|
Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
"NEW" Build - need your input
Hello,
I'm interested in building a bolt action rifle. Used for bench shooting only from 100 out to 1,000 yards. I do NOT reload or care to at this point. I already have all the "components" in mind for the build, what I need is your help on choosing a CALIBER based on this info. I hope I gave you enough info to help me decide. I sold my last rifle that was 6.5 Creedmoor which was a really nice rifle, but got expensive to shoot, since I'm just shooting paper and some metal targets. I already have a really nice .223 bolt action, but want something with a little more power to shoot at 500+ yards, more than the .223. But I also want to keep the cost of ammo down also. So what are my choices and why? Thanks for the input gentleman |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
You can sometimes get lucky and find cheap 308 ammo, but really it looks like 6.5CM is about as budget friendly as you're going to find for a long range cartridge. I'm seeing them online for as low as $0.55 per round for brass.
For 1000 yards, a dollar a shot is pretty good. |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
It would be really helpful if you could list the components you already have. That way, the experts here (I am not one) will be better able to give you guidance.
--P
__________________
"If you want nice fresh oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you are satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, well, that comes a little cheaper." |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
If the cost of the ammo is bothering you the most, shop for your ammo first and then decide if the cartridge is adequate. My guess is you won't save much money on cartridges bigger than .223.
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
I find myself getting bored shooting paper so I change things up. I've got some small (2-1/2") steel targets for my .22 and small gongs (3-4") for centerfire calibers. If I really want a challenge (for me anyway) I set up spent shotgun hulls at 50 yards and go at them with a .22, or pick up leftover clay birds and set them up at 100 yards with the .22. Since I'm always practicing for hunting season, I use shooting sticks or the tripod I take in the field with me. Or I sit on the ground and shoot with my elbows on my knees. I'm also starting to attempt off-hand shooting.
Rarely shoot from a bench other than for load development since they're kinda hard to come by in the field while hunting. If money is an object, and it seems like it is, consider ways to make the shooting at shorter distances more challenging and use the rifle(s) you have. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
THANKS for input so far, here's some updated info. I was looking for a flat shooting small caliber for the new rifle. (smaller than 6.5 creed or .308) The components aren't cheap, not afraid to spend $$ on them, but just wondering if I can get a smaller caliber round than 6.5 creed and .308 to do what I'm looking to do - if it's possible.
I know the rifle is not a "cheap" build and your wondering why am I concerned about ammo. I get it but just looking at smaller caliber options. Am I wrong to think that 6.5 Creedmoor is just overkill for paper targets? TomReloaded - ok, I see your point Preston-CLB - here's the main components, KRG Whiskey 3 comp chassis, Defiance action, Creiger or Bartlein barrel, ARC rings, Leupold Mk5 5-25 Sigstroker - I get your point, but I just want experience from shooters about specific calibers....I'm asking everyone to get their point of view and experience. JackEllis - great points, just looking to build another rifle with more power than .223 if possible with keeping ammo cost down |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
I appreciate your input, Im SET on the KRG chassis (I already have the chassis and love it)
I'm curious what you suggest for replacement chassis and scope and why. Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-02-2020 at 5:10 PM.. |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
1000 yards? the cheapest will be 6.5CM if you don’t reload.
Premium heavy 223 might be more than basic creed.
__________________
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
ok, I appreciate your input. I've shot a Whiskey 3 comp chassis on bench and prone and was comfortable with it. I'm also not trying to compete. What about scope?
Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-02-2020 at 6:11 PM.. |
#14
|
||||
|
||||
If you want to shoot out to 1,000 yards and are worried about cost of ammo and do NOT reload, you are in for a disappointment.
__________________
"... when a man has shot an elephant his life is full"- John Alfred Jordan "A set of ivory tusks speaks of a life well lived." - Unknown |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
What caliber/contour/length/twist are they? |
#16
|
||||
|
||||
Right there with you
__________________
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well. |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
So you want something in between the sizes of 223 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor, that has factory ammunition available, and shoots well out to 1000 yards?
