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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:04 PM
KINGSFAN IN OC KINGSFAN IN OC is offline
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Default what if you accidentally leave LTC at home

I'm sure this has been asked before but I didn't find it.

So lets say hypothetically (this has not happened to me so far) you have your EDC on at home and you run to the store (Walmart, grocery store, Home Depot ect...) and you get there, complete your shopping and realize you left your wallet at home.

Not only do you not have money to pay for your junk but your LTC is in your wallet.

So on your way home you get pulled over for anything, tail light out whatever. So the cop asks you for lic/reg/insurance and you then have to say I am armed and my LTC is at home in my wallet......

What happens then? OCSD did supply a paper copy of my CCW when I picked up. I guess one could keep a copy of the CCW in every vehicle with the reg and insurance.

I know in Nevada if you don't have a copy on you its only a $25 fine
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:26 PM
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Dunno...

But..

Snap a pic of your permit and keep it on your phone so at least you have something
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:36 PM
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That's a good idea indeed. I'm gonna make copy of LTC and gonna put a copy in every vehicle, same with uscca insurance card, that way if the wife ever needed that info its available in multiple locations
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:41 PM
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If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
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Old 11-21-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlight View Post
Dunno...

But..

Snap a pic of your permit and keep it on your phone so at least you have something
Good idea, Fortunately IIRC carrying without your permit on you is not a crime in CA. But driving without your license is. Either way I would make sure my hands were where the officer could see them when I told them I have a Permit and go very slow following their directions from there. Also expect that traffic stop to last a bit longer then you would like while they verify everything and be thankful it they treat you gently.
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Old 11-21-2019, 1:49 PM
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Tossing your weapon in the trunk or putting it in it's lockbox you have cabled to the seat when you exit the store is what you do.
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Old 11-21-2019, 2:12 PM
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Yes ACfixer. This is what I've done in the past. Simply put it out of reach and preferably locked up.
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Old 11-21-2019, 2:49 PM
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I have a safe cabled to a seat in all my vehicles and a strong box thru bolted through the floor in the motor home.

Useful advice AC, thanks

Last edited by KINGSFAN IN OC; 11-21-2019 at 2:58 PM.. Reason: punctuation
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Old 11-21-2019, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
Glad it has not happened to me. It was a hypothetical question. I guess the sheriff that left her service weapon on a toilet stall isn't responsible enough to have a gun either.

Some ya'll gotta simmer down. **** man it was a question that is legitimate and your response was nothing but inflammatory and derogatory. No value at all but had to put your 2 cents in.

This is what makes forums suck, gotta wade through a bunch of useless crap and FUDD to get to useful info

Last edited by KINGSFAN IN OC; 11-21-2019 at 8:14 PM..
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Old 11-21-2019, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Fortunately IIRC carrying without your permit on you is not a crime in CA.
IIRC?
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Old 11-21-2019, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Good idea, Fortunately IIRC carrying without your permit on you is not a crime in CA. But driving without your license is.
Yep -
Quote:
If you do have a California drivers license and just failed to bring it along the ride, you’re likely going to be charged an infraction under California Vehicle Code Section 12951. Once you prove to the court that you do have a valid California drivers license, the charge is dismissed and it will not go on your record as a criminal violation. However, you’re not let off the hook THAT easy. Fines for infractions can be up to $250, not including fees.
https://www.aceable.com/blog/driving...in-california/

Of course, even though not carrying the LTC is not a crime, it's tough to prove one is not carrying illegally without it.
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Old 11-21-2019, 3:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
Or toss the gun in the trunk as soon as you figure out you screwed up.
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Old 11-21-2019, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN IN OC View Post
Glad it has not happened to me. It was a hypothetical question. I guess the sheriff that left his service weapon on a toilet stall isn't responsible enough to have a gun either.

Some ya'll gotta simmer down. **** man it was a question that is legitimate and your response was nothing but inflammatory and derogatory. No value at all but had to put your 2 cents in.

