"Broke Back Mountaiain Part 2 DRAMA"

[DeviLDoc8483]

Thanks! ke6guj

[USN CHIEF]

Good Job DevilDoc8483 Still can't stop laughing watching him back up to his unit.

[viras]

Hey ENTHUSIAST: I think I found the BLM Maps - http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/info/iac/Northern_Map.html

They're $4.00 a piece - I'm not sure whether or not our spot falls within San Diego or El Cajon coz the pics are so tiny.

DevilDoc8483 - EXCELLENT video! Classic!

[FMJBT]

Originally Posted by USN CHIEF

Good Job DevilDoc8483 Still can't stop laughing watching him back up to his unit.

I had not seen that till now either, what a girly man. Just following training and protocol I suppose, but still: FAIL. Next time we should all just gather closely around him when he gets out of the truck

[DVLDOC]

NICE VIDEO, RON!

[kittycat]

I just read the main post. LOL! I'm so bummed we missed it. Soooo when's the next one? Maybe you'll get the same BP guy.

[AKman]

Does anyone have coordinates for the site. I have a BLM map database embedded in some GIS software. I hunt a few small BLM parcels and always like to show the neighboring landowners that try to BS us that we know we are on public land.

[RossRinSD]

Originally Posted by Whiskey_Sauer

Okay, you guys keep making light of this, I get it. But do you not see why he would be really nervous in this situation?

And he should be nervous, wouldn't anybody who was in his shoes.

But, we weren't in his shoes.

[Turbinator]

Originally Posted by Whiskey_Sauer

Okay, you guys keep making light of this, I get it. But do you not see why he would be really nervous in this situation?

I thought about it, and I agree, he should be nervous... just like when a Calgunner is accosted by a group of cops, it would only be natural to be nervous even if no crime were being committed.

This BP guy knows that if things didn't go his way, he'd be toast.

Turby

[FMJBT]

Originally Posted by AKman

Does anyone have coordinates for the site. I have a BLM map database embedded in some GIS software. I hunt a few small BLM parcels and always like to show the neighboring landowners that try to BS us that we know we are on public land.

PM sent. Thanks for the help.

[USN CHIEF]

Originally Posted by Whiskey_Sauer

Okay, you guys keep making light of this, I get it. But do you not see why he would be really nervous in this situation?

I know why he was really nervous, because he did not know WTF he was talking about. The Idiot approached us like we were criminals right off the back getting out his unit and unstrapping the safety on his holster and keeping his gun on the butt of his gun. Why did the idiot approach us by himself if he felt threatened when there were like 4 other units in the vicinity? He maybe taught that he was going to be able to scare us off or something. This guy was a total tool and it was proven he was a total tool later on when the supervisor arrived along with 4 other BP agents. While they were talking to us and shooting the ****, this same idiot was over by the side looking over us like we were ****ing criminals while the rest of the BP agents were laughing and sharing stories with us. I still don't think is too late to send a copy of the video over to BP HQ and make a complaint.

[Prc329]

Chief is right, he could have handled the situation a lot different. It is almost like he wanted to provoke a situation. Good thing everyone there was a responsible adult and Chief being level headed as he is.

[AKman]

Originally Posted by FMJBT

PM sent. Thanks for the help.

Responded to PM. Close, but not quite there. Also, Otay Mountain Truck Trail crosses your line of fire about 800 yards downrange, tucked behind a small hill. If BP was on that trail approaching from the west, you would have been shooting over their heads.

If I were an illegal alien, there is a great crossing point where Mex Hwy 2 crosses a dry stream bed a couple hundred yards from the border, then crosses Otay Mountain Truck Trail with an easy walk to Hwy 94. Given the close proximity to the eastern edge of Tijuana, I can see why BP works the area pretty hard.

[mike22ca]

That was fkin hillarious how he walked back to his truck LOL

[ENTHUSIAST]

I contacted the BLM office in Palm Springs to speak to a "Reality Specialist" that is DIRECTLY in charge of the region in question as directed by the BLM El Centro office.

I infomed BLM PS that I was told that there had been changes made to the BLM land status in that region by San Diego and told that it was NO LONGER OK to do Target Shooting there and asked to leave.

And was calling to verify if in fact any such changes had been made and to obtain a CURRENT map so as to be clear of what areas were still OK and what areas that would have been OK on an older map have now been closed for target shooting.

