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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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Sales tax for Out of state purchase? YES - FFL must collect, buyer must pay
So I bought a gun from an online store out of state. I went to Dros it at my local gun store and they told me I had to pay tax on the gun. I was under the assumption that I did not have to pay sales tax. Also, why would I have to pay sales tax to my FFL if I did not buy the gun from them. I thought only the transfer fee and background was what I needed to pay them. Does anyone know?
It's actually USE TAX. Last edited by Librarian; 02-28-2012 at 10:40 AM.. |
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Search, this has been extensively explained, even in this sticky:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=366781 |
#3
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Believe me. I don't like collecting it any more than you like paying it. I feel just as you said OP. The sale is between you and the seller.
CA BOE/DOJ is forcing dealers to be the bad guys by acting as the tax man and I don't like it at all. But until a dealer/ retailer much bigger that us has a dog in the fight I think we're all hosed.
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WWW.SANTACRUZARMORY.COM |
#4
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How does the FFL determine the amount to tax? I guess there's an invoice or something if you purchased it from an out-of-state Retail gun shop, but what if you purchased the gun USED from a Private Seller, i.e. GunBroker? Is the FFL supposed to somehow determine the value based on street prices?
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#5
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As stated from my post, stickied,
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#7
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so what are the penalties for the FFL who does not collect the tax from an out of state purchase? i am assuming they can lose their license, so i can understand why they would not want to take that chance. pretty chicken shizzit if you ask me on the state of cali to force them to collect.
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#8
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#9
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Just got off the phone with DAS in solana beach and they claim that they must collect tax on out of state purchases from private parties as well as from dealers. They also stated that they have a letter from the BOE that states this. Thoughts?
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attorneys use a specific analytical framework beaten into the spot that used to house our common sense |
#10
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i would like to see that in writing...where the dealer is to collect on private party sales...because i thought that they did not have to collect for private party transactions. i have even been told by my ffl that private party transfers do not apply for the taxes...hmmm.
edit...nm...its all in the sticky |
#11
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Tell them to produce the letter. Take a photo of it and post it here.
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#12
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Quote:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=534146 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...2&d=1328917333
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#13
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Can someone clarify the bolded part of this excerpt:
"On the other hand, in situations where a California FFL dealer completes the registration paperwork for a California private party that is selling a firearm to another California private party and the seller and purchaser agree to the sale of the firearm without any assistance from a California FFL dealer (i.e., the California FFL dealer simply registers the firearm without taking title to it at any time) the California FFL dealer would not be considered the retailer and would not be responsible for the tax. Does this mean that when an out-of-state seller ships the gun to CA thru his FFL, that what technically happens is the out-of-state FFL transfers the title to himself, then transfers it to the receiving FFL in CA, and then to the end buyer? Is this why we are subject to sales tax? I was under the impression that the FFLs were indeed simply acting as middlemen to register/transfer the firearm, nothing more. And for those people that are saying that buying from an Out-of-state private party pays no sales tax, this excerpt seems to contradict that: "when a California FFL dealer completes the registration paperwork and delivers a firearm to a California purchaser for an out-of-state private party seller or an out-of-state retailer not registered with the BOE as a retailer engaged in business in this state, it is presumed that the California FFL dealer is the retailer of the firearm. This is due to the fact that by operation of law, only the California FFL dealer possessing the firearm has power to cause title to the property to transfer to the purchaser. Thus, the California FFL dealer owes sales tax on the total amount of the sales price of the gun, including their service charge, but excluding the Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) fee. The California firearm dealer should generally obtain a copy of the sales invoice from the seller or purchaser to determine the proper amount of tax due." Last edited by Paperchasin; 03-01-2012 at 7:02 PM.. |
#14
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~~~ Ever see the OSH advertisements, "We Pay The Sales Tax". |
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Doesn't it seem weird that u buy a gun in another state and have it shipped to Ca that the state u buy the gun in should get the taxes. Bet it does not work in reverse. Hmmm only is this state wonder why so many are leaving this state.
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#16
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No, that is not the way sales tax works. You are not supposed to collect sales tax on any transactions shipped to another state. That is a federal rule. The idea behind sales tax is the state the items is being used in gets the sales tax.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#18
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ya, show them a receipt, tax should be collected on the price of the items not shipping.
A FFL I used either charged tax on the shipping, rounded 545 to 550 or something. although I was getting 2 firearms, where 25$ was added to the 75$ dros and fee for a total of 100$ including dros i didnt want to make a big stink over 5$
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
#19
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#21
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in another word Cali is ripping off other States.
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#22
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No; as has been pointed out repeatedly, California requires a 'use tax' to be submitted for out of state purchases which would have incurred state sales tax if made within CA. It's been that way for many years.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
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#24
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__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#26
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No, you tell the out of state shop since the item was not delievered in their state, then they cannot collect sales tax and they should adjust your sales receipt and issue a refund.
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www.tenpercentfirearms.com was open from 2005 until 2018. I now own Westside Arms. |
#27
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Going thru the same thing now.
I bought a used pistol from a private seller from out of state. My ffl is charging me the ff: Tax based on full price of the pistol & shipping Dros fee Dealer transfer fee In total i paid 110 In fees for a used $500 pistol. Last edited by Bravo_1; 05-04-2012 at 5:15 PM.. |
#30
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so are all ffl's in cali (sac area) now on board with this sales tax collecting on out of state purchases? does the ffl get audited for this? really would like to know how the state keeps track of all these sales and who, and who should not, be taxed...errrrrr!
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#33
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When total OTD fees are lower, FFLs see a higher volume of transfers, though that doesn't preclude them from profiting off what ammo and guns they do sell. There are plenty of people who don't do the online guns business and still shop local. The BOE is really just prolonging deadweight loss by discouraging people from buying out-of-state guns, let alone going to their LGS if their LGS doesn't happen to carry what they want. If anything, they should just tax the transfer fee, not the value of the goods.
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WTB: Emerson SOCFK-A Last edited by Apec; 06-20-2012 at 9:37 AM.. |
#36
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And if you are a CA-resident, how do you legally do that (other than 03FFLs buying C&R firearms)?
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#37
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Your solution is a simple Federal felony, unless the buyer has an FFL.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#38
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http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep...s-tax-20120915 Update: Looks like the Amazon law affects those companies big enough to have affiliates that advertise for them on in-state websites, which the BOE said created business nexus, similar to being in the state physically. I kind of doubt places like Bud's Gun Shop, Impact Guns or Grabagun have that kind of affiliate network in CA (though Grabagun advertises here), or they may have terminated any such relationships by now to avoid having to collect the tax. http://www.boe.ca.gov/members/msteel...Amazon_tax.pdf
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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. -George Orwell, Animal Farm If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable, what then? -George Orwell, 1984 In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell You're off the edge of the map, mate. Here there be monsters. -Captain Barbossa Last edited by darkwater; 09-20-2012 at 10:11 AM.. Reason: new info |
#39
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It really makes me mad to have to pay all these taxes. Federal 30% CA 9.8% and 8.75% sales tax on the remaining 60% of my money. Then we pay around 30 cents more a gallon of gas then basically all the other states. Ca goes through roughly 16 billion gallons of gas a year and generates 50 cents a gallon so they make 8 billion just on gas tax. Internet sales tax is small potatoes at an estimated 360 million a year that will be generated.
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#40
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Yep. For transfer guns, we have to pay DROS and transfer fees. Tax on top of that...lol, it's effectively being taxed twice.
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WTB: Emerson SOCFK-A |
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