1st .357 Wheel gun and contemplating: WC, SWC, LRN, or plated...

[the86d]

I pick my girl from FFL jail this week, and only have 100 rd (50 .357, and 50 .38 Special) to start with, so I am on the fence on what I want to load.

The 1st .357 I shot when a coworker took me to the range were SWC's.
I am contemplating WC (Wad Cutter), SWC (Semi Wad Cutter) and such, as stated in the Title...

1) Great idea for clean-paper-punches, but what projectiles do you usually run for .38 Special and .357 with a moderate load (I am not looking to go over 1000FPS)?

2) Are diamond-hash-sided projectiles worse than plated for lands and grooves?:

b) Where would you crimp on these, and would they be a taper, or roll?

3) Nice-priced source for what you buy?

4) Do you personally use the same projectiles for .38 and .357 cartridges?

[greg.peterson.73]

If its for target shooting 38 special is good but .357 is great big kick its fun you dont need anything fancy for shooting targets

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[rsrocket1]

For clean paper punches nothing beats wadcutters. Semi wadcutters are also pretty good. You'll find that round nose bullets are the easiest to load into the cylinders and makes using a speed loader very convenient.

Roll crimp on revolver rounds. The idea here is to prevent the unfired bullets in the cylinder from jumping out of the cases due to recoil from the shot you are taking. Try loading a few rounds with a light or no crimp and a stout load and look at the unfired bullets after taking a few shots. You'll be surprised how well a revolver acts as a kinetic bullet puller.

I use the Lee 358-158-RF cast bullet
It does not punch as clean a hole as a wad or semi wadcutter but is a good compromise for target shooting and possibly other uses. At 2 cents a bullet (at $1/# for lead), I can't complain.

Yes I use the same bullet for mild 38 spec and hot 357 loads. If you load for 700fps 38/357 you'll see how mild your gun can shoot. Almost like a rimfire. Top speed 38 rounds (~950-1000 fps) let's you know you are shooting a real gun and full speed 357 is for real fun.

[Revoman]

I have loaded and shot the Hornady Hollow-Base Wadcutters for years (with the diamond pattern). They leave a LOT of lead at the forcing cone area and top strap. They are of very soft lead, so I would not consider them a good candidate for anything 'magnum'.
I switched to Bear Creek Lead, Moly-coat Hollow-Base Wadcutter bullets since I have a local supplier and they work much better, harder lead, no leading at the cone.
Yes, you want a small roll crimp for the mild 38 loads, but the crimp gets heavier as the load velocity/pressure increases. My normal test is to set a crimp and push the loaded round against the side of my wooden benchtop, bullet against the top, to see if it moves (measuring before and after), if it doesn't move, then the crimp is good. Pushing with a lot of pressure for magnums, much less for special.
As stated, a Wadcutter looks like a paper punch was used on the target, clean holes, a Semi-Wadcutter not so clean.
Unless the lead is very hard, you may need to consider using gas checks in a magnum load, otherwise stick with jacketed (I have never tried plated for magnum).

[Friesland]

Tagged; haven't given much thought to reloading yet. Been considering stocking-up on .357 mag brass and reloading .38 Special +p ammo. Have a S&W Centennial that hasn't been shot yet and I'm not sure what to expect. Will be starting out with cheap WC 148 gr .38 Special, then 158 gr. SWC. Have to learn how to handle this little revolver.

the Question, how does one clean out the left over lead and about how many rounds between cleanings? Does finishing up with jacked/ plated ammo help?

[Barbarosa]

For target you can't beat a 148gr LWC with 2.8gr bullseye. I swear I can see the bullet travel downrange. Very accurate and easy to shoot. For a little more punch I load 158gr LSWC with either 3.0gr bullseye or 3.3gr bullseye depending on how much oomph I want.

[Divernhunter]

I use Bear Creek Bullets for lead bullets. Usually semi-wad-cutter. They work well and the manufacturer is local. I just go to his shop and pick them up about 15 miles from my home.
The bullet you pictured will not be "harder" on the rifling.
For mild paper punching or ground squirrels loads the lead is fine.