This is what makes forums suck, gotta wade through a bunch of useless crap and FUDD to get to useful info
There is a different set of standards applied by LEO to LEO.

While many of us believe CC is a right given by God and confirmed in the Bill of Rights, and that CCing is a responsibility, the reality is this is California where CC is per the discretion of the Sheriff or IA, period.

PLEASE don't do anything stupid like your hypothetical and bring discredit to those of us who respect the IA that issues our CC licenses.
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Old 11-21-2019, 4:21 PM
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First strategy is to get yourself disarmed (that way, you don't have to tell the officer you're armed...easy-peasy). As many have noted, the trunk or a lock box can achieve that. Transporting an unloaded firearm in a locked, secure container is legal. See CA PEN 25610

Since, sometimes, CCW holders must disarm and leave their gun in the car (schoolyards; post office, etc.), the CA PEN 25140 requires that the gun must be locked in the trunk or in a container out of plain site. Because of this, everybody who doesn't have a vehicle trunk has a lock case in their car...(or not).

Strategies:

-If you forget your license, you unload the weapon, lock it up, and drive home.

-If you don't have a lock case, then unload the weapon, separate the ammunition, and lock the gun and ammo in the trunk.

-If you don't have a trunk or a lockbox (not the glove box or center console), unload the gun and place it out of sight as far from your driving position as possible. Put the ammo somewhere else, out of sight.

Additional strategies:

-Check your tail lights regularly.

-Don't get stopped by cops.
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Old 11-21-2019, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN IN OC View Post
Glad it has not happened to me. It was a hypothetical question. I guess the sheriff that left his service weapon on a toilet stall isn't responsible enough to have a gun either.

Some ya'll gotta simmer down. **** man it was a question that is legitimate and your response was nothing but inflammatory and derogatory. No value at all but had to put your 2 cents in.

This is what makes forums suck, gotta wade through a bunch of useless crap and FUDD to get to useful info
As we all simmer down, perhaps you can provide some elaboration on the, "...sheriff that left his service weapon on a toilet stall...".

I don't recall hearing about that, but do remember in July, the Chief of Police of San Luis Obispo left her personal defense weapon in a stall, and she was sanctioned for it:
Quote:
There were two unintended City policy violations.

San Luis Obispo Police Department Policy 311.3.5 Authorized Secondary Handgun(d) that states: “The Handgun shall be carried concealed at all times and in such a manner as to prevent unintentional cocking, discharge or loss of physical control.”

San Luis Obispo Police Department Policy 339.5.10, Safety (a):“Failure to observe or violating department safety standards or safe working practices.”
Based on the facts of the incident and other considerations I will explain below; Chief Cantrell will receive the following consequences and follow-up actions:

-A one-time pay reduction of $1,598, equivalent to a two-day unpaid suspension, with documentation in her personnel file.
-Training in firearm safety practices.
-A personal discussion with all members of the Police Department about this incident and the lessons learned that apply to all officers carrying firearms.
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Old 11-21-2019, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
Oh come on...everyone has forgotten or lost their wallet at least once.

OP, just unload and put in trunk or lockbox.

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Old 11-21-2019, 5:51 PM
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Hope and pray the cop isn't a Ducks fan?
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Old 11-21-2019, 5:52 PM
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The cop can run your name and find out if you have a ccw or not.
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Old 11-21-2019, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
I doubt it.
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Old 11-21-2019, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlight View Post
Dunno...

But..

Snap a pic of your permit and keep it on your phone so at least you have something



I'm more likely to forget my phone, than my wallet!!!
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Old 11-21-2019, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maggie06 View Post
Oh come on...everyone has forgotten or lost their wallet at least once.

OP, just unload and put in trunk or lockbox.

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Yep. I remember I forgot mine once as I was going on a trip. Went back home but had my girlfriend drive. Just don’t get pulled over.

