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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1681  
Old 04-07-2019, 12:27 PM
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Closed again - PM when some party to the suit files a document.
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  #1682  
Old 04-08-2019, 9:30 PM
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h/t LVSox - the docketing letter for the 9th:

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ci...s/ca9/19-55376

The schedule is set as follows:
Mediation Questionnaire due on 04/11/2019.
Transcript ordered by 05/06/2019.
Transcript due 06/03/2019.

Appellant Xavier Becerra opening brief due 07/15/2019.

Appellees California Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc., Virginia Duncan, Richard Lewis, Patrick Lovette, David Marguglio and Christopher Waddell answering brief due 08/15/2019.

Appellant's optional reply brief is due 21 days after service of the answering brief. [11253683] (RT) [Entered: 04/04/2019 04:29 PM]

That's off into September.
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  #1683  
Old 04-25-2019, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes
There was an update to the Duncan Case today, new document submitted by defendant.

Declaration of Douglas Wormald re Notice of Judgment and Stay

http://michellawyers.com/wp-content/...d-Stay_102.pdf
That's the required notice to Law Enforcement from the Order.

Thank you, GuyFawkes.
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Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

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  #1684  
Old 07-15-2019, 8:21 PM
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opening brief has been filed

https://www.scribd.com/document/4176...-of-California


motion for judicial notice

https://www.scribd.com/document/4176...e-at-the-Ninth
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  #1685  
Old 07-15-2019, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
The brief is borderline disingenuous. For example, if memory serves, CA is the only state in the nation to require owners of grand-fathered LCMs to dispossess themselves of the magazines (aka take the LCMs from the rightful owners). Silence about that little factoid. Instead, CA-DoJ goes on about how the Court in Duncan was the first to overturn a state ban on LCMs.

There really should be some sort of penalty for lies.
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  #1686  
Old 07-15-2019, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
How does a set of news articles containing eyewitness reports qualify as 'legislative facts'?
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  #1687  
Old 07-15-2019, 8:51 PM
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If I’m not mistaken, this will get rubber-stamped again by the 9th circuit. Which then sets it up for a constitutional challenge to the SCOTUS, right?

Which (if I’m right) would mean that we need to brace ourselves for some interim bad news.


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  #1688  
Old 07-15-2019, 8:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sbsyncro View Post
If I’m not mistaken, this will get rubber-stamped again by the 9th circuit. Which then sets it up for a constitutional challenge to the SCOTUS, right?

Which (if I’m right) would mean that we need to brace ourselves for some interim bad news.


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Don't count so much on this one being "Rubber Stamped." The make-up of the Ninth has changed considerably in recent month and there have just been two new appointments by President Trump who were confirmed by the Senate.

It's all gonna depend on the luck of the draw for the three judge panel.

But the court still has a liberal majority, even if much narrowed. That always leaves the risk on an en banc rehearing of a favorable decision.
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  #1689  
Old 07-15-2019, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sbsyncro View Post
If I’m not mistaken, this will get rubber-stamped again by the 9th circuit. Which then sets it up for a constitutional challenge to the SCOTUS, right?

Which (if I’m right) would mean that we need to brace ourselves for some interim bad news.


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Depends. This may hit the political cycle around Presidential election time.
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  #1690  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:00 PM
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Can someone explain to me "ER XX" where XX are some numbers in the Ninth Circuit Opening Brief by State of California. I think it references the District Court's decision but no sure how to "look up what the shorthand", so to speak.
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  #1691  
Old 07-16-2019, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BryMan92 View Post
Can someone explain to me "ER XX" where XX are some numbers in the Ninth Circuit Opening Brief by State of California. I think it references the District Court's decision but no sure how to "look up what the shorthand", so to speak.
excerpts of record. Its a bound volume of stuff that was submitted by the appellant of stuff they want the court to look at. Its just not downloading for m right now or I'd post it. I'll post it if my courtlink starts working for the excerpts if not I am sure Chuck will have it on his site in a couple days.
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  #1692  
Old 07-16-2019, 8:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
excerpts of record. Its a bound volume of stuff that was submitted by the appellant of stuff they want the court to look at. Its just not downloading for m right now or I'd post it. I'll post it if my courtlink starts working for the excerpts if not I am sure Chuck will have it on his site in a couple days.
Thanks, Wolf!
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  #1693  
Old 07-17-2019, 6:43 AM
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Opening brief, non-tracker link

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1&d=1563374573" type="application/pdf" width="700" height="900">
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1&d=1563374573">Click here to view or download the file directly.

