Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > THE CALGUNS COMMUNITY > CGSSA Range Cleanups
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

CGSSA Range Cleanups Schedule dates and time to clean up outdoor ranges. If we don't who will?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-28-2010, 5:14 PM
DaveInOroValley's Avatar
DaveInOroValley DaveInOroValley is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a free state as of 2020
Posts: 8,889
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default Wanted to FYI everyone on this

My Dad who is retired and in his 80's has always been a avid shooter along with all of us. When he retired it gave him the opportunity to do so more frequently so he was going to his local indoor range 3 times a week.

On a regular check up with his Doc they ran the usual blood tests and both his Doctor and him had quite a shock. His lead levels in his blood were "100"

Apparently 0-10 is considered normal. So he had to put off indoor shooting for the last 6 months to allow the lead levels to dissipate.

Just an FYI for all, that amount can eventual lead to other health issues you don't want to have in your body so a regular blood test may not be a bad idea if you are a frequent visitor to your local indoor range.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-28-2010, 5:20 PM
Maltese Falcon's Avatar
Maltese Falcon Maltese Falcon is offline
Ordo Militaris Templi
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 6,379
iTrader: 82 / 100%
Default

I did a research paper on Lead at Indoor Shooting ranges some time ago (Ok a loong time ago) and anyway depending on the ventilation system effectiveness (or lack thereof) ambient air lead levels can often be found at chronically hazardous levels....

I stopped going to my indoor range on weekends after that...

.
__________________
The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded. Charles-Louis de Secondat (1689-1755) Baron de Montesquieu


In America, freedom and justice have always come from the ballot box, the jury box, and when that fails, the cartridge box.
Steve Symms, ex-U.S. Senator, Idaho

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-28-2010, 6:42 PM
Joe Joe is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sac
Posts: 5,732
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Scary. I love indoor ranges
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-28-2010, 6:56 PM
freonr22's Avatar
freonr22 freonr22 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 12,937
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:30 PM
DaveInOroValley's Avatar
DaveInOroValley DaveInOroValley is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a free state as of 2020
Posts: 8,889
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert
I thought the same thing too. If anyone knows please let us know.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-28-2010, 7:58 PM
freonr22's Avatar
freonr22 freonr22 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 12,937
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

i mean when they do lead abatement, they use the same negative air machine with 12" thick hepas as with asbestos abatement AND the people in containment have to wear bunnysuits and hepa masks, honestly it cant be any/much dirtier than an indoor range. I am NOT saying sue the Range. BUT I would bet a jillion dollars that they have some compliance/responsibilty/liabilty to have a good DOCUMENTED ventilation system. All they really need is about 18-20 air changes per hour, doesnt need hepa filtration, just 100% outside air. now if it gets too cold or hot, THAT is a separate issue. picture 40 degree outside air coming in is going to chill the place so they will need to heat it, but ..... maybe they could do 40-60% outside air depending on the volume of shooters.
__________________
<img src=http://calgunsfoundation.org/images/stories/San-Benito.jpg border=0 alt= />[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.png[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-28-2010, 9:23 PM
mswanson223's Avatar
mswanson223 mswanson223 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 685
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Maybe they should run the indoor range ventilation system on a independent solar power source. I mean this is California , its sunny almost year round afterall.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-02-2010, 9:19 AM
inbox485's Avatar
inbox485 inbox485 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 3,677
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinwoodland View Post
My Dad who is retired and in his 80's has always been a avid shooter along with all of us. When he retired it gave him the opportunity to do so more frequently so he was going to his local indoor range 3 times a week.

On a regular check up with his Doc they ran the usual blood tests and both his Doctor and him had quite a shock. His lead levels in his blood were "100"

Apparently 0-10 is considered normal. So he had to put off indoor shooting for the last 6 months to allow the lead levels to dissipate.

Just an FYI for all, that amount can eventual lead to other health issues you don't want to have in your body so a regular blood test may not be a bad idea if you are a frequent visitor to your local indoor range.
Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. BTW lead doesn't dissipate in months. It is more like 20 - 30 years. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-02-2010, 9:23 AM
freonr22's Avatar
freonr22 freonr22 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 12,937
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampz View Post
Here's some info on indoor range design. Goes over the issues in this thread.

http://www.wbdg.org/design/firing_range.php

Grampz
Hemet, Ca.
EXCELLENT! thank you
__________________
<img src=http://calgunsfoundation.org/images/stories/San-Benito.jpg border=0 alt= />[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.png[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-05-2010, 8:06 PM
DaveInOroValley's Avatar
DaveInOroValley DaveInOroValley is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In a free state as of 2020
Posts: 8,889
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inbox485 View Post
Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. BTW lead doesn't dissipate in months. It is more like 20 - 30 years. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.
yes, my Dad has all but stopped going because the nearest outdoor range is a solid hour drive away and he's not found of a 2 hour round trip drive to shoot. I'm afraid he's at that age. Too bad too.

We had so many great outdoor ranges at one time close by that were closed mainly due to the politics of shooting. Have to love the non gun folk.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-06-2010, 2:07 AM
bigcalidave bigcalidave is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a
Posts: 4,489
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

F indoor ranges.... Go outside and have some fun.

The range ABSOLUTELY has liability for keeping the environment safe for consumers. If they aren't making an effort to keep the air clean to the best of their ability they are negligent.
__________________
...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-06-2010, 2:37 AM
gotgunz's Avatar
gotgunz gotgunz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Safe House
Posts: 1,973
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

I have heard that exposure to lead in large amounts or for prolonged periods of time can cause sterility......

