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CGSSA Range Cleanups Schedule dates and time to clean up outdoor ranges. If we don't who will?

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  #721  
Old 06-15-2016, 9:15 PM
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I have never been to the GF. Is there a "choke point" that could be (legally) gated so that it could be controlled something along the lines of Winchester Canyon?

If it can be gated/fenced, could a non-profit be formed to administer the site?
No, not really. There's a fire road that runs right behind the firing line. There's a gate just off ECC that blocks vehicle access to the range when fire restrictions are in effect, but there's tons of ways to walk around it.
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  #722  
Old 06-16-2016, 10:57 AM
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No, not really. There's a fire road that runs right behind the firing line. There's a gate just off ECC that blocks vehicle access to the range when fire restrictions are in effect, but there's tons of ways to walk around it.
Thanks...

I find POSs that leave a mess typically don't like to walk -- especially when they have to carry their "targets."

The GF will be gone one day -- likely sooner rather than later. A group should form to work with the landowner (SB County, BLM, State?) to bring this place under control.

First secure the place as best as possible. Then set hours and some basic rules. If people violate those hours have them arrested. One step at a time. To be honest, given its location I wonder if the NRA could be asked for help?

The NRA gives a lot of $$$ to gun ranges. Maybe they will provide the deep pockets necessary to secure the GF and truly operate it as a range?

The good part is that after a season of being operated as a range, the junkmeisters still stop coming...
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  #723  
Old 06-17-2016, 9:07 AM
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DUDES DUDES DUDES

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  #724  
Old 06-18-2016, 8:09 AM
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WE NEED YOUR HELP!


The clean up is next Saturday guys. We have posted notices on Ed Hat, The Santa Barbara Independent and at most of the gun shops in the county and in Ventura County. We only have a few people signed up to come help us remove the estimated 25-30 tons of garbage. Ideally we need about 50-75 volunteers to make this happen.

So far, we have some very nice prizes including:

1. A Tula 91/30 Mosin rifle - donated by Doug Golupski (you may take it home with you if you win it and have a valid FFL03 + COE. If you don't, you will have to meet at a local gun shop to do a PPT with the donor). Value is $250.00, Doug will pay for the winners PPT fee but winner will have to pay for their Firearms Safety Certificate, if they don't already have one.





2. A Marlin 795 .22 rifle - Donated by canthavenuthingood. (If you win it, you will have to make the trip down to Camarillo Gun Store to do the PPT. Winner pays all PPT fees or other misc. fees) Actual rifle may have synthetic or a wood stock.



3. Starbucks and Target gift cards
4. .22 LR ammo - donated by Camarillo Gun Store
5. Splatter Targets - donated by Camarillo Gun Store
6. Shooting Ear Plugs - donated by Camarillo Gun Store
7. A wide array of other shooting oriented prizes from local gun shops that are still coming in to be inventories and tabulated
8. $50.00 Gift Certificate donated by Valley Firearms
9. 22LR Brick donated by Goleta Valley Gun and Supply
10. 22LR Brick donated by Goleta Valley Gun and Supply
11. $20.00 cash donated by Goleta Valley Gun and Supply
12. Western Digital 1TB USB 2.5 HDD donated by Calgunner J-Shot
13. PNY 120GB 2.5 SSD donated by Calgunner J-Shot
14. Sandisk 16GB USB flash drive donated by Calgunner J-Shot
15. Monster 32GB MicroSD donated by Calgunner J-Shot
16. Apple Earpods donated by Calgunner J-Shot
17. LG External USB DVD donated by Calgunner J-Shot
18. Lenovo IdeaCentre 300 donated by Calgunner J-Shot

For those who have been to previous clean ups, you know that we never disappoint on prizes for our volunteers. There will be at least $1,000.00 and possibly more worth of prizes and with the small amount of volunteers signed up currently, you have a VERY good chance of winning a new rifle. Winners of a rifle and any ammo donated must be over 18 years of age, over 21 years of age for any handgun ammunition.

