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  #81  
Old 01-14-2019, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kflakes View Post
You're right, I have never read about that. That is crazy. I will have to find that article on the internet and read up on it.
Enjoy!

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1319779
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  #82  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:37 AM
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Thanks, Paladin.
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  #83  
Old 01-29-2019, 3:22 PM
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So the new sheriff has been in town for almost two months now.

Does anyone have any indications about possible changes or news on his CCW issuance?
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  #84  
Old 01-29-2019, 6:43 PM
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So the new sheriff has been in town for almost two months now.

Does anyone have any indications about possible changes or news on his CCW issuance?
IMHO, it was a bit premature to change LACO to light red based only on published policy, which changed wording only slightly, without confirmations of easing of the policy.
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  #85  
Old 01-29-2019, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
IMHO, it was a bit premature to change LACO to light red based only on published policy, which changed wording only slightly, without confirmations of easing of the policy.


No doubt. May have all new campaign promises.
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  #86  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:00 PM
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IMHO, it was a bit premature to change LACO to light red based only on published policy, which changed wording only slightly, without confirmations of easing of the policy.
I agree. I have reviewed this newly published policy at http://www.lasd.org/pdfjs/CCW_Licens...y_Jan_2019.pdf, and I did not notice anything significantly different from the previous policy when I submitted my application under Jim McDonnell. My guess is that the review of the good cause statement and submitted evidence probably has not changed since the last time, which means that it's still practically impossible to meet, but I could be wrong.

Moreover, this article was published today: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...129-story.html. This article has nothing to do with CCW statistics since he took office, but it illustrates one of the several issues he has faced in his young tenure as the new Sheriff. After reading this, I do not think he will do anything too drastic to loosen up the issuance of CCW permits and invite new criticisms/attacks.

I'm going to wait and see for the next few months before considering reapplying. Maybe we will have more information after April/May.
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  #87  
Old 01-30-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
IMHO, it was a bit premature to change LACO to light red based only on published policy, which changed wording only slightly, without confirmations of easing of the policy.
Completely premature...but I kinda get it; Paladin was trying to encourage people to try.
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  #88  
Old 01-30-2019, 12:08 PM
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IMHO, it was a bit premature to change LACO to light red based only on published policy, which changed wording only slightly, without confirmations of easing of the policy.
(1) The map wasn't changed based upon that, but rather based upon AV's statements in media during campaign (see post #791). We assume a LEO will keep his word unless and until we have evidence to the contrary. We do not assume they're lying during an interview by the media. But it is only after being in office for months (up to half a year), that we decide whether to revert a change that was based upon mere campaign promises. His wording was such that yellow and light green were also options. We chose the most conservative: changing only 1 color to light red.

(2) If we just wait until 6 months after they're in office to make a change, a LOT of people who could have been issued won't apply and will be needlessly at risk by being unarmed. Plus, a LOT of people, seeing no change on the map won't even apply and so we'll have less data on which to base our later decisions. We can fall into the "chicken and egg" dilemma: no one who could get issued at light red applies because it still shows dark red. Because they don't apply, we don't have data/posts of light red people getting issued....

(3) We only changed LA Co 1 shade, to light red. As the map itself says, it may be off by 1 shade, but not 2 (IOW, we may show a dark red county as light red, but you can be confident that a yellow county isn't really dark red (barring a recent change in policy/practice).)

What's the worst thing caused by a change to light red? Some people who could get issued at light red, but not dark red, would apply, get denied, and be out some time, money and effort. But their lives are at such risk, I doubt they'd complain in giving it a try.

So, who here has applied since AV took office and got denied???

Last edited by Paladin; 01-30-2019 at 12:14 PM..
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  #89  
Old 01-30-2019, 12:54 PM
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Exclamation WC, Glendora, La Verne, Diamond Bar Facebook groups to get their PDs to issue CCWs

Rather than just bellyaching, anyone lives in West Covina, Gardenia, La Verne, or Diamond Bar should be a member of their FB groups pushing their own PDs to issue CCWs!