That narrows it down to 224 Valkyrie, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel. I can't think of any more. If the Defiance action has a 308 bolt face, then that further narrows it down to 6mm Creedmoor. The cost of this ammo is about the same as 6.5 Creedmoor though. |
#18
|
||||
|
||||
A 6.5 Creedmoor is the cheapest out of the box for 1k yards. There are lots of other cartridges that do well at that distance with the 223 being cheapest. But for factory ammo you wont beat the 6.5 Creedmoor. Lots of match grade rounds for about $1 each.
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
No, I don't, these were the barrels I was thinking of using. I cant really figure out length, twist, contour until I know what caliber I'm going to use
Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-02-2020 at 7:32 PM.. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
I was kinda afraid of that. BUT I'm NOT an expert, so thats why I wanted to reach out to get opinions from more experienced shooters.
|
#21
|
||||
|
||||
This is the most relevant comment yet.
|
#22
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Skipping 223/5.56, no other chamberings are going to have match ammo cheaper than 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Match ammo automatically means smaller groups but more expensive ammo. Cheap ammo normally means larger groups so you gotta pick what's more important, group size or ammo price.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. Last edited by ar15barrels; 04-02-2020 at 8:48 PM.. |
#23
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Complains about the cost of premium fuel and tires...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#24
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Reloading is SO important to get the best accuracy possible out of a rifle. The reduced cost is just a side benefit. The saying goes that you won't save any money reloading because you will just shoot twice as much. The thing is that with reloading, you won't spend any more money to shoot twice as much. The lower cost to shoot is WHY you shoot so much more.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Reloading may save money - IF I shoot enough to cover the probably $1,000 cost of reloading equipment (whatever it costs) but I don't shoot that much, I definitely do not have the room to re load and I have other rifles that I shoot. So I dont think reloading is "my" answer. I also said I'm not trying to squeeze out every bit of accuracy. Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-02-2020 at 11:22 PM.. |
#26
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Hence my comment about a Ferarri. 6mm creedmoor is probably the answer for you then if you are looking for something less powerful than 6.5 creedmoor without stepping all the way down to 223. The costs will likely be higher than 6.5 creedmoor though since there are fewer companies selling the ammo and fewer guns in the market that shoot that ammo. Reloading absolutely opens you up to be able to shoot any manner of wildcats like a 6x223 which would give you similar exterior ballistics to 308 with just slightly more recoil than 223 and at a lower cost to shoot than factory 223 match ammo. Without reloading, you are completely blocked of all the small capacity mid-bore cartridges other than maybe 6.5 Grenade but even 6.5 grenade match ammo is going to be priced similar to 6.5 creedmoor or 308 and it won't work in your build without customizing AICS type magazines and a non-standard boltface.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#27
|
||||
|
||||
As a price comparison on Midwayusa:
Federal gold medal 308 (168 or 175SMK) $26.99 Federal gold medal 6 creedmoor 107SMK $27.99 Federal gold medal 6.5 creedmoor 140SMK $28.99 Federal gold medal 6.5 grenade 130Berger $28.99
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. Last edited by ar15barrels; 04-02-2020 at 11:57 PM.. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
what you want is a new barrel do a .223ai, throat it long for 80-90gr bullets shoot your factory 75gr stuff from 100-500 shoot custom loads from 500-1k - you can get these made for you - buy them 1k at a time |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
I completely agree with Randall. I have a 338 lapua and 50 beo. I load both at under a buck a round. I save 50-75 percent. Lapua Ammo get up around the 100 buck mark real quick. That means more shooting. With my 224 valkrie, if I didn’t reload I’d be ****ed. It hates the American Eagle 77gr tmj. Right now I have 8 different loads ready to be tested. Reloading gives u a new hobbie that ties into shooting.
|
#30
|
|||
|
|||
If your looking for accuracy out to 1000 yards and don't reload the 6BR will be the most accurate gun/ammo combination you can piece together.
