite refueling cells that fit in the back of a pickup truck... ive been looking into one thats concealed in a truck bed tool box.... 60-90 gallons worth of capacity... anyone have experience with these...?
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Old 09-12-2017, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flatbedtruckin View Post
Ive always been a big fan of jobsite refueling cells that fit in the back of a pickup truck... ive been looking into one thats concealed in a truck bed tool box.... 60-90 gallons worth of capacity... anyone have experience with these...?
They work well, however they're a big problem for contractors and theft even today because they can only be secured by a pad lock and lack of electricity to run the pump. Even had one come into the shop where it looked like someone took a pickaxe to the top and siphoned the gas out. I think your only hope might be getting one custom built to fit under a tonneau cover, or sacrifice capacity to make it look like a toolbox. I know a few years ago you could buy a replacement gas tank for superduty trucks to increase the internal capacity to 55ish gallons.

Edit: yeah quick google search and depending on your truck you can over double its current capacity https://www.transferflow.com/fuel-ta...lacement-tanks
They even sell tanks that are designed to fit under roll-top covers.

Someone else mentioned a propane generator; there are kits available for specific engines to run on propane only. You could safely store "fuel" on your property without drawing too much attention, and even put extra tanks in your vehicle if you're planning a long drive.

Last edited by OutlawStar; 09-12-2017 at 6:43 PM..
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Old 09-12-2017, 7:19 PM
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100LL AvGas keeps well.
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Old 09-12-2017, 9:08 PM
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I always wondered how those characters in TWD, could drive around in cars/trucks. Not to mention hotwire cars after several years of non use
lol
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2017, 9:35 PM
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I think having some emergency gas is critical today. Everything we do revolves around our vehicles.

I keep 10 gal and 5 gal metal cans full and rotate them about every 6 months.

I know 15 gal isn't a lot but for my 30 mpg vehicle it is enough and the smaller sizes are easier to manage. I normally carry the 10 gal on trips and keep the 5 for misc things like the chainsaw.
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Old 09-12-2017, 9:42 PM
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I have a 91 gallon fuel tank in the bed and rotate the fuel every six months or so. I never let my main tank drop below half so I should have over 100 gallons or more if we get a good quake and it shuts down the pumps. Mine sits under the bed cover so it's out of sight and locked.
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Not much point here in So Cal. It takes half a tank or more just to get out of the OC/LA area under normal conditions. With the crushing traffic you'd face in an emergency, it'd take 2-3 tanks of fuel to get anywhere and even if you had that much fuel, there's no where to go - it's all desert out there.
Exactly right. Even San Diego would be a stretch due to traffic.
Hell, it's murder to get there during Comic Con!
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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Depending on the region, each area has it's highest risks that can cause devastation. In Calif we enjoy earthquakes as the primary danger followed by fire, drought, tsunami and Democrats. Loss of power affects each region differently, in most of Calif the weather won't kill us.

I've been in most of the large earth quakes in Calif since the 1971, my house was destroyed in the 1994 Northridge quake, I was in the Big Bear 7.5 & 6.9, in Norwalk for the Whittier Narrows and now I'm starting to think that I'm the problem.

My experience is after the initial shock is over, everyone gets out of the building to check for damage and then the neighbors help anyone with an emergency like fire, water break or collapse. Depending how long the power / gas / water is off, some folks fire up the BBQ to cook thawing food which stays cold for 2-3 days, others get their preps out, still others join together for a mutual support group.

Luckily none of the big quakes have been an 8 or 9, so food, water, power and emergency services have been available. When we do have the big one, you won't be going anywhere and driving will be impossible. In an 8 or 9 earthquake, you won't have cell or land phones, no electricity, probably no water and you won't have any news for hours.

You need to make friends with your neighbors, they are your greatest resource and your greatest threat. Everyone in your hood has a vested interest in their survival, so as long at they contribute and aren't a parasite or pain in the ***, take advantage of their knowledge and labor. I have stored extra food for neighbors who are willing to help protect the hood, I have extra water filters (Katadyn & Berkfeld), I don't have nor do I like guns, so I'll use the power of persuassion to disarm any bad guys.

Nobody can remain an island when those around you are hungry, hurt or desperate. The best thing you can do is have a neighborhood group that wants to prepare and hopefully there are those who will prep.

