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  #481  
Old 09-23-2014, 5:38 PM
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Have you actually tried to apply? Or are you just scared off by the application? Have you talked to the deputies there? I did. They admit the secondary part of the application is VOLUNTARY. Like Wayne Gretzky says "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
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  #482  
Old 09-23-2014, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Budguy21 View Post
Have you actually tried to apply? Or are you just scared off by the application? Have you talked to the deputies there? I did. They admit the secondary part of the application is VOLUNTARY. Like Wayne Gretzky says "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
No I haven't bothered to apply yet. Since I'm not exactly in a big hurry, I'm hoping to hear from someone that filled out the California DOJ form only and got accepted.

The trouble is that them giving one a CCW is also strictly voluntary on their part.
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  #483  
Old 10-15-2014, 8:32 PM
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A quick range report from BCTC:
Cliff notes: simple and straight forward for the confident shooter
Head for the water tower and park inside the berm. As you enter the gate, there's a small building with a large dry erase board that indicates which numbered range bay is for CCW that day; proceed to that bay and check in with the instructor. They'll give instructions from there... Different days might be different staff. My experience though: fired 18 rounds total per weapon split at 15/10/7. I got tac'd up like crazy with all my pistols/mags on me only to find out that they do it in sticks where you'll have time in between to grab your other weapon/holster/mags. Follow the range commands! Somebody started popping as she was describing the course of fire. Safety first and always gents.
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  #484  
Old 10-28-2014, 3:55 PM
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Well 383green?

I'm wondering how your appointment went. Did they accept your application without all the other crap? Of course it's too soon for a decision but I just wondered how you were treated without supplying all that extra crap?
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  #485  
Old 10-28-2014, 4:31 PM
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Well 383green?

I'm wondering how your appointment went. Did they accept your application without all the other crap? Of course it's too soon for a decision but I just wondered how you were treated without supplying all that extra crap?
I'm sorry that I forgot to post an update in this thread. I've posted a detailed account of my interview in post number 1002 of the "or else" thread.
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  #486  
Old 10-28-2014, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 383green View Post
I'm sorry that I forgot to post an update in this thread. I've posted a detailed account of my interview in post number 1002 of the "or else" thread.
Great write up. Thanks for taking the shot for the rest of us.
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  #487  
Old 11-04-2014, 8:52 AM
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Here's a pro-tip:

For anyone having trouble filling out the app and wanting it to look professional: you can download "Libre Office" suite online for free and the "draw" program will allow you to add text fields into a PDF. That's how I ended up completing my application. You can simply add text fields into anywhere you need to add information and save the document as a pdf as you continue to complete it.

You can get LibreOffice for free here: http://www.libreoffice.org/
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  #488  
Old 11-13-2014, 9:31 AM
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Trying to get an idea of timeline to receive your permit. Had my interview on 10/21, turned in missing items and Livescan receipt on 10/23. CCW class on 11/1 and qualified at Ben Clark 11/12. How far out are they in issuing permits?
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  #489  
Old 11-13-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AR-Realtor View Post
Trying to get an idea of timeline to receive your permit. Had my interview on 10/21, turned in missing items and Livescan receipt on 10/23. CCW class on 11/1 and qualified at Ben Clark 11/12. How far out are they in issuing permits?
You still have some time bud. I took the class and qualified before my initial interview. My interview was on May 12 and the outstanding items & Livescan was turned in on June 2. Permit in hand July 15. I can only imagine they are busier now than they were then.

Last edited by Finnick; 11-13-2014 at 12:16 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #490  
Old 11-13-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AR-Realtor View Post
Trying to get an idea of timeline to receive your permit. Had my interview on 10/21, turned in missing items and Livescan receipt on 10/23. CCW class on 11/1 and qualified at Ben Clark 11/12. How far out are they in issuing permits?
It really depends on where your application timeline falls in relation to when they send the batches to admin for review.

I would advise that you plan on at least 60 days from when you had everything completed in your file. If it happens sooner, you will be pleasantly surprised.
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  #491  
Old 11-13-2014, 12:35 PM
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I did things on almost the same days as you, AR-Realtor, though you probably pulled a bit ahead of me by doing your Live Scan faster. From what Deputy Aguirre told me, I'm expecting to find out what happens around the end of this year, give or take a week. I'm really curious about whether yesterday's Peruta announcement changes anything, because otherwise, I'm expecting a denial letter based on my good cause statement ("Self Defense").