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  #1694  
Old 07-17-2019, 9:22 AM
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Current 9th circuit judges:

https://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/content...ior_judges.php
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  #1695  
Old 07-17-2019, 10:11 AM
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Default 9th Circuit

"The Ninth Circuit is by far the largest appeals court in the country, with 29 active judgeships. There are two vacancies, one of which is earmarked for Bress, who clerked for the late Justice Antonin Scalia. There also will be two openings after that, with a duo of judges announcing plans to turn over their seats by taking senior status.

Trump’s getting closer to flipping the Ninth Circuit to a majority of judges appointed by Republican presidents. Of the 27 current Ninth Circuit judges, 16 were appointed by Democrats and 11 by Republicans.

Still, the impact of his appointments can be felt in a narrow majority. Additional Republican appointees, for instance, could moderate majority opinions or write dissents that may prompt review from the Supreme Court.

Also, it’s more likely that randomly drawn en banc sittings—a larger group of judges that rehears some cases decided by a three-judge panel of the same court—will be majority Republican. En banc is the last possible stop before the Supreme Court.

Trump, who’s appointed six judges to the Ohio-based Sixth Circuit, already has flipped the Third Circuit, which encompasses New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware."

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law...than-any-other
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  #1696  
Old 07-18-2019, 7:44 AM
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Things are looking up . . . .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.1c3bd479bdea
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  #1697  
Old 07-18-2019, 7:53 AM
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IIRC, wasn't there a "problem" with the supposedly random selection of 9th Circus judges, in that only liberal judges were being selected for en banc decisions? Was that ever resolved?
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  #1698  
Old 07-18-2019, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
IIRC, wasn't there a "problem" with the supposedly random selection of 9th Circus judges, in that only liberal judges were being selected for en banc decisions? Was that ever resolved?
It's quite clear that random panels are not random but there hasn't been much research in that area to find out if they are being politically manipulated or what the implications are for outcomes.
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  #1699  
Old 07-18-2019, 4:55 PM
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SCOTUS Blog: Final Stat Pack for October Term 2018

Quote:
When we examine the Supreme Court’s treatment of cases from lower courts, decisions from cases that came from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit stand out. Out of 14 cases the court voted on that came from the 9th Circuit, the court reversed 12 and only affirmed two, for an 86 percent reversal rate.
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  #1700  
Old 07-18-2019, 5:20 PM
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I think some on the ninth are proud of this horrible record. I'm sure they justify it As truth to power it some other hogwash.
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  #1701  
Old 07-18-2019, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Guninator View Post
I wouldn't go and break out the champagne over the 86% reversal rate just yet. The 86% applies to cases that were granted cert. Peruta comes to mind as a case that couldn't get 4 votes to grant cert. I understand that Gorsuch and Kavanaugh were not on the bench at the time the Peruta petition was voted on, but games of the anti-2A crowd continue (I am referring to attempts to change the law on NYSR&PA to make the case moot).

Net-net, things have improved, but they are nowhere near favorable.
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  #1702  
Old 07-19-2019, 8:41 AM
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Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
I wouldn't go and break out the champagne over the 86% reversal rate just yet. The 86% applies to cases that were granted cert. Peruta comes to mind as a case that couldn't get 4 votes to grant cert. I understand that Gorsuch and Kavanaugh were not on the bench at the time the Peruta petition was voted on, but games of the anti-2A crowd continue (I am referring to attempts to change the law on NYSR&PA to make the case moot).

Net-net, things have improved, but they are nowhere near favorable.
What about my emoji made you think I was popping champagne corks?

The point of my post - and the thread I was replying to - is how bad the Ninth is, not how good SCOTUS is.

2020 is everything.
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  #1703  
Old 07-19-2019, 7:36 PM
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I vote republican but let she honest this state/country is a big mess and I don’t really think republicans are going to save us. Does anyone really expect gun right restoration? I sure as hell don’t.
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  #1704  
Old 07-19-2019, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 17+1 View Post
I vote republican but let she honest this state/country is a big mess and I don’t really think republicans are going to save us. Does anyone really expect gun right restoration? I sure as hell don’t.


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The great pendulum swings; sometimes it just takes a long time on its way back....