Last edited by OCGunFan; 09-13-2017 at 12:23 PM..
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2017, 9:40 PM
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I don't have nor do I like guns.
We all have that in common!
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  #16  
Old 09-13-2017, 9:50 PM
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Danged boating accident...again.
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2017, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Not much point here in So Cal. It takes half a tank or more just to get out of the OC/LA area under normal conditions. With the crushing traffic you'd face in an emergency, it'd take 2-3 tanks of fuel to get anywhere and even if you had that much fuel, there's no where to go - it's all desert out there.
Incorrect

Come on. Most people in California have suvs or 4 cylinder vehicles with a 600 mile range with a full tank of gas. I am one of many. Plus if the shtf most folks will be driving off-road if need be in an AWD vehicle as well. I can almost get to Utah (700 miles from Southern California) on a full tank of gas. Again been there done that and that's from Southern California. I am inland. I can get to Mesquite Nevada pretty quick and it's a hop skip and and a jump to Utah. I have driven to Maine and back many times so I know the roads and backroads and dirt roads. People living on the west coast should always always go east.. East coast folks should always go west.
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Old 09-14-2017, 4:16 AM
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Good to be prepared. God only knows when the next cataclysmic event will take place...
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:16 AM
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Incorrect

Come on. Most people in California have suvs or 4 cylinder vehicles with a 600 mile range with a full tank of gas. I am one of many. Plus if the shtf most folks will be driving off-road if need be in an AWD vehicle as well. I can almost get to Utah (700 miles from Southern California) on a full tank of gas. Again been there done that and that's from Southern California. I am inland. I can get to Mesquite Nevada pretty quick and it's a hop skip and and a jump to Utah. I have driven to Maine and back many times so I know the roads and backroads and dirt roads. People living on the west coast should always always go east.. East coast folks should always go west.
Might work in a non-get outta dodge scenario, but when it comes to poo hit the fan, it is not an option (unless you have access to aircraft or maybe a boat)
I am very familiar with off roads as well (as are many other folks) when the freeways/roads get backed up- in a very fast time, the back-roads will be next. Not only that but you will have to go around folks on foot and those folks might be desperate.
Vivid example (although hollywoodish) -"War of the worlds" when Mr Cruise tried to drive near a parade of refugees.
Unless you have 24hr or more notice (b4 anyone else) I think most will be doing 1 of several things---
1. Sitting in "freeway parking lot"
2.Trying to get last can of pineapple slices @ walmart
3. Waiting it out @ home wondering why FEMA has not arrived (w/o supplies)
4. Same as 3 but with supplies.
5. Roaming streets and looking for targets 1-2-3-4 above.
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Old 09-16-2017, 4:37 PM
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I have AWD and get 28 mpg in the city, and about 32 mpg on the freeway.

5 gal of emergency gas benefits me 2x as much as the typical p/u or suv.

Also, everyone should have a siphon!
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Old 09-16-2017, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
I think having some emergency gas is critical today. Everything we do revolves around our vehicles.

I keep 10 gal and 5 gal metal cans full and rotate them about every 6 months.
This. After the power went out in San Diego/So Cal in 2011, I ramped up my preps to include gas and propane.
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Old 09-16-2017, 6:05 PM
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100LL AvGas keeps well.
Cheaper to add stabil - I always used car gas in my Cessna 182.
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Old 09-16-2017, 6:10 PM
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The old Mercedes Diesel Engines could burn just about anything you could pump through the fuel lines.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:35 PM
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The old Mercedes Diesel Engines could burn just about anything you could pump through the fuel lines.
In the 70s Army we made faux diesel from a mix of gasoline and 40 weight oil for the 2.5T multi-fuel trucks when we ran out of diesel fuel. Those engines would eat anything close to diesel.
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Old 09-17-2017, 8:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Endless View Post
Incorrect

Come on. Most people in California have suvs or 4 cylinder vehicles with a 600 mile range with a full tank of gas. I am one of many. Plus if the shtf most folks will be driving off-road if need be in an AWD vehicle as well. I can almost get to Utah (700 miles from Southern California) on a full tank of gas. Again been there done that and that's from Southern California. I am inland. I can get to Mesquite Nevada pretty quick and it's a hop skip and and a jump to Utah. I have driven to Maine and back many times so I know the roads and backroads and dirt roads. People living on the west coast should always always go east.. East coast folks should always go west.
If only two roads out of the LA basin are passable how do you expect to move? I am not counting the various off-road or dirt roads leading east. Did you see the pictures and videos of people attempting to evacuate from Irma. It was taking folks hours to move just a few miles!