Good luck!
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  #492  
Old 11-13-2014, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AR-Realtor View Post
Trying to get an idea of timeline to receive your permit. Had my interview on 10/21, turned in missing items and Livescan receipt on 10/23. CCW class on 11/1 and qualified at Ben Clark 11/12. How far out are they in issuing permits?
Interview on 7 August with complete packet. Did Livescan as soon as I left BC. Livescan (CA) came back around the beginning of September, packet went "upstairs". Got pre-approval with my complete GC on 1 October. Took the class on 4 Oct and shot on 15 Oct. A week or so after Qual my packet went back upstairs for final signing. It's still there.
My advice would be, if you know your GC is solid, don't wait for preapproval otherwise it seems your app has to go through the approval process twice.
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  #493  
Old 11-13-2014, 1:22 PM
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So it's looking like end of December, that would make a great christmas present!! Deputy Aguirre said that he didn't see anything that would hold me up and I should be "good to go". We will see
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  #494  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:18 AM
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Default News Release from Sheriff Sniff re: CCW

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pres...n14-1113-1.asp

X-posted:

CCWs - The following statement was released by the Sheriff's Dept in response to a few inquiries this week about the 9th Circuit's latest Peruta decision to the media and our local county residents:

The Sheriff’s Department is aware of the latest decision in the Peruta case announced yesterday, November 12th. It will be a short time before the legal guidance for the some 400 California police departments and sheriff’s offices that are impacted change their Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) processes in California. CCW permits can be issued to residents by both city police chiefs and our county sheriffs throughout California.

Those issued CCW permits are good throughout California, licensing the permit holders to carry loaded handguns, hidden on their persons or in their vehicle, throughout our California communities.

Just as every other law enforcement agency, the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department will always comply with statutory law and finalized court directions in this and other legal matters. Residents are reminded that California CCW issuance is discretionary by the police chief or sheriff, and is based upon both reason of (1) self-defense or self-protection, AND (2) good moral character.

The Riverside County Sheriff’s Department does not anticipate a big increase in CCW applications with our agency, as our posture prior to yesterday’s Circuit Court decision has been both fair and reasonable for years, with a very large variety of so-called “good causes” being entirely acceptable – and each one simply articulated and expanded these very same “self-defense” and “self-protection” criteria outlined in Peruta. Many California law enforcement agencies have historically not issued CCWs to their residents and that is where we anticipate much greater impact as a result of yesterday’s decision by the 9th Circuit.

Riverside County residents are reminded that a CCW permit is not required to purchase a handgun and possess it for self-defense or personal protection within their home or within their place of business. CCW permits are required to carry a loaded, concealed firearm into our public places like driving on our roadways, and going to theaters, markets, and the like.

Unloaded or loaded firearms, openly displayed in clear view in a public place, generally remains a crime in California after “open carry” was banned by our state legislature just a few years back.

We may very well see the California Legislature react to this ruling by enacting new firearms laws this next year, and these issues in the various Circuit Courts may well still go forward to the SCOTUS.

The Riverside County Sheriff’s Department currently has approximately 1,200 CCWs issued across Riverside County. Nearly all of these have been issued after Sheriff Sniff took office in 2007.
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  #495  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:26 AM
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Sheriff Sniff sure is good at using a lot of words to say very little.
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  #496  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:45 AM
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"Residents are reminded that California CCW issuance is discretionary by the police chief or sheriff"

When is that hammer coming down?
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  #497  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
"Residents are reminded that California CCW issuance is discretionary by the police chief or sheriff"

When is that hammer coming down?
The rest of that sentence after the comma broke it down to Self-Defense and Good Moral Character. What more do you want??
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  #498  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:54 AM
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The rest of that sentence after the comma broke it down to Self-Defense and Good Moral Character. What more do you want??
I hope that is sarcasm. What I want is a system that is non-discretionary and not arbitrary.

They also think their posture has been both fair and reasonable for years. But their posture has kept many law-abiding citizens from having the ability to protect themselves.
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  #499  
Old 11-14-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaze View Post
The rest of that sentence after the comma broke it down to Self-Defense and Good Moral Character. What more do you want??
Does the 2nd amendment say anything about Self-Defense and Good Moral Character?
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  #500  
Old 11-14-2014, 11:10 AM
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I hope they really don't believe that they aren't going to see a large increase in the number of applications. They will be sorely unprepared.