For hotter or SD or hunting loads I use 125-140gr jacketed bullets. I have killed deer with Hornady 125gr HP but I prefer to use my 44mag or 454Casull now.

I also use jacketed bullets in a mild, mid-range load for target shooting. I have been able to get them quite cheap in the past. I have not bought any in years and still have a good supply.

I do not suggest Bullseye for a beginner reloader. Too easy to double charge. I use Unique and 700X because they work well and I have a bunch of it I got years ago. Also have used red dot, green dot because I do not load shotshells anymore and have it as well as the 700X left over.
For mag loads I prefer H-110/Win296 which are the same powder and have used 4227 and blue dot. The mag loads are always jacketed bullets.

If you are near me I have some 38sp brass I would give you. I load all my mild loads in 357mag brass when I can. I do have a 38sp so I also load for it.

Be sure to buy Carbide type reloading dies so you do not need to lube the brass.

[ojisan]

Lead bullets for .38
Jacketed bullets for .357

No point in loading lead bullets in strong .357 loads since the lead can't be driven as fast.

[Paul_R]

Originally Posted by Friesland

the Question, how does one clean out the left over lead and about how many rounds between cleanings? Does finishing up with jacked/ plated ammo help?

Too many variables to say how many rounds between cleanings. As for how to remove lead, the quickest way is to shoot a few jacketed bullets. Other than that, a Lewis lead remover.

[Abenaki]

Originally Posted by ojisan

Lead bullets for .38
Jacketed bullets for .357

No point in loading lead bullets in strong .357 loads since the lead can't be driven as fast.

Wrong
You can push a lead boolit in a hand gun just as fast as jacketed one
You do not even really need a gas check.


If you are just banging away at close distance, I would just use a wadcutter.
I would use a semi wadcutter for more distance, or a hotter load.

Take care
Abenaki

[ojisan]

Again I see that you have failed to mention the difference between soft swaged or cast bullets for plinking and hard cast bullets which can do most of what a jacketed can do.
There is no need to be mysterious in your answers, lead people the wrong way or go with the face palm thing.
Just explain that there are different kinds of lead bullets and how they can be used.

Make a contribution to the thread instead of playing the gotcha game.

Rather than give the OP a long lesson on bullets, for now I gave him the basics that will work without playing lead / tin / antimony blends and quenching games or send him looking for a hardness checker.

[pacrat]

1) Great idea for clean-paper-punches, but what projectiles do you usually run for .38 Special and .357 with a moderate load (I am not looking to go over 1000FPS)?

2) Are diamond-hash-sided projectiles worse than plated for lands and grooves?:

b) Where would you crimp on these, and would they be a taper, or roll?

3) Nice-priced source for what you buy?

4) Do you personally use the same projectiles for .38 and .357 cartridges?

I will try and answer to best of my ability. But JM2c.

[1].....The square shoulder of both a WC and a SWC give the same hole in paper. Moderate loads below 1k FPS I use 2 bullets that I cast myself. 148 Gr WC out of a Saeco 6 gang mould, cast soft..........but I don't push them over 800 fps. Or they lead excessively and accuracy suffers. And a 166 gr truncated cone type SWC from a Lee 2 Cavity mould, cast very hard. 38 WC for target paper punching, plinking. SWC for magnum loads which I personally have pushed to 1400 FPS.

JHP in 110 and 125 gr I reserve for very high velocity HD rounds.

[2].....They are "SWAGED" not cast and from dead soft lead. The hash marks are for holding a dipped alox lube. STRONGLY suggest you never push them over 800/850 FPS. Unless you really enjoy scrubbing lead from bores.

[b] Just below the shoulder. And just enough roll or taper crimp to straighten case walls after seating. No need to do a heavy crimp. Because at the velocity they are designed for. You will never experience any "bullet jump".

[3].....I cast 95% of pistol bullets I shoot. So, sorry, no help there.

[4].....Asked and answered in [1]

JM2c

[rm1911]

Load and shoot 500 lead then clean the gun.