It is not unusual for it to take 25 minutes to move 2.5 miles in some areas of SoCal during rush hour.

However, as someone pointed out, an earthquake is probably the most likely shtf event we will encounter. Hurricanes and tsunamis not a factor unless you live in a low lying coastal area. Once the shaking of the quake is over, there is genereally not a need to leave the area. House too damaged to live in? Backyard camping time. You do have some basic gear right?
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Old 09-17-2017, 8:19 AM
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If only two roads out of the LA basin are passable how do you expect to move? I am not counting the various off-road or dirt roads leading east. Did you see the pictures and videos of people attempting to evacuate from Irma. It was taking folks hours to move just a few miles!

It is not unusual for it to take 25 minutes to move 2.5 miles in some areas of SoCal during rush hour.

However, as someone pointed out, an earthquake is probably the most likely shtf event we will encounter. Hurricanes and tsunamis not a factor unless you live in a low lying coastal area. Once the shaking of the quake is over, there is genereally not a need to leave the area. House too damaged to live in? Backyard camping time. You do have some basic gear right?
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Old 09-17-2017, 1:23 PM
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Originally Posted by smittty View Post
I have AWD and get 28 mpg in the city, and about 32 mpg on the freeway.

5 gal of emergency gas benefits me 2x as much as the typical p/u or suv.

Also, everyone should have a siphon!
Low gas mileage actually does not help you very much.

Measure your milage when in stop and go traffic sometime. Compare that to the milage of your vehicle idling in the driveway. Most vehicles use about 1 gallon of fuel per hour at minimum. That minimum doubles if the AC is on.

An 8 gallon tank at 10 miles an hour only goes ~80 miles with the AC off. My aunt was fleeing the hurricane and spent 23 hours going 5mph until she got to Georgia.
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Old 09-17-2017, 6:00 PM
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I don't have extra fuel, live in an apartment. Not really an option. I tried storing some outside, the cans got stolen. Hopefully I can stay put. 30 days water + a couple polar pures, 6 months food, light, radio, medical supplies.

EDIT: I do have a siphon set up.
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:04 PM
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What siphon hoses size fit into the fill spout of a typical vehicle?
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Old 09-18-2017, 6:28 AM
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People who fail to plan ahead; nothing new.

I even see it on prep forums: people who post " I'll fill my gas cans before a storm gets here".
Well, what if the emergency hits in the middle of the night, you drove home last night without filling up so you're at an eighth of a tank this morning, and the spare single can you own wasn't filled after you emptied the last of it into the lawn mower last Saturday. This morning there's no commercially available gas, for whatever reason.

Well, I guess that you're just plain screwed and are walking, pedaling, or relying on the generosity of others.
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Old 09-18-2017, 8:20 AM
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Short term fuel needs won't be a issue for me. I'm about a hour from the ranch tops from several routes.

I have never been able to solve the riddle of long term fuel needs if things really ever go to heck. We have 1200 gallons of diesel, about 1000 of gasoline and I just had the 1200 gallon propane tank filled. It is the cheapest time of the year to buy propane and other fuels.

We have a large off grid solar system but even that doesn't keep up with needs during the winter during high use. At some time you will have to replace your battery bank and that will be next to impossible. We use 48 volt forklift batteries that weigh about 4000 pounds. We hope to be able to scavenge batteries like that.

Long term is a riddle.
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Old 09-18-2017, 8:48 AM
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There is probably 3-5k gallons of gasoline on my block alone. Most of it will still be there after the people are gone. Question is do you have the tools and fortitude it will take to get/take it.
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Old 09-18-2017, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
The old Mercedes Diesel Engines could burn just about anything you could pump through the fuel lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smle-man View Post
In the 70s Army we made faux diesel from a mix of gasoline and 40 weight oil for the 2.5T multi-fuel trucks when we ran out of diesel fuel. Those engines would eat anything close to diesel.
Yes. I have run my 300SD on Veggie oil, and once in an emergency, I ran it on motor oil I had in the trunk. It didn't run great on motor oil, but runs fine on veggie oil.

