MULTIGUN MATCH, APRIL 22ND @ THE RICHMOND ROD & GUN CLUB

[RaymondMillbrae]

OK, shooters...

here it is. The first multigun match of the year at the Richmond Rod & Gun Club. (RRGC).

The match will be this weekend, April 22nd, on Sunday.

The match fee is $25.00, and promises to be a good match to test your long gun skills. This match WILL NOT include pistols, as there are plenty of pistol matches throughout the year to keep you sharp. Instead, we will focus on the two longer cousins...the shotgun and rifle.

Below is an excerpt from Geoff, and will cover the match specifics.

Some folks have contacted me about the info on the Hot Shots website. Specifically if the "long gun match" mentioned is the multigun match. Yes it is.

So to clarify...this is the multigun match to look forward to this month. If you meet all the requirements...come on down. We will only be accepting a limited number of shooters. There is no pre-registration. Just come down, sign up, and hone those long gun skills.

See y'all there!

In Christ: Raymond

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Signups: 8:30am till done or 9:45am arrives. Match Briefing: 9:45am-10:am Competition: 10am-2-3pm (estimated). Results: 2:30-3:30pm (end of competition depending).

Match Details: USPSA rules (2009 Rifle,Shotgun and Multi-Gun addendum's).
Open squadding.
Time Plus scoring (USPSA EZ-Winscore Multi-Gun Match setup)
5 Stages
3 multi-gun (rifle & shotgun)
1 rifle only
1 shotgun only.
Rounds: 200 Estimated, 10 slugs required. (Figure 100 rifle, 100 shotgun, 10 slugs).
No slings required.
No shots beyond 50 yards.
Smallest target = 8 MOA (4" at 50 yards)

Target Neutralization: Steel must fall or indicate hit to score. Frangibles must indicate hit to score. Paper targets require one lower "A" hit, or one upper "A" or "B" hit to neutralize with Major/Minor Power Factor rounds, or slugs.

If not the above, then two hits anywhere on the target will neutralize it.

We will try to get all of the stages posted by the end of this week. But dont hold us to it...we have lives as well.

We will begin setup on Saturday the 21st at 1:30 pm. If you wish to help out,please come out on Saturday at 1-1:30pm to help setup. Or at 8am on Sunday morning to help get things rolling.

[GeoffLinder]

OK, stages 1, 2 & 5 for your perusal. Not set in stone, configuration may change a bit during setup but round counts and stage procedures will stay the same.

[gose]

Even with slugs its 1A/2 anywhere to neutralize?

[RaymondMillbrae]

Originally Posted by gose

Even with slugs its 1A/2 anywhere to neutralize?

Yes...even with slugs, it's one upper "A" or "B"...or one lower "A" to neutralize.

We did it the same way at this years USPSA MG Nationals.

In Christ: Raymond

[GeoffLinder]

Originally Posted by gose

Even with slugs its 1A/2 anywhere to neutralize?

Ayup! You can clean it with 5 slugs, if you dare

[Chivas]

I assume since it is USPSA Time Plus rules, a max of 8 in the tube at any one time for Tactical?

[GeoffLinder]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I assume since it is USPSA Time Plus rules, a max of 8 in the tube at any one time for Tactical?

You are correct.

[JamesY]

I'll be there shooting open (damn Saiga 12)

[Caseless]

Originally Posted by JamesY

I'll be there shooting open (damn Saiga 12)

I'll use the Saiga-12 and AKM. I guess that puts me in Open, too.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder

You are correct.

Ok, need to find my 8 shot tube and clean the dust off it. Heheheheheeheee

[joelogic]

Can the gun only hold 8 for Tac or can I only load 8 in the gun?

As a side note, how many ruling bodies/guidelines are their?
Is it only outlaw matches that you can stuff more shells in after the buzzer.
Do any matches enforce the gun only holding 8? My gun holds 9 so should I be carrying around a plug?

[RaymondMillbrae]

As far as I know (as per the newest, Jan 2012, MG Provisional Addendum) it only says "8 Rounds +1 for loaded start". It would be up to the RO to keep track of the rounds fired, to know if more were loaded - which would encure penalties.

I do not believe the magazine tube MUST ONLY BE CAPABLE of holding 8 rounds. The Rule Book says, "Max number if rounds in magazine". (But double check on this).