Please sign up - we need your help to save the Glass Factory. If we do not clean this place up, it's simple, the local residents who complain about the trash levels will pressure the local politicians into closing down the Glass Factory and local residents will have lost a beautiful, picturesque, FREE public shooting area. It's simple, if we don't act, nobody else will and the Glass Factory will be done.

The Official Glass Factory Clean Up Sign Up List
Saturday, June 25th, 2016


Organizers
Gtturborex
SoCalMountainMan
Capybara + 1

Volunteers
DougG + 1
davep23 + 1
Painted Cave Fire Department (4-5 firefighters and their tractor?)
Canthavenuthinggood
Steven A
Adrian C + 1
Nick D
Mike S + 2
Josh S
Mark V
Jim W
Mike Z
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Last edited by Capybara; 06-22-2016 at 7:58 AM..
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  #725  
Old 06-18-2016, 10:05 AM
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Is the fire north of Santa Barbara going to have any affect on next weekends cleanup efforts?

Vick
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  #726  
Old 06-18-2016, 10:37 AM
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Definitely keeping an eye on the Sherpa Fire but so far, it is pretty far north of us. Santa Barbara and Los Padres NF have a definite fire history, when I worked up there in the 80s, there was the HUGE Painted Cave fire that pretty much torched the entire area where the range is, hundreds lost their homes. it is very dry up there and anything can happen. Makes it tough to plan for the clean up but we will make a go/no go decision soon on if we have to re-schedule it.

As of this moment, not a huge concern, the El Capitan Canyon area is a good 20-25 miles from us as the crow flies but we will be in close contact with the Forest Service to see if smoke and or ash is a concern or chances of it spreading to our area is a concern. Also, just realized that if the Painted Cave FD is on the fire, even on clean up once it is contained, we may not have them available or their tractor. Will be communicating with our team members to make a decision soon.
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Last edited by Capybara; 06-18-2016 at 10:56 AM..
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  #727  
Old 06-18-2016, 10:57 AM
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Fire dept resources might not be available for our effort? ie tractor.
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  #728  
Old 06-18-2016, 11:47 AM
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That's exactly what we are thinking. We'll see how the fire and containment shapes up over the next day or two and will contact the Painted Cave FD to see what their take is.

The really not so great thing is if we re-schedule, the following weekend is July 4th weekend, lots of people, my family included, go camping on Friday so that will be out, then we are into mid-July. Going to be difficult to get people come out and clean up with the Summer heat up there. May possibly have to wait until Fall, which we really don't want to do at all, all of that trash will be up there for months and months.
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  #729  
Old 06-18-2016, 12:23 PM
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Understood and agree capy. Thank you for the updates and all the effort to push forward.
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  #730  
Old 06-18-2016, 6:55 PM
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Currently the air quality is horrible in the mountains there.
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  #731  
Old 06-18-2016, 8:34 PM
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hi Gents: I'll help with the cleanup if my schedule stays free next Saturday.
I missed your last one.
The trash sucks and shame on the losers who bring all that crap up there and think it's cool to leave a shot up garbage dump on the mountain.
The ninnies and political pressure to shut it down will continue no matter how clean it is, but at least the CalGuns volunteers have taken away one of their strongest arguments with past cleanups.
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  #732  
Old 06-19-2016, 7:57 PM
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That's exactly what we are thinking. We'll see how the fire and containment shapes up over the next day or two and will contact the Painted Cave FD to see what their take is...
I'm curious about something. When the GF is closed (for fire season or whatever) and the gate is locked do people still typically shoot there or do they cease because they're subject to arrest? Thanks.
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  #733  
Old 06-19-2016, 8:25 PM
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It stops most people but I've definitely seen evidence of people still shooting there when it's closed.

I was up there again today and the air quality was fine, depends mostly on the winds while the fire is going.
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  #734  
Old 06-20-2016, 5:36 AM
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  #735  
Old 06-22-2016, 3:47 PM
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Definitely illegal to shoot there now. I wish that the Forest Service had the manpower to arrest the idiots that are still shooting up there, they make the responsible members of the shooting community look bad. We are up to over $2,000.00 in prizes including two rifles for our clean up volunteers, a Tula 91/30 and a Marlin 795 .22 rifle, it's going to be a good time up there.