Load and shoot 500 plated then clean the gun.

[stilly]

Originally Posted by the86d

I pick my girl from FFL jail this week, and only have 100 rd (50 .357, and 50 .38 Special) to start with, so I am on the fence on what I want to load.

The 1st .357 I shot when a coworker took me to the range were SWC's.
I am contemplating WC (Wad Cutter), SWC (Semi Wad Cutter) and such, as stated in the Title...

1) Great idea for clean-paper-punches, but what projectiles do you usually run for .38 Special and .357 with a moderate load (I am not looking to go over 1000FPS)?

2) Are diamond-hash-sided projectiles worse than plated for lands and grooves?:

b) Where would you crimp on these, and would they be a taper, or roll?

3) Nice-priced source for what you buy?

4) Do you personally use the same projectiles for .38 and .357 cartridges?

I believe I developed some 105gr SWC for .38/.357/9mm and they seem to be a lot of fun. They zip and leave beautiful holes. I would not want them for much more than plinking though they might do well on small game also.

Usually I see folks run about 158gr for .357 and around 125 or so for .38 but the 105swc is great in .38.

Just remember to NOT USE BLUE DOT for ANYTHING 125gr in .357MAG.


Diamond sided pills are swaged hornady usually. I think they are about the same for grooves and lube is placed all over them? I am not certain, but PC them and who cares about lube.

Wheel guns usually get ROLL crimp. Roll crimp tends to hold a bit more securely for these sort of things. Also, I buy lead and straight cast things out.

But if you already got a few of these things, PM me and we can work out something if you want some PC pills to try out.

[the86d]

Dang, y'all are going make me buy casting gear, PC gear (and I have never been very PC), a dedicated tumbler, a toaster oven, and a bunch of SWC and WC's, but at least I'll be getting cheap ammo?!

[Friesland]

Originally Posted by the86d

Dang, y'all are going make me buy casting gear, PC gear (and I have never been very PC), a dedicated tumbler, a toaster oven, and a bunch of SWC and WC's, but at least I'll be getting cheap ammo?!

#1, first item on the list, find a lasting supply of lead!

[JagerDog]

148gr hollow base wad cutters from Bear Creek for punching paper with something like Bullseye or HP38 pushing it. The button nosed ones are good too.

For the carbine I load 38 special with 158gr cast SWC with blue Dot.

I haven't had leading issues with Bear Creek, but putting a cylinder of jacketed through after a box or two of cast helps.

Any jacketed hollow point (Hornady XTP, Montana Gold, etc.) for 357 with something like H110, AA#9 pushing it. 158gr is "typical".

Go to 180 soft point for "large game".

[checkenbach]

If you are shooting a late model S&W, you may want to re-think shooting lead bullets out of it. My 686SSR had terrible leading issues due to the new style rifling. Hardcast was better than soft, but I'm using plated bullets now, no more issues...

[Abenaki]

How is the rifling different?

Take care
Abenaki

[GILMORE619]

Originally Posted by checkenbach

If you are shooting a late model S&W, you may want to re-think shooting lead bullets out of it. My 686SSR had terrible leading issues due to the new style rifling. Hardcast was better than soft, but I'm using plated bullets now, no more issues...

Sounds like you were shooting undersized boolits
I've shot soft lead powder coated thru an S&W competitor with no leading issues what so ever.

[Milsurp Collector]

To save money and reduce leading I have been using plated and polymer-coated bullets. Cheaper than jacketed, cleaner than and almost as cheap as plain lead. I haven't made any full-power .357 magnum loads, just .38 Special and mild .357 magnum target loads. I use the same bullets for both. Revolver rounds should always have a firm roll crimp.

Looking through my recent order history this is what I have been using:

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/23336
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/72691
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/28488
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/23308
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...ose-box-of-500

[the86d]

Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector

...what I have been using:

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/23336
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/72691
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/28488
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/23308
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...ose-box-of-500

Thanks for dropping the links!