New Open Division rules also threw out the 10+1 rule as well. You can now load your shotgun to your hearts content before the start buzzer.

In Christ: Raymond

[gose]

Originally Posted by RaymondMillbrae

As far as I know (as per the newest, Jan 2012, MG Provisional Addendum) it only says "8 Rounds +1 for loaded start". It would be up to the RO to keep track of the rounds fired, to know if more were loaded - which would encure penalties.

Are you really sure about that?

I would think that if you load more than 8+1 at any time you'd get moved to Open.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by gose

Are you really sure about that?

I would think that if you load more than 8+1 at any time you'd get moved to Open.

You are correct!!!! That is why I am putting on the 8 shot tube so there is not chance I will stick a couple extra in there.

[GeoffLinder]

Yep, no limits on tube capacity, only on how many you stick in it at once. Tac = 8 in mag max at any time (before or after start signal) and max of 9 in the gun (1 in chamber, 8 in mag) at any time (before or after start).

This does put the onus of counting on the RO, but them's the rules

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by gose

Are you really sure about that?

I would think that if you load more than 8+1 at any time you'd get moved to Open.

Originally Posted by Chivas

You are correct!!!! That is why I am putting on the 8 shot tube so there is not chance I will stick a couple extra in there.

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder

Yep, no limits on tube capacity, only on how many you stick in it at once. Tac = 8 in mag max at any time (before or after start signal) and max of 9 in the gun (1 in chamber, 8 in mag) at any time (before or after start).

This does put the onus of counting on the RO, but them's the rules

Apparently we stand corrected!!!!!!!!! Thx!

[RaymondMillbrae]

What you guys are all saying is correct.

You can ONLY have 8 rounds in the tube...but your tube can be as long as you want it. But once again, only 8 rounds in the tube. That is why I mentioned that it was the RO's job to keep track of the round count.

This is kind of brutal for the RO...especially when running the super fast shooters. Part of the job is maintaining those round counts.

Don't even let me get started on keeping track of misses, or FTE's, on a long distance range with the super squad shooters. Throw in their erratic target engagement order, and it's a bear to keep up with them. (Our own Chris S was one of those shooters at the MG Nats. Blazing fast, but engaging targets in an untrackable pattern)!

Anyhoo...that's my understanding of the aforementioned matter.

In Christ: Raymond

[LawJp]

I decided to take it easy on the RO's (and myself) and I put the stock plug in the end of my plus 6 tube on my Benelli so I can only get 8 in there!

-Brian

[gose]

Originally Posted by RaymondMillbrae

This is kind of brutal for the RO...especially when running the super fast shooters. Part of the job is maintaining those round counts.

You mean just like its been in L10 and Production for 15 years? :P

[LMT4ME]

What are the different divisions and associated rules? Are you using multi gun rules or rules specifically for shotgun + rifle? Maybe I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly but for a multi gun match limited rifle, one can use electronic sights. In rifle only matches limited, one cannot have an electronic sight.

Specifically for me: I have a 10+1 rnd semi auto SG + carbine with electronic red dot sight (non magnified). I figure that's limited provided I start with 8+1 in SG @ start.

Is this correct?

[joelogic]

Yup, limited.

The only limited were you cant have an electronic sight is Heavy Metal, IIRC.

[sargenv]

Hmm.. somehow I like outlaw matches

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by sargenv

Hmm.. somehow I like outlaw matches

That is why our NCPS Memorial Day Multi-Gun Match WILL allow 8+1 in the tube for Tactical BEFORE the buzzer and AFTER the buzzer load as many as you want.

[sargenv]

If I weren't so swamped with stuff to do I'd probably go, but with the IRC the next week after your memorial day match, I have to focus on the one thing that I am good at.. I hope to attend the labor day match.

[GeoffLinder]

Originally Posted by LMT4ME

What are the different divisions and associated rules? Are you using multi gun rules or rules specifically for shotgun + rifle? Maybe I'm interpreting the rules incorrectly but for a multi gun match limited rifle, one can use electronic sights. In rifle only matches limited, one cannot have an electronic sight.

USPSA rifle AND multi gun matches allow a single non-magnified optic in Limited division on the rifle (in addition to iron sights). I think that USPSA should also allow a single non-magnified optic in Heavy Metal Limited, but they don't as of the moment.