1200 issued for the entire county. I'd bet that number will jump pretty quickly into multiples of ten thousand.
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  #501  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:18 PM
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The pessimistic part of me (that part is most of me) notes that Sniff's statement does not say anything about changing his policy of not accepting "Self Defense" as adequate good cause. He seems to be trying to state that since the good cause statements that he accepts are derived from a desire for self defense, that they meet the requirements imposed by Peruta, despite requiring a statement that goes beyond simple "Self Defense".

This tells me that the hammer will most likely be required to get him to accept "Self Defense" as adequate good cause. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong about that, but to this date, all of the public statements I've seen attributed to Sheriff Sniff on this topic have appeared to be misleading political doublespeak to me.

We'll all know for sure by around the end of this year, when we see how his department treats my application which uses "Self Defense" as its entire good cause statement. We may well know before then, but I'm not aware of which applications using "Self Defense" as their entire good cause statement may be in the queue ahead of me. I hope that there are, and will continue to be, many other such applications in order to test the waters.
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  #502  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:25 PM
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This part looks troubling to me:

Quote:
AND (2) good moral character.
Why the need to emphasize the "AND" part? Might this be a signal of him switching to GMC as a reason to deny since lack of GC might be going away?
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  #503  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by camvoncrosshair View Post
This part looks troubling to me:







Why the need to emphasize the "AND" part? Might this be a signal of him switching to GMC as a reason to deny since lack of GC might be going away?

Sniff has always been transparent about his desire to maintain discretion at the local level. It's why he didn't support the move to a state managed CCW process. He believes that discretion is required to make sure "undesirables" don't get a CCW and misuse it. Unfortunately nobody seems to know what he considers "undesirable".

Up until now we've found that just about any employment related good cause is acceptable. Beyond that he doesn't seem to deny on GMC very often. I'm currently awaiting the final decision on if my non work good cause passes muster.
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  #504  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:44 PM
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The truly disturbing thing is 2 fold: that he thinks his current process is fair and reasonable. Also that the discretion is so unbridled that what might pass as good cause by one admin might not pass if a different admin reviews the file. You would expect at the very least that there be uniformity of policy, but from what the deputies said at my interview it's not that way.
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  #505  
Old 11-14-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
I hope they really don't believe that they aren't going to see a large increase in the number of applications. They will be sorely unprepared.



1200 issued for the entire county. I'd bet that number will jump pretty quickly into multiples of ten thousand.

I'm really hoping that the purpose of that statement is to prevent a mad rush to get your file at "the top of the file" and they hope that assuring people there isn't a big rush is their way of trying to reduce the crowd.

If they really believe that this won't cause an influx of applicants, they're more out of touch then even I imagined.
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  #506  
Old 11-14-2014, 1:03 PM
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Also that the discretion is so unbridled that what might pass as good cause by one admin might not pass if a different admin reviews the file. You would expect at the very least that there be uniformity of policy, but from what the deputies said at my interview it's not that way.
Am I mistaken, or didn't the old Guillory case specifically find that good cause criteria must be uniformly applied? Doesn't that mean that if an applicant is denied due to their good cause statement, while another applicant was approved with the same statement, that the denied applicant has grounds for a suit with the potential of a favorable summary judgement?

I may be talking out my backside here, but this is the impression that I have.
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Old 11-14-2014, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 383green View Post
Am I mistaken, or didn't the old Guillory case specifically find that good cause criteria must be uniformly applied? Doesn't that mean that if an applicant is denied due to their good cause statement, while another applicant was approved with the same statement, that the denied applicant has grounds for a suit with the potential of a favorable summary judgement?



I may be talking out my backside here, but this is the impression that I have.

That was my understanding as well, but when I talked with Brandon about it he stated that simply knowing acceptable good causes didn't help us at all. I'm not sure how or why that's the case, only that Brandon doesn't feel that's an angle to use.
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  #508  
Old 11-14-2014, 7:22 PM
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So we know that RCSD has never given examples of good cause, as that is subjective and different with every single applicant. Beyond that, it doesn't matter as what will be accepted by one admin might not be accepted by another. Frustrating and confusing, but is being worked on.

