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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun! |
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#1
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Can you still buy a +50 yr old lever action w/ no DROS/FFL PP?
Looking at buying a lever action from 50’s. PP purchase from friend of a friend- he passed away & wife wants it gone but legal. Not registered. What’s the protocol here to be legal? He has 2 Lever & a bolt too. Bunch of centerfire stuff too- all old. What are the laws on +50 year old stuff?
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#2
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Must be transferred through an FFL, no if's and's or but's.
C&R FFL with a COE can purchase FTF I believe, if they are verifiably over 50+ years old...
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“Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpation” - James Madison, 1788 "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin "Don't worry scro!" - Dr. Lexus |
#5
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EDIT "It changed on 01-01-2014." - Quiet Get your paperwork. Start collecting. I just got an SKS in my mailbox. Totally worth it. For now.
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Last edited by j-shot; 07-13-2016 at 7:50 AM.. |
#6
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NRA Life Member Mr. President, I can't take any more winning! Make it stop Mr. President. The winning is YUGGEEEE! "If you've got a problem with the US, you better make sure it's not a military problem." SSgt Leslie Edwards |
#7
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Yes, I had to sign.
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#8
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It changed on 01-01-2014.
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#11
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#12
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If it's a C&R and it's not registered, they would never know about it, you could have bought the same rifle 25 years ago without paper work, they have no way of knowing, it's kind of like your word against theirs, since it's between friends.
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#13
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However, they will check to see if it's been reported stolen, and if it was reported as lost or stolen during the time you claim to have owned it, that could present some problems for you.
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Anchors Aweigh |
#14
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Even with the FFL03 + COE, you still have to register C&R long guns in California. With an FFL03 + COE, it's a little cheaper and a little more convenient but the end result, registration, is the same. I would not advocate what omega posted about, breaking the law is breaking the law.
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NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer Last edited by Capybara; 07-13-2016 at 10:07 AM.. |
#16
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What about intra-familiar transfers? Is there still an exemption for grandparent-grandchild and parent-child transfers?
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#17
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Intra-familial transfers of firearms between immediate family members that are non-residents of CA must be done through a FFL dealer. This is to comply with Federal transfer laws. |
#18
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#19
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Guns she has are from 50’s. Not stolen, & never registered & beautiful condition- well cared for. They were his dad’s guns- also passed away. Do these guns even have a serial number? One is a Savage, one a Browning & another Winchester. There are others. All early to mid 50’s, all bought new by family (his dad). If they have no serial numbers- what do you have to do to register them?
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#20
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Yes, this is a C&R issue, please don't tell me "wrong forum."
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YOU NEED A GUN TRUST. TLCGunTrust@gmail.com Nothing I post here constitutes legal advice, nor can it establish an attorney/client relationship. |
#21
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The form registers the firearms to the person submitting the form. (CA DOJ BOF inputs the data into CLETS-AFS). The process is the same for handguns and long guns. Within 2-64 weeks of submitting the form, CA DOJ BOF will mail back an acknowledgment letter regarding the intra-familial transfer. |
#22
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This may change depending on if AB857 becomes law. (AB857 is currently on CA Governor Brown's desk for him to sign or veto)
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 07-13-2016 at 5:09 PM.. |
#24
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If a person has rifles that date back to the 50's and 60's that have been in the family all that time and were brought into California in the early 60's are they supposed to have been "registered" or anything done as long as they are not sold? I don't know if they are c and r or just old guns that he has in his closet but he's owned them since he was young and just never did anything with them...I know if I (or someone else) were to buy them or have them gifted they would have to go through the FFL process..but just "having" them all this time?
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#25
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I think your fine, inter-familial requires a minimum age but no DROS or paperwork. There is no registration in CA. You can register if you want but there is no requirement.
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#26
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Isn't there a specific exemption in AB857 for firearms manufactured before serial numbers were required?
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#27
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*Needs to be immediate family. [PC 27875(a)(2)] *Minimum age 18. [PC 27875(a)(5)] *Need to have a FSC or exemption to FSC. [PC 27875(a)(4)] *Registration is mandatory. [PC 27875(a)(3)] Penal Code 27875 (a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met: (1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730. (2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family. (3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department. (4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used. (5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older. |
#28
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I was under the impression that older than 2014 only the first two requirements of immediate family and 18 years old was needed? |
#30
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01-01-2014 = Intra-familial transfers of longs are required to be registered. If the firearm* was transferred before the starting date, then it did not need to be registered. *Handguns transferred before 12-31-1992. *Long guns transferred before 12-31-2013. |
#32
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Finally went by to check them out. She wants to sell them as a lot so I’m probably out now. I was hoping to cherry pick one from the group. It’s a bigger collection than I thought. I counted 16 rifles & 5 wheel guns but she said there is more.
Her husband wasn’t much on guns & rarely shot any of them. His dad was the enthusiast. His dad taught him how to clean & maintain them though & that he did. Most of the wood stocks are simply stunning- many with no nicks, damage or wear. Many look brand new. They all have socks & are inside gun bags. All purchased new in California back in the day. They have lived here their entire lives. She’s selling the house & moving out of state. They have 2 kids that are Democrat anti gun types- she’s moving to be closer to them. Last edited by Steves32; 07-14-2016 at 6:39 AM.. |
#34
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Anything manufactured after Jan 1 1899 requires an FFL transfer. A C&R FFL holder IS an FFL (Type 03) and satisfies the requirement provided he/she also has a California Certificate of Eligibility from the CA DOJ.
I have a document I provide to explain this in a private party situation but the pertinent items are: Quote:
What is interesting (to say it lightly) is the recent legislation that requires us to stamp non-serialed firearms with a serial number, effectively ruining their value. Fortunately, most Winchesters, Savages, Marlins, etc have serials, but not all.
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NRA Lifetime Member Winchester Arms Collectors Association Member Cody Firearms Museum Member Last edited by supergimp; 07-31-2016 at 4:49 PM.. |
#35
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AB857 does not apply to firearms made before 1968
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Never initiate force against another. That should be the underlying principle of your life. But should someone do violence to you, retaliate without hesitation, without reservation, without quarter, until you are sure that he will never wish to harm - or never be capable of harming - you or yours again. - from THE SECOND BOOK OF KYFHO (Revised Eastern Sect Edition) |
#36
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Well, I'll be damned if you're right. I must have missed that, or was reading an unamended earlier version somewhere. Thanks for clarification.
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#37
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In fact, when I left CA for ID in 2002, a guy I worked with noted his grandpa had passed on and left grandma with 10 or so rifles. She wanted to sell them all. Grandson picked a 1917, an SMLE, and a single shot .22 he learned to shoot with. I bought the remaining 7...2 Remington autos in .308, 2 Remington pumps in .270 and .257 Roberts , an early 10/22 with walnut stock, a baby Browning, and an Ithaca 37. I recorded all but the Ruger in my bound book, loaded them in the 'burb, and headed to Idaho. How you proceed is up to you. Calguns.net recommends you comply with California's weapons laws. Quote:
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Since they are "antiques" by law, not C&R's.
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran Last edited by -hanko; 07-31-2016 at 9:42 PM.. |
#38
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Long guns only, unless purchased out of state.
We can still buy handguns out of state and bring them back. All in-state handgun transfers have to go through an 01FFL.
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- Rich |
#39
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registered, if registered
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#40
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The logic escapes me.
I am aware of transfers between good friends...sometimes a trade, sometimes a purchase or sale. I've never asked but more than a few have suggested perhaps maybe iirc than a licensee was not involved. I'd conclude it's not a rarity in California.
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
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