[joelogic]

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder

USPSA rifle AND multi gun matches allow a single non-magnified optic in Limited division on the rifle (in addition to iron sights). I think that USPSA should also allow a single non-magnified optic in Heavy Metal Limited, but they don't as of the moment.

I definitely agree and then I can start using my own product.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Here you go.

In Christ: Raymond

[GeoffLinder]

Originally Posted by joelogic

I definitely agree and then I can start using my own product.

Is that an adjustable mount for an optima/docter style red dot for the M-14/MI-A?

[joelogic]

Its a fixed mount and we have one available for most major micro red dots. Click on my signature.

[sl4ck3r]

Is coming just to watch okay?

[LMT4ME]

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder

USPSA rifle AND multi gun matches allow a single non-magnified optic in Limited division on the rifle (in addition to iron sights). I think that USPSA should also allow a single non-magnified optic in Heavy Metal Limited, but they don't as of the moment.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong rule book but the rifle (not multi gun) indicated no optics or electronic sites (see attached), hence my confusion. But if electronic sites are good to go then that is great.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Originally Posted by sl4ck3r

Is coming just to watch okay?

Sure...spectators are welcome.

Just make sure to bring eyes and ears. (Eye and hearing protection).

And for everyone shooting, don't forget our range is "chamber flag mandatory"!

In Christ: Raymond

[RaymondMillbrae]

Originally Posted by LMT4ME

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong rule book but the rifle (not multi gun) indicated no optics or electronic sites (see attached), hence my confusion. But if electronic sites are good to go then that is great.

If you go to the USPSA webite (Rules), you are looking at the 2009 Rifle Rule Book edition.

The new USPSA Multigun Rulebook is just about complete. It is written in a different format, and will make it much easier for the average shooter to read and peruse around. (The "technical stuff" will now be towards the rear of the book).

They were going to release it for last weeks Multigun Nationals, but decided against it for various reasons. (Which I will not get to in this thread). Suffice it to say that the new book is getting all it's rough corners smoothed-over, and will be out in hard print very soon. Very, very, soon.

Anyhoo...to make a long story short, if it's magnified, you are in the Tactical Division. If it is a fixed 1x, you are good to go in the Limited Division.

In Christ: Raymond

By the way, the Appendixes I attached above are from the Jan 2012 Multigun Rule Book Addendum.

[GeoffLinder]

Originally Posted by LMT4ME

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong rule book but the rifle (not multi gun) indicated no optics or electronic sites (see attached), hence my confusion. But if electronic sites are good to go then that is great.

The 2009 rifle rules are the latest published version of the rifle only rules but do not include this ruling as it was made in 2010. The newer multi-gun addendum's are the latest word on this for rifle only, or multi-gun matches and trump the earlier rifle only rule book.

It must be a non-magnified optic, true 1x, no adjustment possibility or you are in Tac.

[LMT4ME]

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder

The 2009 rifle rules are the latest published version of the rifle only rules but do not include this ruling as it was made in 2010. The newer multi-gun addendum's are the latest word on this for rifle only, or multi-gun matches and trump the earlier rifle only rule book.

It must be a non-magnified optic, true 1x, no adjustment possibility or you are in Tac.

Thanks for clarifying the rules. It didn't make sense that the multi-gun rules Raymond posted for rifle should be different than the rifle rules.

[GeoffLinder]

Here is stage 4 for your perusal.

[Javi]

^That looks like a lot of fun!

[gose]

Originally Posted by RaymondMillbrae

Here is stage 3.

Be ready...be very ready!

In Christ: Raymond

Nothing in front of the pipes?

[RaymondMillbrae]

Originally Posted by gose

Nothing in front of the pipes?

Aw, smack...I forgot the resetting poppers from Hell.

Ha ha.

I made a correction in the design and instructions, so I am deleting te old one and adding the corrected one.

See y'all at te match.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Did you know that ONLY three people showed-up to build all the stages? Me, Geoff, and Greg. (Kevin Chu stuck around for about 1.5 hours to help out). Kudos, Kevin!!!

PSS: Woops...drats again. Just realized my birdshot count was wrong in the stage description. It's been corrected now.

[sargenv]

Interesting what I miss when I'm out of town...