West Covina CCW FB group
https://www.facebook.com/CCW4WESTCOVINA/

Glendora CCW FB group
https://www.facebook.com/GlendoraCCW/

La Verne CCW FB group
https://www.facebook.com/laVerneCCW/

Diamond Bar CCW FB group
https://www.facebook.com/DiamondBarCCW/

Best not to wait/count on the federal courts. We "won" Peruta at the 3-judge panel stage 5 YEARS ago, 2014 Feb 13, and yet many of us still can't get CCWs. I encourage you to get active.

Yet again: why aren't YOU LA Co CGNers, or even SoCal CGNers, pushing this? Why is it me, in the SFBA in NorCal, who is doing this??? Do you think they can't use your help? your talents/skills? your money? Or do you not think doing with cities within LA Co what the NRA has done with states within the USA, will help you? You don't have to live in those cities to help them with your phone and/or online with your computer.

ETA: IMO, what you need now are Torrance and Glendale people to step up and start Facebook pages for their cities, to get their PDs' CoPs to readily issue CCWs (ideally SD = GC).

Last edited by Paladin; 01-31-2019 at 11:38 AM..
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  #90  
Old 01-30-2019, 1:05 PM
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So, who here has applied since AV took office and got denied???

I’m curious about this as well
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  #91  
Old 01-30-2019, 1:17 PM
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It is hard to believe anyone young enough and with the ability to leave has not left California already, let alone Los Angeles. Who would live in that Mexician hell hole?
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  #92  
Old 01-30-2019, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
So, who here has applied since AV took office and got denied???
Me.

Originally issued under Block.
Renewed under Baca.
Denied renewal under McDonnell; insufficient good cause.
Denied application under Villanueva; insufficient good cause.
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  #93  
Old 01-30-2019, 4:49 PM
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Me.

Originally issued under Block.
Renewed under Baca.
Denied renewal under McDonnell; insufficient good cause.
Denied application under Villanueva; insufficient good cause.
Really? When did you apply?

What was your GC like (but not so much detail so as to ID you)? Did they say anything re. a change in GC with AV?

Did you get an interview? If so, how'd it go?

When did you get denied?

Are you going to appeal your denial?
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  #94  
Old 01-31-2019, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Really? When did you apply?

What was your GC like (but not so much detail so as to ID you)? Did they say anything re. a change in GC with AV?

Did you get an interview? If so, how'd it go?

When did you get denied?

Are you going to appeal your denial?
There is no GC reveal for an LA County licensee which wouldn't narrow the field so far as to lose anonymity. Denial was boilerplate insufficient good cause.

Early December '18 probably before the publication of his 'revised' process.
No interview, the only interview I ever had was my first renewal with Baca as Sheriff.
The denial came by mail around the 10th of this month.
No plans to appeal.
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  #95  
Old 01-31-2019, 6:27 PM
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West Covina now has 5 pro 2A council members and is replacing the City Manager for one who is also pro 2A. Our CM is responsible for the hire/fire of the CoP. Our council already passed a vote to have our CoP issue CCWs with SD as GC. When the new CM directs our CoP to issue and if he does not, he will bereplaced with a new CoP who is pro 2A.

It's taken a few years but we may be the first city in L.A. county to issue permits to residents useing SD as GC.
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  #96  
Old 01-31-2019, 9:16 PM
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West Covina now has 5 pro 2A council members and is replacing the City Manager for one who is also pro 2A. Our CM is responsible for the hire/fire of the CoP. Our council already passed a vote to have our CoP issue CCWs with SD as GC. When the new CM directs our CoP to issue and if he does not, he will bereplaced with a new CoP who is pro 2A.

It's taken a few years but we may be the first city in L.A. county to issue permits to residents useing SD as GC.
Sounds GREAT!!! I know you guys have been fighting for this for YEARS. I wish you all the best and eagerly look forward to updates/good news.



Be sure to check out the thread I made (in another CGN forum, based on my post #912 above) to help LA County CGNers organize at their city level to do what you guys are doing: pushing your city councils to push their mayors/CM to push their CoPs to readily issue CCWs, ideally with SD = GC.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1507548

Last edited by Paladin; 01-31-2019 at 9:19 PM..
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  #97  
Old 02-01-2019, 9:04 PM
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Default Glendora Concealed Carry

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Originally Posted by gobler View Post
West Covina now has 5 pro 2A council members and is replacing the City Manager for one who is also pro 2A. Our CM is responsible for the hire/fire of the CoP. Our council already passed a vote to have our CoP issue CCWs with SD as GC. When the new CM directs our CoP to issue and if he does not, he will bereplaced with a new CoP who is pro 2A.