Hope you guys can all make it up there to help us.
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  #736  
Old 06-23-2016, 6:51 AM
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I'm getting the Jeep packed up tonight so my wife and I can escape from LA right after work tomorrow. Other than sunscreen, hat, gloves, water, etc, do we need to bring anything?
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  #737  
Old 06-23-2016, 8:04 AM
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I'm getting the Jeep packed up tonight so my wife and I can escape from LA right after work tomorrow. Other than sunscreen, hat, gloves, water, etc, do we need to bring anything?
If you have shovels or rakes that would help. Most of the time we have had extras to go around but if you have your own that would be good.
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  #738  
Old 06-23-2016, 8:14 AM
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If you have shovels or rakes that would help. Most of the time we have had extras to go around but if you have your own that would be good.
Sounds good, I'll see what we have. Thanks!
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  #739  
Old 06-23-2016, 1:01 PM
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I'm getting the Jeep packed up tonight so my wife and I can escape from LA right after work tomorrow. Other than sunscreen, hat, gloves, water, etc, do we need to bring anything?
Wear boots, not tennis shoes. Lots of sharp metal, broken glass. We also recommend long sleeve shirts and long pants, not shorts. It will be warm but better to sweat a little then to get bloody.
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  #740  
Old 06-23-2016, 1:02 PM
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Look what just showed up on my doorstep! Some VERY nice prizes for our volunteers donated by Calgunner J-Shot. Nice stuff, thanks!

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  #741  
Old 06-23-2016, 1:36 PM
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Nice assist j-shot! Thank you.


Misc Gear:
Shovel
Rake
Sunscreen

One off items that could be useful: Crow Bar, Bolt Cutters or Snips
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  #742  
Old 06-23-2016, 4:17 PM
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Just received words that not only is canthavenuthinggood donating our Marlin 795 .22 rifle that we are giving to a lucky volunteer, he is also sending us a nice assortment of Calguns t-shirts, hats and other goodies. You guys who can't find a free day in your schedule to help us clean up are really missing out on some nice gifts for your efforts besides the satisfaction of helping us keep the Glass Factory open.

If canthavenuthinggood sends us his usual generous package of goodies, the retail value of our prizes for clean up volunteers has now exceeded $2,600.00!!! Who knows, I may have some last minute donations that will push our prizes to over $3,000.00 retail!! All you have to do to win is show up and help us clean up, let us feed you lunch and then sit back and collect your prizes. Unless a lot of unexpected volunteers show up who didn't sign up, I can almost guarantee that if you help us with the clean up, you will win at least one very nice prize, a very good chance you may even win multiple prizes!
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  #743  
Old 06-24-2016, 7:03 AM
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No problem hope you have a successful run at it!

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Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Nice assist j-shot! Thank you.


Misc Gear:
Shovel
Rake
Sunscreen

One off items that could be useful: Crow Bar, Bolt Cutters or Snips
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  #744  
Old 06-24-2016, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Just received words that not only is canthavenuthinggood donating our Marlin 795 .22 rifle that we are giving to a lucky volunteer, he is also sending us a nice assortment of Calguns t-shirts, hats and other goodies. You guys who can't find a free day in your schedule to help us clean up are really missing out on some nice gifts for your efforts besides the satisfaction of helping us keep the Glass Factory open.

If canthavenuthinggood sends us his usual generous package of goodies, the retail value of our prizes for clean up volunteers has now exceeded $2,600.00!!! Who knows, I may have some last minute donations that will push our prizes to over $3,000.00 retail!! All you have to do to win is show up and help us clean up, let us feed you lunch and then sit back and collect your prizes. Unless a lot of unexpected volunteers show up who didn't sign up, I can almost guarantee that if you help us with the clean up, you will win at least one very nice prize, a very good chance you may even win multiple prizes!
Full steam ahead for tomorrow, Capy? No access issues due to fire?

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Old 06-24-2016, 6:03 PM
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No problem hope you have a successful run at it!
I'm not making it out. Had tentatively planned on it but 100% gotta work tomorrow.

