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  #1  
Old 11-16-2017, 5:31 PM
8pack 8pack is offline
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Default Lead ammo when no lead free ammo available?

I have a couple guns that do not have any lead free solutions so I called the F&G but they havenít responded to me yet. Has anyone else ran into this problem and if so were you able to get an answer? If I donít hear from them I will call again because they state that you will get a call back in 48 hours.
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Old 11-16-2017, 5:47 PM
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basically you are screwed. not being rude but i think its just our tuff luck. it seems like there was something mentioned in the new law about this situation but im guessin they will pass the buck and leave us hangin.
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Old 11-16-2017, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HOGDOG1955 View Post
basically you are screwed. not being rude but i think its just our tuff luck. it seems like there was something mentioned in the new law about this situation but im guessin they will pass the buck and leave us hangin.
I’m kind of thinking that but I read the law and it appears there might be a opening, depending on who is interpreting it

Last edited by 8pack; 11-16-2017 at 6:14 PM..
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2017, 6:17 PM
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Reload, best option. F Moonbeam.
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Old 11-16-2017, 6:21 PM
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No, we're screwed. I've got several guns I won't be able to hunt with anymore.
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Old 11-16-2017, 6:30 PM
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No, we're screwed. I've got several guns I won't be able to hunt with anymore.
Name one.
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Old 11-16-2017, 6:39 PM
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Name one.
I know the quote was for someone else. I can reload a solution for my 35 Remington because it is not tube fed but there is no solution for my 50AE.
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Old 11-16-2017, 6:41 PM
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I know the quote was for someone else. I can reload a solution for my 35 Remington because it is not tube fed but there is no solution for my 50AE.
https://www.midwayusa.com/50-action-express/br?cid=8284 Buy four boxes of loaded ammo and be done with it. All the brass you need. You can still get brass and bullets.
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Old 11-16-2017, 6:49 PM
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https://www.midwayusa.com/50-action-express/br?cid=8284 Buy four boxes of loaded ammo and be done with it. All the brass you need. You can still get brass and bullets.
There are no lead free bullets available for the 50AE. I have a bunch of brass and dies already.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2017, 11:37 PM
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Old 11-17-2017, 7:13 AM
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Name one.
500 linebaugh revolver. No 510 caliber lead free bullets except for 50 BMG. The safari stuff is too deep in the shank too to fit in the case.
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Old 11-17-2017, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 8pack View Post
There are no lead free bullets available for the 50AE. I have a bunch of brass and dies already.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/xpb/

I'll bet the 275 could be made to work. That would be my answer if i was a DFG.

I DID ask this question to DFG, and I got an answer. They told me to use 50 BMG bullets. I have not followed up yet. Mostly because the original email, I specifically said 50 BMG bullets will not fit the cylinder.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2017, 7:19 AM
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Let me know how to load 17 mach 2
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Old 11-17-2017, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Name one.
My problem is barrel twist. My .25wssm has a 1 in 10 twist. Not fast enough for 120 grain copper. Sure I can go to 100 grain but it's lighter than I like to shoot deer with and will NOT hold up long range which is what I got the rifle for.

Open to any real solutions.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:21 AM
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Or 5.45

Twist is an issue as well. My 1:14 223 varmint rig is completely useless with any lead free bullets. It goes from 5/8" groups with my favorite load, to 8 inch groups at a hundred with ever lead free bullet I've tried.

Which makes it unhuntable, unless one is either unethical or dumb.
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 8pack View Post
Iím kind of thinking that but I read the law and it appears there might be a opening, depending on who is interpreting it
The only exception written into the law has to do with a federal prohibition of armor piercing ammunition. There is no exception for not being available from the manufacturers. There is no doubt some of us will not be able to use certain weapons for hunting in California due to the ban. If you don't reload, you might consider starting. The biggest hit is going to be 22lr, as no reliable alternative has been developed yet.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:32 AM
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http://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/xpb/

I'll bet the 275 could be made to work. That would be my answer if i was a DFG.

I DID ask this question to DFG, and I got an answer. They told me to use 50 BMG bullets. I have not followed up yet. Mostly because the original email, I specifically said 50 BMG bullets will not fit the cylinder.
Barnes XPB bullets will only work in revolver because of the ogive and will not feed in semi auto pistols. It is stated directly on Barnes website.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
My problem is barrel twist. My .25wssm has a 1 in 10 twist. Not fast enough for 120 grain copper. Sure I can go to 100 grain but it's lighter than I like to shoot deer with and will NOT hold up long range which is what I got the rifle for.