It's taken a few years but we may be the first city in L.A. county to issue permits to residents useing SD as GC.
We here in Glendora are in a similar situation as WC having a 3-1 (1 undecided) City Council majority support; a new City Manager (who is also our CoP’s direct report) who came from Riverside & we think supports (but as yet unconfirmed). Our CoP, we know, does not support issuing using SD as GC but the City formally outsourced Glendora PDs issuing responsibility via a MOU to LASD back in 2015. We are now concentrating on getting Council to rescind this MOU ( likely can do) and then attemp to either convince via reason or compel via Council vote/City Manager mandate, our CoP to Issue to a ‘Shall Issue’ standard.

The biggest thing we need now is much more visible Glendora resident support at City Council and Town Hall style meetings. One of which is coming up Tuesday Feb 5. The next regular CC meeting is Feb 12 at 7pm. We need ‘numbers’ of fresh face residents showing up and voicing support for us. The same very few people being seen is now not helping us much any longer. If only 5-10 new people got active, and then could build up some local media momentum from there, I think we’d have a good shot at getting this done.
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  #98  
Old 02-17-2019, 4:53 PM
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How did the meeting go on the 12th?
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  #99  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:20 PM
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Exclamation HELP WANTED

LA Co is by far our most populous county -- 3x the pop of Orange or SD Co. Thus, we should have more people watching this thread than any other.

AV campaigned on issuing more CCWs than McDonnell. My guess is he's using McDonnell's stated Good Cause policy, but unlike McDonnell, will actually issue to people who meet that standard.

If you are, or you know of, someone who is a small business owner (franchise restaurant owner, small grocery store, jeweler, etc who makes cash deposits), real estate agent, property manager who collects rents, preacher making donation deposits, etc. (Good Cause) and they're law-abiding (Good Moral Character), and they want a CCW, they should apply to find out if they pass the GC hurdle.

Here's some advice that could help them with the application process:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924

At worst, they'll get denied and be out $10.00 (see p.3 at: http://lasd.org/pdfjs/CCW_Licensing_Policy_Jan_2019.pdf)

At best, they'll get approved and have to get a Livescan done and take training to get a CCW issued. Either way, have them post their experience after they're through with the process.

Last edited by Paladin; 03-08-2019 at 4:35 PM..
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  #100  
Old 03-08-2019, 1:52 PM
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Well, here in West Covina we've had a weird event happen. We just had our city manager and two council members resign over a proposal on building a hotel in an area that really can't support one. They we're pissed that monies were "heavily greasing the wheels" and will put WC in even greater debt.

So, I wonder if LASD will use permanent disabilities as good cause??
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  #101  
Old 03-08-2019, 3:00 PM
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Well, here in West Covina we've had a weird event happen. We just had our city manager and two council members resign over a proposal on building a hotel in an area that really can't support one. They we're pissed that monies were "heavily greasing the wheels" and will put WC in even greater debt.
Your brand new CM is gone?!!

Sorry to hear about the distracting drama....

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Originally Posted by gobler View Post
So, I wonder if LASD will use permanent disabilities as good cause??
We honestly don't know at this point. Being unable to "fight or flight" definitely makes you particularly vulnerable and maybe even a target. Of course, you'll need a MD/DO to sign off on you having such a disability.

If I were you I'd go thru both the LASD materials (http://lasd.org/ccw_info.html), and my CoCoCo advice (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924) and try to work up my best GC reasons and apply. You may get issued and it will only cost you, if I'm reading their materials right, $10 if you get denied.

If you don't have $10 to waste to find out if you can get issued, that a bigger problem than not having a CCW....

If you do apply, please PM me with your details as you go through the process. ALL correspondence kept in STRICT confidence and not posted/shared without your PRIOR approval.