Good luck tomorrow!
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  #746  
Old 06-25-2016, 6:47 AM
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Hey guys, running a bit behind. Should be there around 830.
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  #747  
Old 06-25-2016, 6:20 PM
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It was an awesome day with one of the hardest working group of volunteers we have had! Pictures to follow soon, been up since 3:00 AM to make this event happen. Removed 18 tons of garbage, the place sparkles. Big thanks to everyone who showed up, everyone who donated drawing prizes for the volunteers and all of the support of Ranger Larry and the Painted Cave FD!
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  #748  
Old 06-25-2016, 8:17 PM
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It's wonderful that you all are taking the time and making the effort to clean up the GF again.

I do think thought that you should look into a long term solution. Working with the landowner, secure the site as best as possible and possibly operate the range for a set number of hours each day with a volunteer RSO(s).

I think it would take 3-4 felony arrests of people shooting "outside the wire" and/or outside of range hours to make the PsOS take notice.

Any real victory would require real coordination with the gov't.

I know if I was a Santa Barbaran I would look into it...
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  #749  
Old 06-26-2016, 7:42 AM
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Have already researched this a year ago and we discussed this yesterday with the Ranger. It's very simple, we would need an angel investor with about $250k to viably do this. Costs to the Forest Service to lease the land, insurance, lead abatement, fencing, 24 hour armed employee/security guard, generators, fuel, video surveillance, targets, benches. Without a quarter million dollars from an investor who would be okay with possibly just breaking even, if we were lucky, it would never happen.

We would have to charge a minimum of $10.00 a head to make it worthwhile and we are located less than 8 miles from Winchester Canyon Gun Club, a place with beautiful facilities, trap, skeet, pistol and long range rifle. As a local shooter, why would I go to the Glass Factory and have to pay $10.00 per visit when I could join Winchester Canyon for $150.00 per year and have access to all of their beautiful facilities? The things that make the Glass Factory special are it is free, no RSOs, it is in a beautiful location and you can shoot whatever style you want, bump fire, draw from holster, rapid fire, prone, all of the stuff that most ranges won't allow. Turning the Glass Factory into a shooting range, versus a public shooting area, doesn't pencil out.
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Last edited by Capybara; 06-26-2016 at 11:19 AM..
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Old 06-26-2016, 9:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Have already researched this a year ago and we discussed this yesterday with the Ranger. It's very simple, we would need an angel investor with about $250k to viably do this. Costs to the Forest Service to lease the land, insurance, lead abatement, fencing, 24 hour aermed employee/security guard, generators, fuel, video surveillance, targets, benches. Without a quarter million dollars from an investor who would be okay with possibly just breaking even, if we were lucky, it would never happen.

We would have to charge a minimum of $10.00 a head to make it worthwhile and we are located less than 8 miles from Winchester Canyon Gun Club, a place with beautiful facilities, trap , skeet, pistol and long range rifle. As a local shooter, why would I go to the Glass Factory and have to pay $10.00 per visit when I could join Winchester Canyon for $150.00 per year and have access to all of their beautiful facilities? The things that make the Glass Factory special are it is free, no RSOs, it is in a beautiful location and you can shoot whatever style you want, bump fire, draw from holster, rapid fire, prone, all of the stuff that most ranges won't allow. Turning the Glass Factory into a shooting range, versus a public shooting area, doesn't pencil out.
I'm not sure why there would be costs associated with a lease (unless it was a dollar a year), insurance (someone is already insuring it), lead abatement (someone is or isn't already doing that) and all the rest except for the fencing, targets and benches?

We used to have a place like the GF here locally up the coast from SB. Much bigger actually and it wasn't treated like a dump either. Someone got a bug and closed it or had it closed. All it took was the posting of signs and a handful of arrests and people ceased shooting up there.

I suspect if a fenced range was located on that property today with posted hours, people would be extremely compliant -- and thankful.

One thing that would be interesting is to prepare a realistic, bare-bones budget and see how much (if any) would be funded by the NRA. The local public range where I shoot receives $$$ from the NRA on an annual basis.
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Old 06-26-2016, 9:17 AM
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A little dense are we? Guy, you're talking about a major operation. Please stop making it sound as if it's just as easy as a trip to the grocery store. Or step up and make it happen.

