|
Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#241
|
||||
|
||||
The way I reconcile that section with the law is that 1) FFL03+COE is not one of the exempt categories for the background check but 2) because they are exempt from having to purchase from a licensed ammo vendor they are exempt from the background check IF they use an alternate seller. Strictly speaking, and I don't doubt that they know the law, Michel et al. are not saying that FFL03+COE are exempt from the background check when buying from a licensed vendor. That last sentence sounds like that is what they are saying but they cite no law so I think it is just a case of poor wording.
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#242
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#243
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
http://cc.readytalk.com/play?id=2u3524 |
#244
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Not sure any of this will matter if vendors like TargetSportsUSA don't ship direct anymore. If that is the case, I can purchase from them (with the discount price) have it shipped to an FFL and pay the $1 background plus any handling fees. OR, start reloading Last edited by NorthBay Shooter; 06-26-2019 at 4:24 PM.. |
#245
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#247
|
||||
|
||||
Does anybody have the link to an updated chart of which vendors are shipping ammo to CA FFL03 and COE holders?
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
|
#248
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1406001 |
#249
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sorry I am in mobile and my search didn’t pull it up for some reason. Thank you.
__________________
Quote:
Quote:
|
#250
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
|
#252
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
ETA: and your ragging on them (along with others) had a direct impact.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 07-02-2019 at 8:55 PM.. |
#253
|
|||
|
|||
So I'm picking up a C&R eligible firearm from a Cal Gunner tomorrow,but he's nervous and wants a DROS. Doesn't bother me any, there shouldn't be a wait anyway. The FFL might refuse to do it,but other than that is there a different procedure if I DROS? Should I not put it in my book? Do I still file with CFARS and pay the $19?
|
#254
|
||||
|
||||
C&R 03-FFL + COE Privileges in 2019 California
Quote:
*** Correction as pointed out by Hinnerk If you DROS, Don’t file with CFARS. The DROS does this reporting for you. You DO however have to record any C&R firearms bought while licensed as an FFL03 in your bound book. Last edited by awiner; 07-12-2019 at 10:27 PM.. |
#255
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#256
|
|||
|
|||
Does the 'Personal Firearms Record' (P 3312.8 - revised August 2013) that came with my packet as a new '03 suffice as a 'bound book'? It's a slim cardboard thingy that is arguably four pages. It's similar in size to a 5x7 photograph.
I don't feel like spending $15-$30 or more for a commercial one. I guess if the one in the attachment does not suffice a writing tablet that is certainly bound that we had in grade school should suffice. Nevertheless, I see no reference to the bound book. Requirement AFAIK is to keep an 'Acquisition and Disposition' (A&D) record. 18 USC 923(g)(2); 27 CFR 478.125(f). Haven't read those citations, but I received them from a sort of FAQ's re collectors on the ATF site. Later: I looked at 18 USC 923(g)(2) and it DOES mention a 'bound volume'. Now to look at the reg: For collectors, it does mention maintaining a 'bound form', with certain exceptions. It's quite detailed. I don't know why ATF sent the Personal Firearms Record to me as it only adds to the confusion. Perhaps it was sent to give a template example, or for other reasons. Last edited by savoirrangefaire; 07-15-2019 at 11:22 AM.. |
#257
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I have not looked closely at the document you posted due to the device I am using, but
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein Last edited by kemasa; 07-15-2019 at 12:21 PM.. |
#258
|
|||
|
|||
Kemasa-
Please review my revised post, above, where I did review those citations. 'Bound volume' in the code, 'Bound form' in the reg. But there is a separate sub-section (h) re maintaining 'alternate records' in the reg, but one has to 'apply' for authorization in advance, but it may apply where one is also buying or selling AP ammo. It's confusing. 'Bound volume' for me, no question. The controlling word is 'bound' in both. What a PITA dealing with all this time-consuming c**p. But Thank God (or Google) for the internet. Last edited by savoirrangefaire; 07-15-2019 at 11:32 AM.. |
#259
|
||||
|
||||
Bound Book
Quote:
Personal Firearms Record
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#261
|
||||
|
||||
I made my own bound book using printed sheets and had them spiral bound at Kinko's.