I'd say give it a shot. Even if we win at SCOTUS in a year, CA9 will drag their heels, they'll give Sacto/IAs plenty of time to ramp up and comply -- could be another 2 or 3 years....

Why wait???

Last edited by Paladin; 03-08-2019 at 4:36 PM..
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  #102  
Old 03-08-2019, 4:04 PM
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Your brand new CM is gone?!!



Sorry to hear about the distracting drama....



We honestly don't know at this point. Being unable to "fight or flight" definitely makes you particularly vulnerable and maybe even a target. Of course, you'll need a MD/DO to sign off on you having such a disability.



If I were you I'd go thru both the LASD materials (http://lasd.org/ccw_info.html), and my CoCoCo advice (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924) and try to work up my best GC reasons and apply. You may get issued and it will only cost you, if I'm reading their materials right, $10 if you get denied.



If you don't have $10 to waste to find out if you can get issued, that a bigger problem than not having a CCW....



If you do apply, please PM me with your details as you go through the process. ALL correspondence kept in STRICT confidence and not posted/shared without your PRIOR approval.



I'd say give it a shot. Even if we win at SCOTUS in a year, CA9 will drag their heels, they'll give Sacto/IAs plenty of time to ramp up and comply -- could be another 2 or 3 years....



Why wait???
Going to call for CCW package. I'll post updates here as things develop.
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  #103  
Old 03-08-2019, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Your brand new CM is gone?!!

Sorry to hear about the distracting drama....

We honestly don't know at this point. Being unable to "fight or flight" definitely makes you particularly vulnerable and maybe even a target. Of course, you'll need a MD/DO to sign off on you having such a disability.

If I were you I'd go thru both the LASD materials (http://lasd.org/ccw_info.html), and my CoCoCo advice (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924) and try to work up my best GC reasons and apply. You may get issued and it will only cost you, if I'm reading their materials right, $10 if you get denied.

If you don't have $10 to waste to find out if you can get issued, that a bigger problem than not having a CCW....

If you do apply, please PM me with your details as you go through the process. ALL correspondence kept in STRICT confidence and not posted/shared without your PRIOR approval.

I'd say give it a shot. Even if we win at SCOTUS in a year, CA9 will drag their heels, they'll give Sacto/IAs plenty of time to ramp up and comply -- could be another 2 or 3 years....

Why wait???
I am planning to give it another try pretty soon, just need to find time for it. Things have been incredibly hectic with work.

If you do have the time, I would actually appreciate all the critiques on my good cause statement to help prepare the best application possible. I think a fresh set of eyes will be very helpful. I do not mind sharing my good cause statement with you, Paladin. Since you are experienced on this, if you know the content of my good cause statement and then we find out the result, both of us will have a better idea of what works and what does not work, and that in turn may help other potential applicants. I will PM you with my email address shortly.
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  #104  
Old 03-09-2019, 4:57 AM
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I am planning to give it another try pretty soon, just need to find time for it. Things have been incredibly hectic with work.

If you do have the time, I would actually appreciate all the critiques on my good cause statement to help prepare the best application possible. I think a fresh set of eyes will be very helpful. I do not mind sharing my good cause statement with you, Paladin. Since you are experienced on this, if you know the content of my good cause statement and then we find out the result, both of us will have a better idea of what works and what does not work, and that in turn may help other potential applicants. I will PM you with my email address shortly.
If you want a CCW than move. LA County is a grade A S+@# hole anyway. Please don't say it can't be done. If you want a CCW badly enough than make it happen. If not, go without. Plain and simple. carry on!
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Old 03-09-2019, 5:07 AM
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Pretty sure I didn't say it can't be done. That's why I am going to try again. Plain and simple.
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:19 AM
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Pretty sure I didn't say it can't be done. That's why I am going to try again. Plain and simple.
I was referring to moving out of LA County. Not obtaining a CCW in that toilet of a county. My apolgies for not being more clear!
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  #107  
Old 03-09-2019, 8:49 AM
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I am planning to give it another try pretty soon, just need to find time for it. Things have been incredibly hectic with work.
Sounds good, understand re. work.