Ammo is $2 a shot but you can sell the once fired Lapua brass for 75 cents each to help with the cost. A short action with a standard 0.473 boltface a Bartlein 8 twist barrel 0.236 bore 28 inches finished length will last you at your level 5000 rounds. If you insist on a chassis you can buy an accuracy asset for the handguard so you have a flat section for riding on a bag. This keeps the gun level and makes sure you keep it in the right position shot after shot. At 500 yards on a calm day it will outshoot most rifles on this forum at 100 yards on a typical day. Very little recoil guilt edge accuracy long barrel life makes it a hard combination to beat.
__________________
Lynn Dragoman, Jr. Southwest Regional Director Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA) www.unlimitedrange.org Not a commercial business. URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards! Last edited by LynnJr; 04-03-2020 at 5:07 AM.. |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
now it sounds more to me like you want a rifle that you can shoot at 100 to 600yds 90% of the time and out to 1000yds on occasion...a 6BR is what id suggest....ammo is a little more but you can easily sell the brass for .50c to .75c so ammo is about $115 per 50...sell brass for .60=$30 so ammo is about $85 bucks per 50... https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/9461 if you look around you can find 6BR ammo cheaper... https://www.wikiarms.com/group/6mm_Norma_BR i shot a 6BR for awhile and ill tell you its hard to find something it wont shoot well. as far as the scope...i shoot a leupold 7-35 and had a 5x25 both with the CCH reticle...there are better choices for BR but sense your not serious then it will work...now the problem with the 5-25 is the reticle is thick and it is under powdered...i sold my 5-25 and bought the 7-35 for this vary reason...dont get me wrong the 5-25 is a very nice scope but i can run my 35 at 23-25X when its 95deg out but again im not a bench rest shooter. Lynn beat me to it LOL! Last edited by longrange1; 04-03-2020 at 5:54 AM.. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
"NEW" Build - need your input
Quote:
Is it easy to develop an accurate load for Valkyrie? Last edited by Jesse 2; 04-12-2020 at 9:15 PM.. |
#33
|
||||
|
||||
If you want to shoot accurately at 1000 yards, you will eventually want to reload, so that you can develop a load that increases accuracy over a box of factory ammo.
Do not select the .308, factory ammo tends to go subsonic before 1000 yards, and this adversely affects accuracy. Go to http://forum.accurateshooter.com/ and review the cartridges that the benchrest shooters prefer.
__________________
|
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-03-2020 at 9:49 AM.. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I am very comfortable with the chassis. Yes, it is "tacticool" but I already have it and like it. Just because for "x" amount of people its not the right chassis doesn't mean it can't wok for me. I've shot about 200 rounds from a buddies rifle (6.5 creed) with same chassis and I really liked it. Forgot to mention I shoot alot in the prone position. The KRG gives me the "option" to possibly compete if I want. At this time I have no plans to compete or reload, mainly because I don't have the space to do it and I don't shoot enough. However, if I change my mind in the future this chassis is a great option. I have done some research, but still ongoing as you can see..... YES= rifle that you can shoot at 100 to 600yds 90% of the time and out to 1000yds on occasion My screen name, (BlackOpsArms) I'm now 51, when I was 44 I was diagnosed with an illness from the VA, was out of work for 3 years in and out of Long Beach VA hospital. (I'm healthy now) I started Black Ops Outfitters to make some "side" money selling guns stuff, outdoor stuff, etc...and then sold the biz and the guy didn't do anything with it. Noted on the 6bR and the Leupold scope. Thank you EVERYONE for your input Last edited by BlackOpsArms; 04-03-2020 at 10:03 AM.. |
#36
|
||||
|
||||
6BR is what you seek. Run a tuner to help aid in getting factory ammo dialed into a particular gun (won't help all the time, but it can improve groups).