It'd be nice if I knew the GP100 was going to be my next purchase on Black Friday, when I did my last bulk Xtreme order... ... ...

.38 and .357 are going to be the only calibers I will be reloading single-stage (as I don't want to buy the ~$250 in XL 650 equipment for yet another caliber), and to make the lady feel better about reloading .25ACP via single-stage.

How hard do you all push say Xtreme-plated in a wheel-gun (in FPS)?

[Whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by ojisan

Lead bullets for .38
Jacketed bullets for .357

No point in loading lead bullets in strong .357 loads since the lead can't be driven as fast.

You should try shooting my LFN lead bullets in my 460 S&W at 100 yards. First time pistol shooters were connecting with steel plates couple weeks ago.

[Whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by the86d

I pick my girl from FFL jail this week, and only have 100 rd (50 .357, and 50 .38 Special) to start with, so I am on the fence on what I want to load.

The 1st .357 I shot when a coworker took me to the range were SWC's.
I am contemplating WC (Wad Cutter), SWC (Semi Wad Cutter) and such, as stated in the Title...

1) Great idea for clean-paper-punches, but what projectiles do you usually run for .38 Special and .357 with a moderate load (I am not looking to go over 1000FPS)?

2) Are diamond-hash-sided projectiles worse than plated for lands and grooves?:

b) Where would you crimp on these, and would they be a taper, or roll?

3) Nice-priced source for what you buy?

4) Do you personally use the same projectiles for .38 and .357 cartridges?

My 2 cents:

You load whatever is cheap, at least to start. If they don't do it for you, start looking at the more expensive options.

My favorite bullet type is LFN and WFN. Reason being, I like big meplat for hard hitting, but I also like a smooth transition to driving band to prevent shaving/spitting at the forcing cone, which is no good (well, less good) for 100 yard shooting. Thus, my preference is away from SWC or any shouldered bullet. LFN is the finest bullet design IMO.

Diamond hash is fine. Try them if you want. I like traditional lube grooves. The key to easy success is lots and lots of driving band. The more the better. You can still get great results with less, but it's just way easier to succeed with tons of rifling engagement.

My #1 preference for revolvers is a taper crimp to just remove the belling and no more. That includes heavy recoilers like 460S&W. However, I have 2000 rounds of data that shows this is OK. If I had any that jumped crimp, I would change up immediately. A light taper crimp if I had no crimp groove, or a light roll crimp if I had a crimp groove. If I had a crimp grove but was not using it, I'd go back to the taper crimp. There are no hard rules here. IMO you'll get better results with less crimp, but only if the bullets are not jumping. Lots of driving band also helps prevent bullet jump.

PERSONALLY, I don't shoot different cartridges in the same gun. Thus, I wouldn't, in your case, bother shooting 38's. I'd buy 1000 357 brass from starline, and that's just the way it would be. I'd use "38-like" loads for light loading and nice recoil, tailored to work in 357 cases. This could involve a new bullet, or not. Most likely not. These cases or bullets would get a green mark for ID.

You shoot my 460, you load it with 460's. If the primer has a green sharpie mark, the case is loaded full of trailboss and feels like a cowboy 45 colt. Otherwise, it's a regular (460) load.

[hermosabeach]

Op

Buy lead removal cloths now.... they are awesome to
- clean front of cylinder
- clean lead from forcing cones
- clean barrel


I hate any load with a small powder charge- I like loads that make spotting a double charge easy...

The 147/148 grain hollow base wad cutters are awesome

I load the projectile a bit out of the case, not flush, so spotting loaded ammo is easy.

With a light load, almost no crimp is needed as you have a lot of surface area for friction

700x is my preferred powder....

[hermosabeach]

For sale at local shops or Amazon

[ojisan]

Originally Posted by Whiterabbit

You should try shooting my LFN lead bullets in my 460 S&W at 100 yards. First time pistol shooters were connecting with steel plates couple weeks ago.

There's a guy I see at ASR from time to time.
He's got the .460 and .500, I've shot them both and helped sight them in too.
Nice guns, they hit hard at 100 yards.