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If you do have the time, I would actually appreciate all the critiques on my good cause statement to help prepare the best application possible. I think a fresh set of eyes will be very helpful. I do not mind sharing my good cause statement with you, Paladin. Since you are experienced on this, if you know the content of my good cause statement and then we find out the result, both of us will have a better idea of what works and what does not work, and that in turn may help other potential applicants. I will PM you with my email address shortly.


I prefer to do "gun stuff" via CGN PMs to keep "fun stuff" from distracting me during the day.
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  #108  
Old 04-08-2019, 1:31 AM
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A sheriff deputy told me the CCW license will be much easier to get in about 6 months or so. We'll see.
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Old 04-08-2019, 8:49 AM
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A sheriff deputy told me the CCW license will be much easier to get in about 6 months or so. We'll see.
When did you hear this?

Hopefully, it will turn out to be true. I try to check up on all non-green counties' CCW webpages every 6 months (Su & Christmas holidays).

Like it or not, CCWs are a low priority for CLEOs. Dealing with Cop's unions, politicians (mayors, city council, Board of Sups), courts, budgets, overcrowded jails, media, "community activists", etc are all more important and urgent to them (but not to us).
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  #110  
Old 04-08-2019, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Weyoun View Post
A sheriff deputy told me the CCW license will be much easier to get in about 6 months or so. We'll see.
Sorry if I seem skeptical. But I've been hearing this and similar claims since 1971.
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  #111  
Old 04-08-2019, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Sorry if I seem skeptical. But I've been hearing this and similar claims since 1971.
Mark your calendar on Oct 1 and when that rolls around, make a post reminding us all of their post/prediction.

Personally, I'll give AV until Dec 31, even though I hope "the sooner the better."

My guess is if there's any positive change, it will be to fulfill AV's campaign promise, not out of fear of us winning a Carry Case. But I'll take any win any way I can get it!

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  #112  
Old 04-14-2019, 12:46 PM
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Sorry if I seem skeptical. But I've been hearing this and similar claims since 1971.
You have good cause to be skeptical. But don't forget, folks never though they'd see the day when OC, San Diego, Stanislaus, Solano and Sonoma counties would liberalize issuance. I even remember when Sacto was dark red before flipping to dark green (I think in summer 2010). OC flipped to dark green in 2014 Feb with our Peruta 3-judge panel win (accepted SD = GC), and then back to light green with our en banc loss in 2016 June (required minimal GC and proof of it). Gore liberalized issuance in San Diego Co roughly in fall 2017, going from light red to light green.

This old, 2010 map isn't quite accurate -- San Mateo Co never was light green, it was yellow for awhile at best. 2010 was a year of big improvements due to Heller (2008) and McDonald (2010) and the 2010 sheriffs' elections. San Joaquin flipped from light red to light green, San Benito flipped from dark red to dark green, Stanislaus flipped from yellow to dark green, Glenn, Lake, and Colusa all went from light green to dark green. So imagine what the 2009 map would have looked like.

Now, compare that mental image of the 2009 map to the current map (Spring 2019) above. I'd guess (I'm not going to track down the old numbers, baggss may have them) we've gone from 40-60,000 CCWs in 2009 to >115,000 currently -- roughly double!


Last edited by Paladin; 04-14-2019 at 3:54 PM..
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  #113  
Old 04-14-2019, 2:05 PM
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Animated GIF showing 2009, 2010 (with corrections), 2015 and Spring 2019. I recreated the 2009, 2010 & 2015 maps in the current template to make the comparison easier.

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Last edited by baggss; 04-14-2019 at 10:09 PM..
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  #114  
Old 04-17-2019, 1:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Sounds good, understand re. work.



I prefer to do "gun stuff" via CGN PMs to keep "fun stuff" from distracting me during the day.

Paladin, I tried to send you a private message, but it looks like your inbox is full. Let me know when you have some space and I will resend.

Thanks!
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  #115  
Old 04-20-2019, 9:12 AM
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STOP THE PRESSES!!!

On the LASD's CCW webpage (http://lasd.org/ccw_info.html), the linked "CCW Policy" .pdf (http://lasd.org/pdfjs/CCW_Licensing_...April_2019.pdf) has a new revision date of 2019 April 16

Did anyone save a copy of the previous version to run a comparison?