Basically any diesel with an inline Bosch injection pump will run on veggie oil, even motor oil for a short time.

I have had the idea that if I ran out of fuel in the middle of no where, I could run a fuel line down the dipstick tube, and drive the car till it ran out of oil. lol There is two gallons of oil in the sump, so maybe 50 miles.
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Old 09-18-2017, 9:41 AM
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Short term fuel needs won't be a issue for me. I'm about a hour from the ranch tops from several routes.

I have never been able to solve the riddle of long term fuel needs if things really ever go to heck. We have 1200 gallons of diesel, about 1000 of gasoline and I just had the 1200 gallon propane tank filled. It is the cheapest time of the year to buy propane and other fuels.

We have a large off grid solar system but even that doesn't keep up with needs during the winter during high use. At some time you will have to replace your battery bank and that will be next to impossible. We use 48 volt forklift batteries that weigh about 4000 pounds. We hope to be able to scavenge batteries like that.

Long term is a riddle.
Assuming 2200 gallons of diesel and gasoline, thats probably a years worth of conservative fuel use with a vehicle, probably longer since you won't be commuting. As far as I know, gasoline tends to turn into varnish after about a year, and diesel doesn't fare much better when being stored. Are you using fuel stabilizers for all that?

Does propane stay stable for months of storage?
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:26 AM
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Assuming 2200 gallons of diesel and gasoline, thats probably a years worth of conservative fuel use with a vehicle, probably longer since you won't be commuting. As far as I know, gasoline tends to turn into varnish after about a year, and diesel doesn't fare much better when being stored. Are you using fuel stabilizers for all that?

Does propane stay stable for months of storage?
Diesel can be kept for 3 years plus easy, longer when treated for algae. We get no alcohol gas and keep it treated also. We have used treated fuel that has be stored for almost 4 years.

Propane keeps forever.

We are really self sufficient at the ranch and the only worry is long term fuel. Push comes to shove we could get by on about 100 gallons of diesel a year, enough to run the tractors for plowing and harvest.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:33 AM
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What's a good siphon set up? I was under the impression most modern cars where made very difficult to siphon.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:43 AM
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What's a good siphon set up? I was under the impression most modern cars where made very difficult to siphon.
Most have plastic tanks and people just punch a hole in them or cut the filler neck on them and slip in a hose. It not like you are coming back for seconds.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:00 PM
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Hugga Nugga Hugga Nugga is offline
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Yes. I have run my 300SD on Veggie oil, and once in an emergency, I ran it on motor oil I had in the trunk. It didn't run great on motor oil, but runs fine on veggie oil.

Basically any diesel with an inline Bosch injection pump will run on veggie oil, even motor oil for a short time.

I have had the idea that if I ran out of fuel in the middle of no where, I could run a fuel line down the dipstick tube, and drive the car till it ran out of oil. lol There is two gallons of oil in the sump, so maybe 50 miles.
When diesel fuel was around $4.50/gal I ran processed WMO at 90%. Just have to make sure it's cleaned and you run it hot.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:08 PM
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When diesel fuel was around $4.50/gal I ran processed WMO at 90%. Just have to make sure it's cleaned and you run it hot.
I sometimes find outdated fresh veggie oil for cheaper than diesel. In that case, I just pour it right in the tank. The only problem with clean veggie oil in a diesel is paraffin drop our and gelling. That will generally only happen below freezing. Here in SoCal, it only gets that cold once or twice a year.

My car actually runs better on veggie, than the crap diesel we get here in CA. Loves Biodiesel even better, but no one sells it around here anymore.
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LowThudd View Post
I sometimes find outdated fresh veggie oil for cheaper than diesel. In that case, I just pour it right in the tank. The only problem with clean veggie oil in a diesel is paraffin drop our and gelling. That will generally only happen below freezing. Here in SoCal, it only gets that cold once or twice a year.

My car actually runs better on veggie, than the crap diesel we get here in CA. Loves Biodiesel even better, but no one sells it around here anymore.
veggie oil freezes here and there is less supply of it as there are fewer place to buy/obtain it. veggie oil for long term use requires some fuel line upgrades due to bactierial decay. From what I learned, one needs to choose on or the other, as they are not as compatible..?
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