I was told that the ONLY map that they had was from 1997 and that it was the "OFFICIAL" BLM Map he asked where I heard about about these "changes" in BLM Land from a Ranger, National Forestry Service Personel, Sheriffs...? NO none of the above actually it was BORDER PATROL *LONG AKWARD PAUSE* I asked if BP was more up to speed on the area than BLM since they "worked in the area" and he said that "ONLY BLM can authorize a closure or change in BLM status of a specific area".

He said that he was "not aware of any changes in that area" and directed me to speak to the BLM Chief Area Ranger who would know if ANY such changes could of been made.

I also asked if the BP had the authority to make us stop shooting all together just under the excuse of conducting activities in the general "area" which I again explained left a lot open to how much space the BP were using to justify their "area".

I again informed him that ILLEGALS travel across the entire span of the southern hemisphere of the STATE does that mean that BP has the authority to close the whole BLM "area" from here to AZ for the entire day just because they seen an ILLEGAL!?!

He then said I should speak to the BLM LE Ranger as this is more of a LE question than a BLM question.

Both the BLM Chief Area Ranger (760) and the BLM LE Ranger (619) were out of the office, I will try again tomorrow.

Viras: I ordered the Official Map from them it was the EL CAJON one. I should receive it on Tues. and I will scan and post.

-ENTHUSIAST

[USN CHIEF]

Great freaking job Enthusiast, keep on searching and keep us posted bro.

[FMJBT]

Originally Posted by AKman

Responded to PM. Close, but not quite there. Also, Otay Mountain Truck Trail crosses your line of fire about 800 yards downrange, tucked behind a small hill. If BP was on that trail approaching from the west, you would have been shooting over their heads.

Thanks for the maps AKman. Looks like we are just a few hundred yards outside of BLM land at the current location The good news however, is that the Lincoln site a little further south sits right on the edge of BLM land, and the field of fire is squarely within BLM borders. Now all we have to do is go and recover all of our plates and reset them at the new location....

[USN CHIEF]

Originally Posted by FMJBT

Thanks for the maps AKman. Looks like we are just a few hundred yards outside of BLM land at the current location The good news however, is that the Lincoln site a little further south sits right on the edge of BLM land, and the field of fire is squarely within BLM borders. Now all we have to do is go and recover all of our plates and reset them at the new location....

I am ready to go reset targets over by the Lincoln, just say when FMBJBT

[FMJBT]

Map provided by AKman:



I'm interested to see how this compares with the map that Enthusiast has on order. As it is, I think we will have to relocate further south to our alternate spot in order to stay within BLM boundaries. We should have copies of this map, as well as a GPS on hand for the next shoot in case we have more problems with BP.

[FMJBT]

Originally Posted by USN CHIEF

I am ready to go reset targets over by the Lincoln, just say when FMBJBT

We need to find a better way of anchoring them into the ground first, along with getting some slightly thinner steel for the longer range targets. In order to get decent calibration for our rifles, we really should have plates set up every hundred yards...... Having said that though, I would be perfectly happy with just setting up plates at even numbered distances too That hike was not fun last week.

[USN CHIEF]

Originally Posted by FMJBT

We need to find a better way of anchoring them into the ground first, along with getting some slightly thinner steel for the longer range targets. In order to get decent calibration for our rifles, we really should have plates set up every hundred yards...... Having said that though, I would be perfectly happy with just setting up plates at even numbered distances too That hike was not fun last week.

No it was no fun and I am just now recuperating from that hike. I am sure that we can all come together as a group and go plant the targets as a group one of these days. I really did not do a lot of shooting that day and my finger is itching.

[ProlificARProspect]

Let me know guys I will definitely go, If Im invited

[DeviLDoc8483]

Great Job ENTHUSIAST! I look forward to seeing this map. I cant wait for BBM3, or whatever the next shoot is going to be called. DevilDog, DvlDoc & I are working on some new targets.

Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST

I contacted the BLM office in Palm Springs to speak to a "Reality Specialist" that is DIRECTLY in charge of the region in question as directed by the BLM El Centro office.

I infomed BLM PS that I was told that there had been changes made to the BLM land status in that region by San Diego and told that it was NO LONGER OK to do Target Shooting there and asked to leave.

And was calling to verify if in fact any such changes had been made and to obtain a CURRENT map so as to be clear of what areas were still OK and what areas that would have been OK on an older map have now been closed for target shooting.