Have you even written that paper yet?
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Old 06-26-2016, 11:31 AM
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I reiterate, why would anyone go to a range that is small and restricted as far as distance and variety of types of shooting possible when they can go to an established, clean and very nice range less than eight miles away where almost all types of shooting are possible? Max target distance at the Glass Factory is 216 yards up a steep hill, 125 yards for more level ground. As far as costs, you can ask the people who run Burro Canyon down in San Bernardino county if the Forest Service leases them the land for a dollar (it's far more). In order for a range like the GF to succeed, it must be financed and ran like a business and the costs just don't add up, the market is over saturated since there a bigger, nicer established range so close. The main reason people shoot at the GF is because it's FREE! It would no longer be free so a large portion of the existing and potential new customers would not go for it. As far as insurance, have you priced out gun range insurance lately? The Forest Service has insurance, we all had to sign waivers yesterday but I don't think a governmental blanket policy for the National Forest is the same as a private insurance policy that a shooting range under private management would need. I am not a lawyer or insurance expert so feel free to correct me.

If you really get down to it, we, all of us taxpayers and Americans OWN the GF already so it rubs many to have to pay to use what we already own even though we all do it to enter Yosemite or like places. If you want to lead the effort to do so, feel free, but you will need between $200k and $250k in funds to do it right and to install enough facilities to differentiate from Winchester Canyon Gun Club and even then it is questionable as to whether or not someone could even recoup costs, much less turn a profit.

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I'm not sure why there would be costs associated with a lease (unless it was a dollar a year), insurance (someone is already insuring it), lead abatement (someone is or isn't already doing that) and all the rest except for the fencing, targets and benches?

We used to have a place like the GF here locally up the coast from SB. Much bigger actually and it wasn't treated like a dump either. Someone got a bug and closed it or had it closed. All it took was the posting of signs and a handful of arrests and people ceased shooting up there.

I suspect if a fenced range was located on that property today with posted hours, people would be extremely compliant -- and thankful.

One thing that would be interesting is to prepare a realistic, bare-bones budget and see how much (if any) would be funded by the NRA. The local public range where I shoot receives $$$ from the NRA on an annual basis.
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Last edited by Capybara; 06-26-2016 at 3:35 PM..
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Old 06-26-2016, 7:24 PM
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I reiterate, why would anyone go to a range that is small and restricted...

...Have already researched this a year ago and we discussed this yesterday with the Ranger. It's very simple, we would need an angel investor with about $250k to viably do this. Costs to the Forest Service to lease the land, insurance, lead abatement, fencing, 24 hour aermed employee/security guard, generators, fuel, video surveillance, targets, benches. Without a quarter million dollars from an investor who would be okay with possibly just breaking even, if we were lucky, it would never happen...
Again why would there need to be a costly lease with the Forrest Service? I can see a dollar a year lease, but nothing that would add materially to the cost of securing the GF.

Why wouldn't the Forrest Service allow you to essentially use their insurance? You would be solving an ongoing problem for them. It's not as if you would be allowing activities that are currently not allowed.

Same with "lead abatement." That's a sunk cost for the Forrest Service whether the GF operates as it does today versus in a more formal, secured manner.

All of the above could be negotiated with the Forrest Service.

Why would there need to be a "24 hour aermed employee/security guard"? Do people really ignore the law when it will lead to a fairly serious arrest? All they did here was post the land as off limits to shooting. I suspect there was a few arrests/citations at first but no one shoots there anymore -- after shooting there since the 1950's.

Similarly, what's the generators, fuel, and video surveillance for? Do you think you're going to have to run a cash register or lights for evening shoots?

Until you're honest about the costs, this discussion is a waste of time.

The users would indeed pay for targets but it shouldn't cost $10.00/shooter.

The fencing would be a considerable cost but not a quarter of a million. If it actually solved an ongoing problem, I could see some of the funding coming from the Forest Service itself.

You know, right up the road in Santa Maria California there was an "insurmountable" problem with the use of illegal fireworks in the city at night throughout the year.