Just eyeballing it, I see this document still contains the LIE about Good Cause:

Quote:
According to Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department policy (5-09/380.10) and the California Supreme Court (CBS, Inc. v. Block, (1986) 42 Cal.3d 646), good cause shall exist only if there is convincing evidence of a clear and present danger to life, or of great bodily harm to the applicant, his spouse, or dependent child, which cannot be adequately dealt with by existing law enforcement resources, and which danger cannot be reasonably avoided by alternative measures, and which danger would be significantly mitigated by the applicant’s carrying of a concealed firearm.
As ANYONE can see, CBS v. Block was merely quoting the claims of LASD re. GC, not stating that was the legal requirement -- either by statute or case law -- for GC. See the case at: https://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/...-v-block-28477 The CA Sup Ct did NOT state that is the definition of GC, only that that is what LASD was using. Not only that, that quote is NOT even found in the majority opinion, but in the dissent by Mosk! (Scroll down to Mosk's dissent and about a dozen paragraphs into it (~1/2 way down the entire document) and you'll find it.)

If anyone has a point of contact with either the County Counsel or Sheriff's Dept's CCW Unit, they should alert them to this public misrepresentation of the law by the sheriff's department.

Last edited by Paladin; 04-20-2019 at 9:15 AM..
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  #116  
Old 04-28-2019, 5:07 PM
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[QUOTE=Paladin;22919624]STOP THE PRESSES!!!

On the LASD's CCW webpage (http://lasd.org/ccw_info.html), the linked "CCW Policy" .pdf (http://lasd.org/pdfjs/CCW_Licensing_...April_2019.pdf) has a new revision date of 2019 April 16

Did anyone save a copy of the previous version to run a comparison?

I have a copy of the previous version of the policy under Jim McDonnell when I applied over a year ago. It's attached here.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ConcealedWeaponLicensePolicy.pdf (4.88 MB, 28 views)
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  #117  
Old 06-04-2019, 10:15 PM
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So nobody has anything new on this issue? AV is not in good favor with his reinstatement of fired deputies. He needs to perceive that granting CCWs would garner support from the community he wouldn't otherwise have.
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  #118  
Old 06-04-2019, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recoil View Post
So nobody has anything new on this issue? AV is not in good favor with his reinstatement of fired deputies. He needs to perceive that granting CCWs would garner support from the community he wouldn't otherwise have.


It seems that we are all waiting to see what happens, including myself. I regularly monitor to see if there is any new information, but I have not seen anything.

Like you said, AV has been having his own turmoil and controversies since he took office. I would assume that he is setting aside CCW issue to avoid any further “negative” attention on him. I cannot imagine the kind of spotlight he will be getting if he starts loosening up CCWs in LA County. It’s unfortunate for the rest of us.

If you scroll up, there was one person who applied shortly after AV took office and was denied. It looks like we are still in the same, old position, just different person in charge. Sigh.

I have my application ready to be filed at a moment’s notice if it looks like the wind is changing in our favor. But as of now, it does not look like anything has changed. So, more waiting.
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  #119  
Old 06-05-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recoil View Post
So nobody has anything new on this issue?
The latest was this post from April 8th:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyoun View Post
A sheriff deputy told me the CCW license will be much easier to get in about 6 months or so. We'll see.
Until something changes, just EDC pepper spray, obey the 4-S Rule and enjoy life!

ETA: The 4-S Rule: (1) avoid being around Stupid people, (2) avoid doing Stupid things, (3) avoid going to Stupid places and (4) avoid being out at Stupid times.

Last edited by Paladin; 06-05-2019 at 10:25 PM..
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  #120  
Old 06-05-2019, 6:50 PM
splithoof splithoof is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyoun View Post
A sheriff deputy told me the CCW license will be much easier to get in about 6 months or so. We'll see.
How hard was he choking on his free donuts & coffee when he said that?
The editorial board of the Los Angeles Times will have to agree to it first, and then ALADS, then the bearded monkeys of the Board of Sup's. Not much hope in any of that bunch, status quo.
Please let me be wrong, but after watching the folks down in L.A. get brushed aside for eons, it's hard to believe the lying lips of policing politicians.
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