.38 loads...I just use SWC lead bullets for plinking loads, unless making HD loads, in which case I use a premium jacketed bullet.
It's easy to tell which loads are the plinkers and which are for serious use by the bullet type.

.357 loads...I load these hot, else why bother with .357? I prefer jacketed.
Note that when I shot lots of .357, we were also using an IMI Timberwolf carbine with 18" barrel a lot.
Our .357 loads worked in our GP100s, Sec-Sixs and the Timberwolf just fine.
Timberwolf velocities were up to 2100 FPS with a 125 JHP, no lead bullets at these speeds.

Everybody has their preferences.

[Friesland]

Whiterabbit, "My favorite bullet type is LFN and WFN. Reason being, I like big meplat for hard hitting, but I also like a smooth transition to driving band to prevent shaving/spitting at the forcing cone, which is no good (well, less good) for 100 yard shooting. Thus, my preference is away from SWC or any shouldered bullet. LFN is the finest bullet design IMO."

Is my reading comprehension correct, the Lead Semi Wadcutter does have a small shoulder (cuts a cleaner hole in paper and game) and the Lead Flat (?) Point has greater accuracy without the small shoulder striking the forcing cone (and leaving a smaller hoe in paper and game)?


Thanks, also how do remove the lead build-up? Any thoughts regarding Bear Creek bollits and moly coated rifling?

[Friesland]

You use these on Stainless revolvers, how about real nice "Blued" revolvers?

Originally Posted by hermosabeach

For sale at local shops or Amazon

[Whiterabbit]

Originally Posted by Friesland

Whiterabbit, "My favorite bullet type is LFN and WFN. Reason being, I like big meplat for hard hitting, but I also like a smooth transition to driving band to prevent shaving/spitting at the forcing cone, which is no good (well, less good) for 100 yard shooting. Thus, my preference is away from SWC or any shouldered bullet. LFN is the finest bullet design IMO."

Is my reading comprehension correct, the Lead Semi Wadcutter does have a small shoulder (cuts a cleaner hole in paper and game) and the Lead Flat (?) Point has greater accuracy without the small shoulder striking the forcing cone (and leaving a smaller hoe in paper and game)?


Thanks, also how do remove the lead build-up? Any thoughts regarding Bear Creek bollits and moly coated rifling?

Right, but with caveats.

Couple things. First the "IMO" or "IME" is critical. Reason being, the Keith bullet is a SWC, and we can all safely assume The Man could shoot circles around all of us.

That notwithstanding, I never personally had much luck with SWC designs. The Wide Flat Nose gave me much better luck. The Long Flat Nose even better results at distance. The difference (WFN to LFN) is the meplat size, maybe >80% bullet diameter being the WFN, typically a shorter ogive too. But there's no rule here.

All I am saying is the only bullet I will accept for pistol has a smooth transition from meplat to driving band (and that allows for WC too, WC are great). However, YMMV, and lots of people have good luck with SWC and other shouldered bullets too. Not me...

I will make no comment on "making holes in paper or game", other than to make the suggestion that "meplat kills".

However, when you are putting a 35 caliber hole into your CXP2 game, meplat maybe less a factor, and @ 45 cal even less so. Big hole.

[9mmepiphany]

I guess I'm at the other end of the spectrum in reloading.

I'm a big believer in less mess, fewer variables, and getting it done efficiently some I can start putting bullets down range.

I mainly load both plated (Xtreme) and hi-tech coated cast lead (B&B) for competition. I've used 158gr RNFP, FP, and RN bullets.

A nice powder to start with, because you can use it for both .38Spl and .357Mag, is BE-86.

Using the Xtreme 158gr plated bullets, I'm loading 5.4gr for .38Spl and 7.3gr for .357Mag. Both loaded in Winchester cases and ignited with Federal SSP primers. Both roll crimped into the bullet cannelure

[stilly]

LOL@PC Gear- Only about $50 or less unless you want to get all nice with it...

[Whiterabbit]

I spent 35 bucks on my lyman 45 .....