But nobody has been able to tell me what the downside to this is.....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:38 PM
Eat Dirt's Avatar
Eat Dirt Eat Dirt is offline
CGSSA Specialist
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Riverside County / Hemet
Posts: 9,124
iTrader: 315 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inbox485 View Post
Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.

Interesting .
Maybe that's why I only went there once .................
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------

Tumbled BRASS For Sale

Just check my Long Running Thread : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=262832
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-08-2010, 3:35 AM
Rover Rover is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 1000 Oaks
Posts: 740
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinwoodland View Post
yes, my Dad has all but stopped going because the nearest outdoor range is a solid hour drive away and he's not found of a 2 hour round trip drive to shoot. I'm afraid he's at that age. Too bad too.

We had so many great outdoor ranges at one time close by that were closed mainly due to the politics of shooting. Have to love the non gun folk.
Why even worry about lead at 80? Makes me sound like an A-hole to say it, but the truth is, your dad will probably not be around long enough for the lead to affect him. For younger shooters, it's a very real, very valid concern, but why stop doing something he likes and is otherwise able to do because of a toxic chemical that mite harm him in the next 15-20 years?

That's assuming his doctor has not advised him to limit his exposure due to a major health risk in the very near future.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-09-2010, 8:48 AM
Filipino's Avatar
Filipino Filipino is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 73
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the FYI. No info is bad info.

Should be an eye opener for folks that work (or have worked) at indoor ranges!

Might have to see my personal doctor.




.
__________________
*





Under no circumstances my identity, comments and statements be construed
as a representation of a nation, an entity, a notion or a culture.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:15 AM
Lancear15's Avatar
Lancear15 Lancear15 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 2,629
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freonr22 View Post
Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert
OSHA would be all over a complaint about a range having inadequate ventilation.

Click here to find your local OSHA office.

Anonymous complaints are handled with extreme confidentiality.
__________________
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, even on Calguns.
NRA Life Member
USPSA Member
IDPA Member
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Farquaad Farquaad is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 330
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover View Post
Why even worry about lead at 80? Makes me sound like an A-hole to say it, but the truth is, your dad will probably not be around long enough for the lead to affect him. For younger shooters, it's a very real, very valid concern, but why stop doing something he likes and is otherwise able to do because of a toxic chemical that mite harm him in the next 15-20 years?
.
Because the truth is at high levels lead chronic poisoning takes months or a few years, not 15-20. At a level of 100ug/dl the poisoning is already acute, and will cause problems with your central nervous system and swelling of the brain, which can lead to coma and death. My Grandfather lived to 90, my grandmother is going strong into her mid 90's. I would like those extra 10-15+ years on the end of my life to be good ones. This range needs to be reported, it has the potential to greatly harm too many individuals. While the danger of lead poisoning seems to be inflated in our culture, it is a very real danger when the threat is actually present and should not be taken lightly.

My sources, the chemist over my shoulder and the mayo clinic website.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-18-2010, 8:01 PM
Eljay Eljay is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,985
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

It's definitely good to get your lead tested now and again. Make sure it's a test with a low threshold - if you see any at all you need to think about what you're doing a bit. Next time your doctor wants to measure your cholesterol tell them you have some lead exposure and just want to keep an eye on it - this worked for me even at Kaiser and the doctor didn't even blink at it. They tests kids now regularly too if you live in an older house, just in case they're finding some old paint chips somehow.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-18-2010, 8:06 PM
AK4me's Avatar
AK4me AK4me is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South of Heaven
Posts: 1,281
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Now Im glad I only go to an outdoor range.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-02-2010, 3:33 PM
ktom300 ktom300 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 124
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I always wondered about this. Target Masters in Milpitas has terrible ventilation. In summer it's hot and muggy inside with no air moving.
San Leandro rifle range on the other hand has amazing ventilation. Not sure if the filtration is up to snuff but they're definitly moving cool air around.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-02-2010, 3:38 PM
freonr22's Avatar
freonr22 freonr22 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 12,937
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default

ask target masters for a Indoor air quality testing results..... if they decline, offer to show them the way of the Bay Area Air Quality Management district
__________________
<img src=http://calgunsfoundation.org/images/stories/San-Benito.jpg border=0 alt= />[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/PCMECH%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-4.png[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
We will win. We are right. We will never stop fighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
They don't believe it's possible, but then Alison didn't believe there'd be 350K - 400K OLLs in CA either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisianagirl View Post
Our fate is ours alone to decide as long as we remain armed heavily enough to dictate it.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-11-2010, 7:29 PM
Shoot-it Shoot-it is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Merced
Posts: 5,155
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-11-2010, 10:32 PM
Seesm's Avatar
Seesm Seesm is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,820
iTrader: 50 / 100%
Default

Hope your Dad is ok and lead (less) soon.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-12-2010, 1:00 AM
Bagelthief Bagelthief is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 319
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoot-it View Post
Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.
Anyone??
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-12-2010, 8:13 AM
inbox485's Avatar
inbox485 inbox485 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 3,677
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoot-it View Post
Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagelthief View Post
Anyone??
Absolutely. Unless you are loading total jacketed bullets there is an open lead face and there is likely to be lead rubbed on the copper surface.

Lead hygiene for handling solid lead is as simple as either wearing disposable gloves or washing your hands immediately after you are done working and before eating, drinking or smoking.

Everyone's heard the four basic safety rules of firearms. I'd suggest that a fifth be considered:

5: Maintain lead hygiene
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:47 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy