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Old 02-15-2018, 10:16 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Default Is the Interstate Intrafamilial limited to gifts?

Many have told me that in order to import an off roster handgun into the state using the interstate intrafamilial exemption it has to be a gift. I think that the exemption would include a trade or even a cash purchase from the out of state family member. Am I wrong?

I don't want to get into straw purchase issues and am focused on the situation where a Father living out of state sells an off roster handgun that he has owned for years to his Son living in California.

I have asked the same question here on the how Cailfornia laws apply/affect you forum and so far responders think the exception is limited to gifts.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:34 AM
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As far as I know, it is not limited to gifts.

The gift aspect is required if they go out and buy it with the intention of transferring to another person (4473 11a).

I don't think, but would have to check, that the CA PC specifies that it has to be a gift.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
I don't think, but would have to check, that the CA PC specifies that it has to be a gift.
I'm pretty sure it does. Ill find out where in a minute and update thread. We had an issue where a customer was buying online and shipping to dad in another state and then having dad go 4473 it and then send it in to us as a 'gift'. When we spoke with DOJ field rep and ATF about this I remember her mentioning the roster exemptions being gifts only. Obviously the issue here wasn't the gift but the straw purchases. Ill find the wording..

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1156542

Maybe discussed here. I didn't see the PC mentioned tho. Ill find that.
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Last edited by acespawnshop; 02-15-2018 at 12:48 PM..
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:48 PM
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Enough Calgunners had told me that it had to be a gift, Kemesa, but if your initial opinion is such I am more confident in mine. The way I see it is that, because PC 32110(b) provides that PC 27585 is not applicable to a "sale, loan, or transfer" exempt from PC 27545, and because the FFL is only being used to make the delivery in order to comply with 18 USC 922, the roster is irrelevant.
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Old 02-15-2018, 4:25 PM
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There is a specific CA PC in regards to being exempt from the certified list. It used to be easier to find when I could download the complete text of the CA PC, but that does not seem to work now. I was told for the DROS to mark it as "SB 15 Exempt - 27870PC intrafamily transfer, 12133PC Roster Exempt", but the numbers changed.

This is in regards to not having to do a CA PPT:

Quote:
27875.

(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
The question is what "other means" means.

Still looking for the certified list exemption to see what it says.
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Old 02-15-2018, 4:45 PM
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If I followed the spaghetti correctly, 32110 states that if you are exempt from 27545, that you are exempt from the certified list.

So that leaves getting the firearms by "other means", which I would think could include buying it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
If I followed the spaghetti correctly, 32110 states that if you are exempt from 27545, that you are exempt from the certified list.

So that leaves getting the firearms by "other means", which I would think could include buying it.
That is what I concluded from 32110(b); that if 27545 does not apply you are exempt from the roster and 27545 does not apply to a transaction between defined family members. Librarian has posted over on the how does California law affect me forum that the sales transaction would be illegal, but was unable at the time to explain why as he didn't have his lap top.
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Old 02-15-2018, 7:45 PM
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Do you have a link to that post?
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False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse.

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:41 PM
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This is the post to which I referred.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Not on my laptop, so can’t cut and paste code, but the usual benefit to interstate intrafamilial is off-Roster handguns — and sale is prohibited.

It’s messy because PC seems written for only in-California transfer.
Presumably after being able to access his laptop, Librarian now questions only a gift qualifies for the exception from the roster accorded an interstate intrafamiliar transfer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Sol I was thinking of PC 32000, in relevant part and the part that stuck was 'imports for sale' - arguably what turns out to mean.

However, 32000 also covers 'gives', which would apply to the interstate intrafamilial gifts.

So now I don't know under what authority DOJ appears to be suggesting 'gifts', nor where 'our side' got it; I seem to recall something years ago from Bill Wiese, who may have said that was legal advice he had received, or maybe I'm misremembering.

'Gift' has been working through DOJ audits, but now I'm not so sure that's a requirement.
(Bold emphasis added by me)

Last edited by Chewy65; 02-15-2018 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 02-16-2018, 1:56 PM
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Gifts are specifically mentioned, which is easier, but since it also says "other means", it leaves it wide open.
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