I was told that the ONLY map that they had was from 1997 and that it was the "OFFICIAL" BLM Map he asked where I heard about about these "changes" in BLM Land from a Ranger, National Forestry Service Personel, Sheriffs...? NO none of the above actually it was BORDER PATROL *LONG AKWARD PAUSE* I asked if BP was more up to speed on the area than BLM since they "worked in the area" and he said that "ONLY BLM can authorize a closure or change in BLM status of a specific area".

He said that he was "not aware of any changes in that area" and directed me to speak to the BLM Chief Area Ranger who would know if ANY such changes could of been made.

I also asked if the BP had the authority to make us stop shooting all together just under the excuse of conducting activities in the general "area" which I again explained left a lot open to how much space the BP were using to justify their "area".

I again informed him that ILLEGALS travel across the entire span of the southern hemisphere of the STATE does that mean that BP has the authority to close the whole BLM "area" from here to AZ for the entire day just because they seen an ILLEGAL!?!

He then said I should speak to the BLM LE Ranger as this is more of a LE question than a BLM question.

Both the BLM Chief Area Ranger (760) and the BLM LE Ranger (619) were out of the office, I will try again tomorrow.

Viras: I ordered the Official Map from them it was the EL CAJON one. I should receive it on Tues. and I will scan and post.

-ENTHUSIAST

[FMJBT]

Originally Posted by DeviLDoc8483

Great Job ENTHUSIAST! I look forward to seeing this map. I cant wait for BBM3, or whatever the next shoot is going to be called. DevilDog, DvlDoc & I are working on some new targets.

+1 Enthusiast. Great job on all the research you have done so far, this should help us out a lot.

DevilDoc, I have some suggestions for plates if you guys have access to different sizes of material. Due to the weight, I don't think the 1/2" steel is needed for targets past about 400 yards out. From 400 to 600 I think 3/8" will work OK, and past 600 yards I'm pretty sure 1/4" should hold up decently. This could significantly reduce the amount of weight we have to carry out there next time. Either way, I'm up for carrying whatever you guys come up with (within reason) out there to set up.

[viras]

I just wanted to go on record and say that the hike almost killed me. My legs felt like jelly after that climb. My lungs were bursting. You guys all saw me when I got back - I crawled onto my blanket in the shade and took a 30 minute nap... man, I was hurting... It was REALLY dumb of me not to take any water on that hike...

I only popped of 60 rounds of .223, 60 rounds of .308, and 90 rounds of 9mm that day.

Also, FMJBT is a friggin' savage. The dude went on the retrieval trip as well as the set-up trip, and he was in front of the pack both times. I hate you healthy guys - you always make lazy asses like myself look bad. You're an animal bro!

EDIT: My buddy Q gave me the footage from his camera and I put together this little vid of my Saiga .308:

[sunborder]

I am going to have to get out to one of these some day soon. That looks absolutely righteous.

[zoid52]

When is the next shoot?

[Prc329]

I would vote for another sunday so I can go.

[ENTHUSIAST]

BLM Special Edition 1997 Surface Management Status Desert Access Guide California Desert District El Cajon:

[ENTHUSIAST]

Comparison of the other map posted:

[5968]

Looks to me like the BP agent might have a case of small man syndrome. Seriously, was he a midget?

[Spiggy]

yes, yes he was

[sbjmg]

I am dying to go. When will the next one be? Can we get a Saturday outing possibly?

I volunteer to do the hiking if need be (I like to consider myself to be in good shape).

[AJAX22]

Next time you go shooting ,someone needs to bring a box of lucky charms..

[360PA]

Chief, you may not be a big guy as you say, but that border patrol agent is only two feet tall! Seriously, how big was that guy? I know, I know, not the size of the dog in the fight, blah, blah, but seriously how does this guy have officer presence at that size, shaking, being nervous and ignorant with laws all with the retention off his hogleg?

[Sunwolf]

Don`t let anyone try to move you off public land.Takes alot of practice to hit consistently at long range.Keep at it!

[AKman]

Based on either map, it looks like the location was not on BLM public lands.

[Fobjoe]

...so does that mean we can't shoot there if it's not BLM land?

[AKman]

Well, its generally a good idea to get permission from the property owner. Its also a problem for registered AW owners to shoot on private property w/o landowner permission. However, BLM land is very close to this location , so a move to the next road west of the last shooting site would be OK.

[JDay]

Originally Posted by USN CHIEF

I had forgotten about that bro. He said that we should sign up for BUDS so that we could get some long distance rifle training among many other suggestions that he gave us to do instead of shooting

That's pretty funny, should have told him to sign up for sniper school so he could get some underwater demolitions training.