It happens. Now I’m more vigilant about it.
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Old 11-21-2019, 8:05 PM
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Dvrjon,
Yes that was it

Sheriff or Cheif of Police all the same. The point was that we are all human and can make mistakes....Echidin was so quick to point out that maybe someone wouldn't be responsible enough if they forgot their LTC, this lady forgot her piece in the loo...

I simply could not find a cal PC that was a criminal offense to not have the LTC in possession. I never leave my wallet, phone or keys at home

Last edited by KINGSFAN IN OC; 11-21-2019 at 8:24 PM.. Reason: punctuation
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Old 11-21-2019, 8:44 PM
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Keep a paper copy hidden in your car.


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Old 11-21-2019, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Keep a paper copy hidden in your car.


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Wait, but may be useless without ID should your ID be in you wallet as your LTC. Tough one.
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Old 11-21-2019, 9:22 PM
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Wait, but may be useless without ID should your ID be in you wallet as your LTC. Tough one.

Doesn’t the paper copy OC gives you have you picture on it? Not sure.


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Old 11-21-2019, 10:01 PM
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Doesn’t the paper copy OC gives you have you picture on it? Not sure.


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Nope, just weapons and personal info.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN IN OC View Post
IIRC?
If I Recall Correctly
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Old 11-22-2019, 4:02 AM
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If I forget my wallet at home, I simply get back in my vehicle and go get it. And yes, I have forgotten it on occasion.
I am not going to disarm and lock my weapon any place.


I have a valid driver's license and a valid CCW.
Easily verified via the computer in the patrol unit or the radio on the officer's hip.

If a officer is out to jam me up, then having it on my person or not will have little to no effect.


But I have to say, after driving for 48 years, in almost every state of the Union and several foreign countries, I have yet to meet one of these officers who are out to screw every one over.

But I am always polite, non- challenging and open in my few encounters.

Be calm and carry on.

Last edited by Old Marine; 11-22-2019 at 4:04 AM.. Reason: Correction
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Old 11-22-2019, 5:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.


This, plain and simple.
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Old 11-22-2019, 8:28 AM
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Unload the firearm. Throw the gun in your trunk. Done.
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN IN OC View Post
Glad it has not happened to me. It was a hypothetical question. I guess the sheriff that left her service weapon on a toilet stall isn't responsible enough to have a gun either.

Some ya'll gotta simmer down. **** man it was a question that is legitimate and your response was nothing but inflammatory and derogatory. No value at all but had to put your 2 cents in.

This is what makes forums suck, gotta wade through a bunch of useless crap and FUDD to get to useful info
Calm down, you are reading into it too much. I was generalizing, not singling you out. You asked a hypothetical question, I gave you a possible hypothetical outcome. Different game, different rules for LEO versus a citizen with CCW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Or toss the gun in the trunk as soon as you figure out you screwed up.
Also, an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maggie06 View Post
Oh come on...everyone has forgotten or lost their wallet at least once.

OP, just unload and put in trunk or lockbox.

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Sure, but any person accepting all responsibilities that come along with carrying should make the extra effort to ensure that doesn’t happen or have safe guards in place, as you mentioned.

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I doubt it.
Oh, well then that settles it, I guess
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Old 11-23-2019, 5:06 AM
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How about being responsible and not forgetting it? that is part of being a CCW holder. In eight years of carrying not once have I forgotten my permit. It really is very irresponsible of anyone to forget their permit. We (CCW holders!) are supposed to be more responsible than that!
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Old 11-23-2019, 7:53 AM
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If you don’t have your CCW permit with while carrying, you are then carrying illegally. Lock it up and return home.

Not all PD have access to who has or has not have a CCW permit.


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Old 11-23-2019, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex231 View Post
The cop can run your name and find out if you have a ccw or not.
This is untrue. There is not a state-wide system that keeps track of all LTCs for each county or department. Within the issuing city or county, it will normally be visible, and perhaps to some neighboring cities or counties, but there is no system in place that all agencies can see that you have been issued an LTC by a given IA.
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Old 11-23-2019, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.