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  #1705  
Old 07-23-2019, 8:46 PM
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amicus briefs filed

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...S9p-m99wz29PT4

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...bGn8wOxIu-YLoQ

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...KUXbsyqii_Ax1Q

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...m1r5AlijTHSvz8

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...Jo74-f232XS5HI

https://www.scribd.com/document/4194...bGn8wOxIu-YLoQ


https://www.scribd.com/document/4195...y-Amicus-Brief
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  #1706  
Old 07-23-2019, 9:37 PM
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Thanks Wolf... Looks like we’ve got some reading to do!
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  #1707  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:21 PM
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Thanks Wolf... Looks like we’ve got some reading to do!
Spoiler: “guns are bad and all restrictions on them are good.”
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  #1708  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:45 PM
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The doctors brief is hilarious. It states that LCMs are not arms, yet they can be regulated because they are unusually dangerous weapons.

Stick to medicine, aye wholes

Though doctors kill more people than guns


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  #1709  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:48 PM
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So where are we with this..
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  #1710  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:13 PM
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So where are we with this..


I think post 1682.
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Old 07-24-2019, 5:52 AM
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The LA/Oakland brief is hilarious.

Quote:
There Is No Evidence That LCMs Are Useful to, or Routinely Used by, Law-Abiding Citizens In Self-Defense
So I guess the LEO have to give up their LCMs because they don't use them for self defense and they are only for military use on the battlefield.

I have to wonder if these people actually read what they write?
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  #1712  
Old 07-24-2019, 5:56 AM
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And an amicus from the freedom hating states of:

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, HAWAII, ILLINOIS, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, NEW JERSEY, NEW MEXICO, NEW YORK, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, OREGON, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, VIRGINIA, AND WASHINGTON

I don't think the people of Vermont know what their state is doing.
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Old 07-24-2019, 6:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champu View Post
Spoiler: “guns are bad and all restrictions on them are good.”


Dammit!! You ruined the read for me!!!


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  #1715  
Old 07-24-2019, 7:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceemack View Post
Did any good guys file amicus briefs?
the NRA files their brief in a few weeks and then the good guy briefs will get filed
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Old 07-24-2019, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
the NRA files their brief in a few weeks and then the good guy briefs will get filed
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Here’s the opposition in clear text:

Gifford’s Duncan Brief. The Giffords group wrote the Prop 63 language.

Everytown Duncan Brief

PRIDE FUND TO END GUN VIOLENCE, EQUALITY CALIFORNIA, AND GAYS AGAINST GUNS IN SUPPORT OF APPELLANT

Amicus Brief of Ca Cities. BRIEF OF AMICI CURIAE THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO, THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO, AND THE CITY OF OAKLAND IN SUPPORT OF REVERSAL.

Duncan Amicus O.F. Various States. BRIEF FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, HAWAII, ILLINOIS, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, NEW JERSEY, NEW MEXICO, NEW YORK, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, OREGON, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, VIRGINIA, AND WASHINGTON AS AMICI CURIAE IN SUPPORT OF APPELLANT.

Duncan Brief of Doctors. BRIEF OF AMICI CURIAE CALIFORNIA CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF EMERGENCY PHYSICIANS, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS, CALIFORNIA, & CALIFORNIA ACADEMY OF FAMILY PHYSICIANS ON BEHALF OF APPELLANT.

Brady Duncan Amicus Brief
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  #1717  
Old 07-25-2019, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
The LA/Oakland brief is hilarious.



So I guess the LEO have to give up their LCMs because they don't use them for self defense and they are only for military use on the battlefield.

I have to wonder if these people actually read what they write?
There is no penalty for lies in Amicus briefs (briefs are not submitted under penalty of perjury), so it isn't surprising that claims such as these are made.

There really needs to be a penalty for lies.
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  #1718  
Old 07-25-2019, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
There is no penalty for lies in Amicus briefs (briefs are not submitted under penalty of perjury), so it isn't surprising that claims such as these are made.



There really needs to be a penalty for lies.
The penalty is that our side gets to file our own amicus briefs. We are free to point out their lies. When it can be shown that your 'supporters' need to resort to lies to render said support does it really help or hurt.

Just as with many of these new laws, giving the other side more rope only allows them to hang themselves faster.
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  #1719  
Old 07-25-2019, 2:39 PM
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Where are the pro Amici?
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  #1720  
Old 07-25-2019, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
How does a set of news articles containing eyewitness reports qualify as 'legislative facts'?
Easily: this is the kind of facts they base their laws on. So it makes some sort of perverted sense.
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