Finally someone (city council?, SMPD?) decided to play hardball. People shooting off illegal fireworks now get arrested and hit with a $1K citation. I understand that a month into this program, the illegal fireworks shows are already drying up. This coming weekend will be the big test.

I figure it would take a half dozen arrests/stiff citations around the GF to get the word out.
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Wouldn't it be great if the real world also had an Ignore List?

Last edited by Duesenberg; 06-26-2016 at 7:28 PM..
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Old 06-26-2016, 7:30 PM
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Again why would there need to be a costly leave with the Forrest Service? I can see a dollar a year lease, but nothing that would add materially to the cost of securing the GF.
He's already had these discussions with the Forrest Service. He's not pulling the numbers out of his ***. Why would you assume they would be able to just lease it for a dollar?

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Same with "lead abatement." That's a sunk cost for the Forrest Service whether the GF operates as it does today versus in a more formal, secured manner.
Lead is one of the issues that people are using to try to get it shut down currently. There is no current lead abatement and it is unlikely that a permanent arrangement could be reached to formalize its use as a range (rather than just a place where shooting is allowed) without some form of lead abatement.

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All of the above could be negotiated with the Forrest Service.
It sounds like you are volunteering.
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Old 06-26-2016, 7:32 PM
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Any real victory would require real coordination with the gov't.
The local/regional government is trying to have it shut down. What would be their motivation to coordinate anything?
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Old 06-26-2016, 7:33 PM
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It was an awesome day with one of the hardest working group of volunteers we have had! Pictures to follow soon, been up since 3:00 AM to make this event happen. Removed 18 tons of garbage, the place sparkles. Big thanks to everyone who showed up, everyone who donated drawing prizes for the volunteers and all of the support of Ranger Larry and the Painted Cave FD!
I would have joined you guys but my wife just gave birth so my priorities were elsewhere. We were actually still in the hospital all of that day.
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Old 06-27-2016, 1:20 AM
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Okay, you get a pass UMD. Congratulations on the new addition, although you could have won that '39 Tula 91/30 we gave away. Hmm...baby or new Mosin, that must have been a tough choice ;-)

Duesenberg, the realities, business and otherwise are not getting through to you so if you are convinced you can make this all happen this easily, you are welcome to contact the Forest Service and begin negotiations immediately, PM me and I will give you names, phone numbers and e-mail addresses. Just so you know, I am an NRA RSO, we are trained in how to safely set up a range. We worked up a range plan and SOP with two other NRA RSOs, but you sound confident that you have a workable plan that the Forest Service will jump on so please, and I am sure you have the skills needed to design and execute your plan so be my guest. It's public land, our team of clean up coordinators have no more right to it than you do so show us how it's done. Let us know how it goes.
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Last edited by Capybara; 06-27-2016 at 1:23 AM..
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Old 06-27-2016, 1:37 AM
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Photos from the Saturday, June 25th, 2016 Clean Up of the Glass Factory. With a smaller than expected turnout of 20 volunteers, we still kicked butt and removed 18 tons of garbage from the range. The temps were 96 degrees with 10-25mph winds with gusts of up to 40mph that almost took away our pop-up canopies. Our volunteers were rewarded prizes totaling more than $2,000.00 retail value and a GREAT time was had by all. Drinking lots of water, we had no sunstroke, heat stroke or exhaustion, we wrapped around 4:00 PM.

Many thanks to all of our hard working volunteers, coordinator team, Marborg Industries of Santa Barbara for their continued support

Calguns.net member Doug Golupski - Grand Prize (1939 all matching Tula 91/30 rifle, sling, ammo pouches and bayonet!)
Gunsr4.us - Grand Prize + Calguns swag (Brand New Marlin 795 22 semi-auto rifle!)

Prize Giveaway Sponsors
Goleta Valley Gun and Supply
Valley Firearms and Ammo - Buellton
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Calguns member J-Shot (A huge bundle of very nice computing equipment!)

Special Appreciation
Painted Cave Fire Department
Ranger Larry Griffith









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Old 06-27-2016, 1:40 AM
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Old 06-27-2016, 1:43 AM
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