Open to any real solutions.
The solution is to use the 80 grain TTSX or the 90 grain GMX and change your expectation of bullet performance when using copper versus traditional bullets. In that 25 WSSM you can move that 80 grain TTSX at right around 3500 fps for a point blank range of nearly 350 yards. An 80 grain copper bullet will perform and penetrate similarly to a 100 grain partition. That 100 grain copper bullet will perform and penetrate similarly to a 130 grain partition.

Of course none of this matters since the question is "do you HAVE lead free options for your 25 WSSM" and NOT "do you LIKE your options in lead free 25 WSSM".

With any luck I'll be shooting pigs with those 80 grain TTSX bullets sometime in the future.
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Last edited by NapalmCheese; 11-17-2017 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:04 PM
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I can shoot a 3.5 inch group at 500 meters with the 120 grain lead bullets. If 100 grain copper will even make it that far I'm sure the drop will be unacceptable. The .25wssm was my long distance rifle.
Back to the drawing board.
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Old 11-17-2017, 1:07 PM
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I can shoot a 3.5 inch group at 500 meters with the 120 grain lead bullets. If 100 grain copper will even make it that far I'm sure the drop will be unacceptable. The .25wssm was my long distance rifle.
Back to the drawing board.
Yeah, you should just give up on that rifle.

A 100 grain TTSX started at 3200 fps will only be moving 2300 fps at 500 yards with 32 inches of drop. Might as well just spit at the animal at that point compared to a 120 NPT started at 3000 fps which drops 36 inches at 500 yards and carries 2200 fps...
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Old 11-17-2017, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
I can shoot a 3.5 inch group at 500 meters with the 120 grain lead bullets. If 100 grain copper will even make it that far I'm sure the drop will be unacceptable. The .25wssm was my long distance rifle.
Back to the drawing board.
The 100grainers bleed off tons of speed and energy quickly as compared to 110,115/117 and 120ís from my recent experience you better know your dope precisely from 300-500 yards as thatís where the 100 trainers start to peter out.
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Old 11-17-2017, 2:42 PM
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The 100grainers bleed off tons of speed and energy quickly as compared to 110,115/117 and 120ís from my recent experience you better know your dope precisely from 300-500 yards as thatís where the 100 trainers start to peter out.
Yep!
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Old 11-17-2017, 3:34 PM
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Open to any real solutions.


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Old 11-17-2017, 3:57 PM
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Name one.
25-20
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38-55
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Old 11-17-2017, 4:39 PM
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It may come to that.
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Old 11-17-2017, 4:45 PM
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I was going to suggest give the barnes MRX a try because the tungsten portion would provide for a heavier bullet but when i went looking for a link it looks like it may have been discontinued.

There's also some question of whether tungsten is toxic itself.
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Old 11-17-2017, 4:58 PM
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I was going to suggest give the barnes MRX a try because the tungsten portion would provide for a heavier bullet but when i went looking for a link it looks like it may have been discontinued.

There's also some question of whether tungsten is toxic itself.
They dropped those some time ago in favor for the LRX bullets which are, for the most part, just mono-metal VLD style bullets. Though Barnes claims they open up more readily and at lower velocities compared to the TSX or TTSX. From my own entirely non-scientific testing: A 110 TTSX starting at 3200 fps and a 145 LRX starting at 2650 both look to open up about the same after being dug out of a berm at 200 yards.
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Old 11-18-2017, 6:05 AM
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No one has 17hm2 ntx lead free.Back ordered everywhere. I wonder if hornaday discontinued
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Old 11-18-2017, 7:00 PM
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No one has 17hm2 ntx lead free.Back ordered everywhere. I wonder if hornaday discontinued
I was lucky and got some a couple years back, still have not used any until I really need to
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Name one.
Just because you can reload lead-free, doesn't mean it will shoot well enough to make it useful in a hunting situation, so the OP has a legitimate complaint/concern.

I tried numerous lead-free bullets and loads for my .218 Bees and none of them grouped well enough to consistently hit a ground squirrel at 75 yards (let alone 100).