Sure as hell... somebody in this forum will always come in on the tall horse and spew this almighty bull*****.
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Old 11-23-2019, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex231 View Post
The cop can run your name and find out if you have a ccw or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cable Guy View Post
This is untrue. There is not a state-wide system that keeps track of all LTCs for each county or department. Within the issuing city or county, it will normally be visible, and perhaps to some neighboring cities or counties, but there is no system in place that all agencies can see that you have been issued an LTC by a given IA.
Every permit carries a CII# (California Information and Identification Number). It’s associated to the permit holder’s fingerprint record. Every agency in the state can access that information in the field. The field officer can run the DL identification information and the CII can be accessed. Tripper explained this better a couple of years ago.

Also, every handgun authorized by an IA for carry is reported to OAG and entered into the Registry. If they run the gun, LEO can confirm its registered owner’s name and an annotation that it is identified as a CCW weapon. That gives them a start, and let’s hope you’re the registered owner....
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Old 11-23-2019, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltzgolf View Post
If you don’t have your CCW permit with while carrying, you are then carrying illegally. Lock it up and return home.
Please cite the specific section of law which requires an individual to actually carry the LTC. In fact, some agencies issue a credit-card type of ID and the paper license. Not carrying the LTC is not (IMLTHO) a good idea, but, it isn’t illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ltzgolf View Post
Not all PD have access to who has or has not have a CCW permit.
Yes, they do. Please see post above.[/QUOTE]
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  #38  
Old 11-23-2019, 6:04 PM
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Dvrjon Dvrjon is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echidin View Post
If you aren’t responsible enough to remember to have your CCW on you while carrying, might give them grounds to argue you aren’t responsible enough to carry.
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Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
Sure as hell... somebody in this forum will always come in on the tall horse and spew this almighty bull*****.
From Post #4, Echidin has taken a bunch of crap for this input, but, in the context of Orange County (the OP is from Orange County), one needs to be aware of the following Terms of License Acknowledgement Carry Concealed Weapon – CCW, under which the license is issued (and may be revoked).
Quote:
Terms Of the License:

The license holder shall agree to abide by the following terms for carrying a concealed weapon. Failure to do so shall result in the immediate suspension of the CCW license. Following an investigation by the CCW Licensing Unit into the matter, a determination will be made for re-issuance of the CCW.[...]

2) If contacted by a law enforcement officer for any reason, and the license holder is armed, the license holder shall immediately inform the officer they are a CCW licensee and when the officer requests the license holder’s CCW license, the license holder will provide their CCW license as proof they are legally carrying a concealed weapon.
3) License holder shall surrender the CCW license and/or concealed weapon to any sworn peace officer upon demand.

9) Restrictions by Act: Any of the following or similar acts while in possession of a firearm shall be considered a violation of the licensee’s general responsibilities as specified below:
j. failure to show license to any peace officer upon demand.
Whether you like it or not, Eichin’s caution in the context of OCSD seems valid.
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  #39  
Old 11-23-2019, 7:13 PM
Echidin Echidin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
Sure as hell... somebody in this forum will always come in on the tall horse and spew this almighty bull*****.
Welcome to Calguns, you are free to leave at anytime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
From Post #4, Echidin has taken a bunch of crap for this input, but, in the context of Orange County (the OP is from Orange County), one needs to be aware of the following Terms of License Acknowledgement Carry Concealed Weapon – CCW, under which the license is issued (and may be revoked).Whether you like it or not, Eichin’s caution in the context of OCSD seems valid.
Thanks for posting the info from OCSD. I don’t know why the possibility seems so far fetched to a few in this thread.
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  #40  
Old 11-24-2019, 8:49 AM
ex231 ex231 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Cable Guy View Post
This is untrue. There is not a state-wide system that keeps track of all LTCs for each county or department. Within the issuing city or county, it will normally be visible, and perhaps to some neighboring cities or counties, but there is no system in place that all agencies can see that you have been issued an LTC by a given IA.
Thanks, I was unaware of that. I've had mine run before but yeah, it was in the issuing county.
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