Now what about GMC? Has this been commonly used as a reason to deny? If it is the reason for denial, is the particular aspect of lack of GMC stated in the denial leter, or does it just use GMC as a blanket statement?
This is obviously very subjective as well. Should we start to track some of the denials based on GMC? Again, very subjective, but it could give us more to work with in fighting the GMC denials. If person A had a suspended license 5 years ago and is denied because of it, while person B had the same 3 years ago but is approved, it could show how issuance being discretionary is an easy way to violate the rights of the citizens.
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  #509  
Old 11-14-2014, 8:56 PM
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I've spoken with a lot of calgunners who have gone through the process this year. So far no one has told me that they've been denied for GMC.
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  #510  
Old 11-15-2014, 6:51 AM
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I've spoken with a lot of calgunners who have gone through the process this year. So far no one has told me that they've been denied for GMC.
But might that be about to change? With the wording on the press release, we should keep watch on what happens.
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  #511  
Old 11-15-2014, 7:00 AM
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My prediction is that in the near term, Sheriff Sniff will continue to deny based on the good cause statement. In particular, he will continue to deny for good cause statements that are effectively "Self Defense" with no embellishment. I read his statement as a justification of his current policies, without an indication of intent to change them.

That being said, it is nothing but my own semi-informed speculation. We'll see what happens over the next couple of months, as we learn about the dispositions of applications currently in his queue.

I'm not too concerned about whether he denies for good cause or good moral character, anyway. I believe that the CGF steamroller will be necessary to educate him about civil rights in either case, so I see the whole GC vs. GMC thing as a moot point.

I'll be the first to admit it and apologize if I'm wrong about all of this!
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Old 11-15-2014, 8:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 383green View Post
My prediction is that in the near term, Sheriff Sniff will continue to deny based on the good cause statement. In particular, he will continue to deny for good cause statements that are effectively "Self Defense" with no embellishment. I read his statement as a justification of his current policies, without an indication of intent to change them.
...
I'm not too concerned about whether he denies for good cause or good moral character, anyway. I believe that the CGF steamroller will be necessary to educate him about civil rights in either case, so I see the whole GC vs. GMC thing as a moot point.
Very good chance he will do exactly that, still require an expanded statement of GC. It very well might take some legal hammering to end this even with the assumed outcome of Peruta.

Since GC and GMC are different aspects, we need to be able to fight those unjust barriers on separate fronts.
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  #513  
Old 11-15-2014, 8:40 AM
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Since GC and GMC are different aspects, we need to be able to fight those unjust barriers on separate fronts.
I think that's a safe assumption at this time. I hope that we will find some way to do an end run around it all, but I don't know enough to for much of an opinion about what options might be possible. For now, we're making slow, positive progress towards the end goal of shall-issue-like carry in CA. I don't expect we'll achieve something like "Constitutional carry" in some states, but something reasonably close to shall-issue appears to be within our grasp within the next few years.
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Old 11-18-2014, 9:46 AM
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Here at Ben Clark early for my ccw interview and the building is evacuated because of a bomb threat!
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:22 AM
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Yikes!! I hope it's a false one, and that they catch whatever loser(s) that made the threat!
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:54 AM
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Here at Ben Clark early for my ccw interview and the building is evacuated because of a bomb threat!
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:55 AM
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Crazy someone brought in a live mortor shell
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Old 11-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by XDNINER View Post
Crazy someone brought in a live mortor shell
wow. first its amazing to think that these are out and about. and really, what would anybody use/need one for? SMH.

I wonder if this is a situation where somebody found it in a garage or something, and thought they should take it to the sheriff for disposal. similar things have happened, one fairly recently in the city of Riverside. I dont get why anybody would think it anything BUT a stupid idea to put it in their car and drive it someplace to be disposed of.
/off topic
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  #519  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:28 PM
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Sleighter Sleighter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camvoncrosshair View Post
wow. first its amazing to think that these are out and about. and really, what would anybody use/need one for? SMH.



I wonder if this is a situation where somebody found it in a garage or something, and thought they should take it to the sheriff for disposal. similar things have happened, one fairly recently in the city of Riverside. I dont get why anybody would think it anything BUT a stupid idea to put it in their car and drive it someplace to be disposed of.

/off topic

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  #520  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:43 PM
XDNINER XDNINER is offline
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Ya someone brought it in for disposal- bomb squad got some good training today. Apparently their local PD station told them to drop it off at Ben clark
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