Reloading isn't always the answer to the lead-free cluster-f laws!

Eric
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:26 PM
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I was lucky and got some a couple years back, still have not used any until I really need to
Pay attention to the necks. It has been proven that the annealed necks of .17 caliber rimfire rounds can crack after a handful of years, even while being stored properly. The lead-free Mach2 ammo came out at the end of 2011, so they are hitting that critical point.

Eric
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Old 11-19-2017, 5:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric Mayer View Post
Just because you can reload lead-free, doesn't mean it will shoot well enough to make it useful in a hunting situation, so the OP has a legitimate complaint/concern.

I tried numerous lead-free bullets and loads for my .218 Bees and none of them grouped well enough to consistently hit a ground squirrel at 75 yards (let alone 100).

Reloading isn't always the answer to the lead-free cluster-f laws!

Eric
I never said always, I said best. A lot of you guys shooting old levers need to look into casting molds and see if something works for you to get around the dumb ammo low. I'll shoot cast with a gas check before I'll stick a gun into the safe for eternity. Lead free is going to leave a lot of us with range only guns. Especially old slow rounds.

I don't think F and W gives a flip about what we can and cannot shoot honestly. They'll for sure write you up for it though.

Low speed, round nose copper is going to be a pretty crappy hunting bullet if and when they come out with one. I'd pick up the phone and call places like Hornady and see if my caliber is in the works. That's a double whammy, no copper AND the stupid ammo law.

Here might be another option.http://www.corbins.com/bullets.htm#solid

Last edited by AGGRO; 11-19-2017 at 5:43 AM..
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Old 11-19-2017, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Mayer View Post
Just because you can reload lead-free, doesn't mean it will shoot well enough to make it useful in a hunting situation, so the OP has a legitimate complaint/concern.

I tried numerous lead-free bullets and loads for my .218 Bees and none of them grouped well enough to consistently hit a ground squirrel at 75 yards (let alone 100).

Reloading isn't always the answer to the lead-free cluster-f laws!

Eric
Actually, it is always the answer. From legal perspective. If one lead free bullet can be loaded and fired, even if it’s a 500 S&W bullet, then every .500 caliber gun is now affected by the law, whether 50ae or .500 caliber super-magnum.

They won’t care that a 45 cal ITX roundball is so pristine after firing you can load and shoot it again. That’s just not relevant for legal compliance.

And that will be their answer to your inquiry if you send them a note.
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  #34  
Old 11-19-2017, 5:07 PM
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If it doesn't group, I'm not shooting it. You can't get around the law for lack of access to lead-free ammo, or components that don't work well.

Quote:
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No, we're screwed. I've got several guns I won't be able to hunt with anymore.
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Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Name one.
These are the posts I was replying to and my point stands.

By the way. I live in Idaho now, so this does not affect me anymore (this was one of the reasons I left). But, it affects hunters in CA and that bugs the crap out of me, so I will continue to complain and voice factual arguments about this political move (it has nothing to do with the environment).

Eric
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Old 11-20-2017, 8:39 AM
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I never said always, I said best. A lot of you guys shooting old levers need to look into casting molds and see if something works for you to get around the dumb ammo low. I'll shoot cast with a gas check before I'll stick a gun into the safe for eternity. Lead free is going to leave a lot of us with range only guns. Especially old slow rounds.

I don't think F and W gives a flip about what we can and cannot shoot honestly. They'll for sure write you up for it though.

Low speed, round nose copper is going to be a pretty crappy hunting bullet if and when they come out with one. I'd pick up the phone and call places like Hornady and see if my caliber is in the works. That's a double whammy, no copper AND the stupid ammo law.

Here might be another option.http://www.corbins.com/bullets.htm#solid
I believe Hornady now offers lead-free bullets in their "Leverelution" line.
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  #36  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:00 PM
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https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=330
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:04 PM
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I believe Hornady now offers lead-free bullets in their "Leverelution" line.
Yes, they do and it's a pretty slick little bullet. We need to think outside the box and not just get mad about what is happening in CA. I'm not going to quit hunting because of stupid CA libtard restrictions.



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...free-box-of-20
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:11 PM
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https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=166
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:12 PM
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https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...uct_list&c=127
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:31 PM
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I think that's a lead load. It doesn't say lead free or non-toxic on the link.
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