Then, you can sell your once fired brass to me If you don't have the space to reload, then find a friend and load at his place. If you do not shoot much, then the brass is going to last a long time and you wont have to load very often. Buy Lapua brass, Varget, CCI450, and 105 hybrids. Load around 29-30 grains of powder and watch those big 1 hole groups at 100 yds. 1 lb of pounder is going to last you ~240 rounds. Brass - 100 cases (will last easy 1,000 rounds (10 shots per case average)) - $90 Varget Powder - 1 lb - $30 CCI 450 - 1,000 primers - $37 105 hybrids - 300 bullets - $37.39 * 3 You're talking about $0.62 per round and this is go win a match components and you can compete in PRS, BR and F-Class if you so desire. This round has no problem reaching 1K targets.
__________________
Visit- www.barrelcool.com The Original Chamber Flag and Barrel Cooler in 1 Instagram: barrelcool_ Last edited by bsumoba; 04-03-2020 at 10:22 AM.. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
OP, do you already have an action with a .308 bolt face? .224 Valkyrie or 6.5 Grendel as mentioned above are the only ones I can think of that reach 1000 consistently. Even then I doubt you're saving much money over 6.5 CM, especially because budget versions of 6.5 ammo are reportedly pretty good. You don't necessarily need ELD-M. |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Just a note: I have NO plans to reload at this time guys. I live in an apartment and have no garage, NO place to reload, I'm actually moving to Las Vegas in July and buying a home (Kommiefornia too $$$) and will have a garage and can possibly reload then. |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Just a thought. I ended up in a 1 bedroom apartment with zero room for a while.
I mounted my lee single stage press to a 4x4 chunk of wood, and a mounted that to a small round detachable board. It took up no room at all and hid in the corner. I could reload on my couch. I kept the rest of the reloading tools in 50cal ammo box under my bed. Now I have a house with 2 garages and a very large reloading station and thats awesome, but if you have 4 square inches of spare room you can reload! I know its bad budgeting... but when you reload you buy 1k primers here, few pounds there, and collect cases along the way. When it actually comes time to load up and shoot, you can often grab a box of 100 top shelf projectiles for $30 and load up and go. Makes for a dirt cheap outing. I know thats not factoring in components but its still $30 out of your pocket right then to go shoot a lot. If im out of stock and someone wants to go shoot, that same 100 rounds of alright store bought stuff is going to run me at least $120. That range trip just got damn expensive. Just something to consider... ammo costs for the cool stuff is outrageous. I'll put my hastly assembled, but well tuned cheapo loads against a box of federal gold metal match any day. |
#40
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
22 Long Rifle 22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire 223 Remington 243 Winchester 6 Creedmoor 308 Winchester 6.5 Creedmoor 300 Winchester Magnum 338 Lapua Magnum Take your pick, there aren't any other options that rest of us have heard of that you haven't considered already or have rejected already. You say that you have no plans to reload AT THIS TIME, but might be able to consider it in July. That is not that far off into the future, start thinking about it. Shucks, it's April already and with this lockdown going on, you probably won't even get your rifle built or be able to shoot it until July or later anyway. Regarding the Ferrari analogy that Randall made, think about it this way. This is what you'd asking for if this were about cars instead of guns: You want a vehicle that has: Top Speed: 200 mph Acceleration 0-60 mph: 3.9 seconds Fuel Economy: 30 mpg city / 50 mpg highway (Gasoline) Fuel Type: Gasoline and Diesel and E85 and Plug-in Electric Seating Capacity: 14 Adults Cargo Capacity: 100 cu-ft Wheelchair Accessible: YES Towing Capacity: 15,000 lbs MSRP: $30,000 You're asking for 3 different types of vehicles, all rolled into one, for a reasonable price. So going back to guns, if you don't have the space to reload, maybe you at least have space to store 3 rifles, so get 3 separate rifles, each tailored to a specific activity: close range cheap casual shooting, long range precision shooting, big game hunting, etc. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|