The purpose of the C&R bound book is to comply with federal law and regulations and should only include the C&R firearms you acquired or sold/transferred while licensed. Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#262
|
||||
|
||||
C&R 03-FFL + COE Privileges in 2019 California
From the ATF webpage as linked by dvrjon
What is a "bound book"? The firearms acquisition and disposition (A&D) record, also known as a “bound book”, is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose–leaf pages which must be maintained at the business premises. The format must follow that prescribed in the regulations and the pages must be numbered consecutively. [18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(A); 27 CFR 478.121 and 478.125] |
#263
|
||||
|
||||
Please also note that non-C&R firearms (antique or modern non-C&R) do not get entered into your C&R bound book nor do your C&R firearms acquired before you were licensed except when you dispose them while you are licensed.
Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk |
#264
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Hopefully this will work, this is an example bound book for Word that I posted before. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...8&d=1558285025
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#265
|
||||
|
||||
There is no requirement that it be put in a binder or anything else. Note is says "an orderly arrangement of loose–leaf pages".
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#266
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Last edited by savoirrangefaire; 07-15-2019 at 12:39 PM.. |
#267
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#268
|
||||
|
||||
Not at all as there is an important word there "OR"
Quote:
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#269
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
See: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/or Addendum: I see that Kemasa posted essentially the same thing while I was fetching the link from Merriam-Webster for you. Kemasa is right.
__________________
Anchors Aweigh Last edited by Mayor McRifle; 07-15-2019 at 12:38 PM.. |
#270
|
|||
|
|||
An orderly arrangement of loose-leaf pages, which are removable, contradicts the 'bound book' common interpretation as to what is a 'bound book' and is oxymoronic. They should not use the words 'bound book' at all. And I do understand what 'or' means. The fact we're arguing about this just exemplifies how poorly descriptive the categorization may be.
That one fellow who went to Kinko's to bind the pages understands that of which I speak. Last edited by savoirrangefaire; 07-15-2019 at 12:53 PM.. |
#271
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
It is the A&D records.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#272
|
|||
|
|||
Kind of amusing, above, in bold.
|
#273
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#274
|
|||
|
|||
This is a waste of time. I guess that 'rocks aren't hard' makes sense.
Last edited by savoirrangefaire; 07-15-2019 at 1:50 PM.. Reason: Unsubscribing from the thread. Thanks, much useful information. |
#275
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Those of us who registered AW did benefit in some ways. |
#276
|
|||
|
|||
This is why [ one reason ] I decided not to get a 03 .
FYI - I have 3 copies of reloading [ powder , bullet , - all the info ] another set for my guns and another for press parts . These are for insurance proposes , general info and a copy is in the cloud . I also have a page for each nephew / niece and record their serial # caliber , when and where bought . I also keep track of things like grips , scopes , sights and where I bought them from . If you don't keep track of all that stuff - your problem . If you want to start - Costco sells 1/2 inch notebooks either 6 or 10 at a time . They also sell like 300 [ maybe more ] sheet protectors . I buy my paper at kink's / fed ex - they sell thicker paper . You can get index tabs at wall mart . I use Excel and word .
__________________
life member - CRPA and NRA All ways listen - after you can say I new that |
#277
|
||||
|
||||
Ok, so from now on, you can not refer to an automobile as a car, it is just plain wrong as you need to the correct term.
As well, you must always refer to the "bound book", a common name which most people understand what exactly it is, as "The firearms acquisition and disposition record", or since you want to be accurate, you need to always say "The firearms acquisition and disposition record which is a permanently bound book or an orderly arrangement of loose–leaf pages which must be maintained at the business premises" Sorry, you find it amusing that the term, which is just a name, isn't quite what you demand that it be.
__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#278
|
||||
|
||||
__________________
F@$% Joe Biden Quote:
|
#280
|
||||
|
||||
Hadn't checked the thread in a while.
See a lot of new activity. Wonder "Maybe there's been some new revelations in the 03COE world". Get here and find this discussion: |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|