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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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"Posted: No Trespassing" vs "No Trespassing"
Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but anyway ...
What is the difference between "Posted: No Trespassing" and "No Trespassing" signs. The CA laws does not specifically define the difference. But from what little I remember from my "Intro to Law" class from college, the prof said there is a difference and the "Posted" has more weight -- something to do with registration with the city and enforcement(?). Can someone tell me the laws behind the difference? |
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I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.
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#3
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No... But it is wise.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~ |
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I guess it varies by state. Just interested as my family has proprty and would be surprised to find someone in the middle of the place.
http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/4239/136/ |
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I would think that unless you had the owners permission,or work for a company with acess rights(PG&E as an example) you could find yourself at gunpoint with some explaining to do to the owner. |
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Sometimes we drive, sometimes we hike, sometimes we fly in with the company helicopter.
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I've had a few very high profile people held by local LEOs while I did my job. In Ca, a surveyor or anyone working for a surveyor has the legal "right of entry" (I don't know what "access rights" are in a legal sense). We try to make contact when we can but, many times, we just get in and get out. We do a lot of work on high end properties with high profile neighbors so, we do encounter private security as well as property owners at times. The bottom line is that if I need to tresspass, I have the legal right to and I try to have the situational awareness and ability to bull scat my way out of any situation I find myself in. For those who don't want to believe this, here is the first link that my google fu produced:http://www.californiasurveyors.org/c...read.php?t=291
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 08-02-2011 at 9:22 PM.. |
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To answer the OP's question.. trespassing law in CA is pretty weak. The land owner or his agent needs to tell a person not to be on the property for the laws to even kick in. The signs are fairly worthless. At least that's what they taught us in the academy..
There was some case law on this a couple years back which weakened the law further. Don't remember the case but you should be able to look it up. |
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
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No difference unless there is a municipal code that says otherwise and gives registration requirements. Read the state law, penal code 602, et.al.
There's nothing in there that says you get a trump card in court if you can say, "Ha! My sign says posted on it!"
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Exactly, when we encounter so someone trespassing we typically admonish them and inform them the next time they are found on the property they could be arrested. Personally, I have yet to arrest someone for trespassing though I have known it to happen on occasion (likelyhood of reoccurrence etc).
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I always thought it was pretty common knowledge that surveyors were exempt from trespass laws. I wonder if it is the folks just don't see many surveyors in general?
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
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Not to argue but the state cannot grant you rights. They can grant you authority but they cannot grant you authority that violates others rights or is in violation of the constitution. And this obviously is.
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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. |
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Penal Code 552. This article (552 - 555.5) does not apply to any entry in the course of duty of any peace or police officer or other duly authorized public officer, nor does it apply to the lawful use of an established and existing right of way for public road purposes.
So CSACANNONEER is correct in his duty, but that's not my original question. The Penal Code doesn't say the difference between "Posted" and what not. |
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The government always has an easement on your private property to do their thing. If you look at your deed, you will see the language granting them a path to access water lines or power lines or whatever it may be that is on your property.
I know they give notice when they can but it's not required if they have that easement.
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I don't know of any difference between the signs. In the city I work in, a trespasser has to be admonished by either the landowner or a police officer (at the direction of the land owner). If they fail to comply they can be arrested. It's only a misdo, so we usually require a PPA unless we admonish and we witness. I've yet to see a DA file on any of the 602 violations we've arrested.
We do have some bussinesses that have letters on file w/ the PD that request us to make arrests on their behalf if we find people on their property. I have yet to utilize one of those letters, so I don't know the legalities of it. I'm sure the city attorney has some input on the creation of those letters and our ability to act on them. Usually telling people to leave in lieu of being arrested works. |
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No idea on the signs.
I have worked private security on and off for about 16 years. On many occassions I have had to tell people to leave a client's property. Only twice have they argued after being told that they would be arrested for tresspassing if they didn't leave. One time I called my dispatcher on the radio and told her to send the sheriff. The person left when they heard that. The second time they left when I said that I would also arrest for possession of stolen property if they did not leave. The property was the shopping cart that belonged to a neighboring store. I got the cart back and returned it to the store.
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"Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement." Winston Churchill “Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can” Samual Adams |
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I wish I were a cartoonist. I have this awesome mental image of a land surveyor looking over my fence trying to explain to my growling 80lb German Shepherd that he has a "Legal right to trespass". Last edited by msteel; 08-04-2011 at 8:25 AM.. |
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Having never met a sane surveyor, I'll have to take your word for it. But, I will agree that there is always a better way than putting oneself in a position where one needs to use force to defend oneself.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
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#26
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There is no difference between the signs. Our department has letter that people can leave with us giving us authority to cite for trespass as long as it is properly posted with locations prohibited and times if applicable.
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Being nervous/scare has helped keep me alive a few times. I always contact the owner/tenant when practical. When they resist or make threats, I have to call (and usually educate) local LEOs to help me do my job. This is very rare. I can usually talk my way in and try to tread lightly while tresspassing.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
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