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  #1  
Old 07-12-2016, 6:25 AM
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Default Can you still buy a +50 yr old lever action w/ no DROS/FFL PP?

Looking at buying a lever action from 50’s. PP purchase from friend of a friend- he passed away & wife wants it gone but legal. Not registered. What’s the protocol here to be legal? He has 2 Lever & a bolt too. Bunch of centerfire stuff too- all old. What are the laws on +50 year old stuff?
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2016, 6:37 AM
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Must be transferred through an FFL, no if's and's or but's.


C&R FFL with a COE can purchase FTF I believe, if they are verifiably over 50+ years old...
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2016, 7:00 AM
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Damn. Ok.
I thought the old stuff was still ok.
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  #4  
Old 07-12-2016, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
Damn. Ok.
I thought the old stuff was still ok.
And don't forget, you need a Firearm Safety Certificate (FSC) for the PPT.
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  #5  
Old 07-12-2016, 7:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
Damn. Ok.
I thought the old stuff was still ok.
Changed at the beginning of this year I believe. Added COE to FFL03.

EDIT "It changed on 01-01-2014." - Quiet

Get your paperwork. Start collecting. I just got an SKS in my mailbox.

Totally worth it. For now.
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2016, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by j-shot View Post
Changed at the beginning of this year I believe. Added COE to FFL03.

Get your paperwork. Start collecting. I just got an SKS in my mailbox.

Totally worth it. For now.
Dang, you must have one huge mailbox. They usually bring it to my door.

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  #7  
Old 07-12-2016, 9:09 AM
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Dang, you must have one huge mailbox. They usually bring it to my door.

Yes, I had to sign.
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2016, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by j-shot View Post
Changed at the beginning of this year I believe. Added COE to FFL03.
It changed on 01-01-2014.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2016, 8:32 PM
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Can't COE/FFL03 still buy and then self register with DOJ?
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2016, 8:39 PM
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CAN you? YES.
SHOULD you? Probably not.
Jon
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  #11  
Old 07-13-2016, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It changed on 01-01-2014.
Thank you I will change my post
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  #12  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:16 AM
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If it's a C&R and it's not registered, they would never know about it, you could have bought the same rifle 25 years ago without paper work, they have no way of knowing, it's kind of like your word against theirs, since it's between friends.
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:19 AM
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If it's a C&R and it's not registered, they would never know about it, you could have bought the same rifle 25 years ago without paper work, they have no way of knowing, it's kind of like your word against theirs, since it's between friends.
However, they will check to see if it's been reported stolen, and if it was reported as lost or stolen during the time you claim to have owned it, that could present some problems for you.
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  #14  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:20 AM
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Even with the FFL03 + COE, you still have to register C&R long guns in California. With an FFL03 + COE, it's a little cheaper and a little more convenient but the end result, registration, is the same. I would not advocate what omega posted about, breaking the law is breaking the law.
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  #15  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:39 AM
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if your a brig bunny listen to omega
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  #16  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:51 AM
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What about intra-familiar transfers? Is there still an exemption for grandparent-grandchild and parent-child transfers?
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I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
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  #17  
Old 07-13-2016, 2:09 PM
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What about intra-familiar transfers? Is there still an exemption for grandparent-grandchild and parent-child transfers?
Intra-familial transfers of firearms between immediate (grandparent-parent-child-grandchild) family members that are CA residents are exempt from needing to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer. Within 30 days of the intra-familial transfer, the family member receiving the firearm must report it to CA DOJ BOF.

Intra-familial transfers of firearms between immediate family members that are non-residents of CA must be done through a FFL dealer. This is to comply with Federal transfer laws.
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  #18  
Old 07-13-2016, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Intra-familial transfers of firearms between immediate (grandparent-parent-child-grandchild) family members that are CA residents are exempt from needing to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer. Within 30 days of the intra-familial transfer, the family member receiving the firearm must report it to CA DOJ BOF.

Intra-familial transfers of firearms between immediate family members that are non-residents of CA must be done through a FFL dealer. This is to comply with Federal transfer laws.
How does the CADOJ look at that with registered firearms? Does the new owner just send in the volreg? And are the regulations for handguns the same as long guns?
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I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
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Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
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  #19  
Old 07-13-2016, 3:36 PM
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Guns she has are from 50’s. Not stolen, & never registered & beautiful condition- well cared for. They were his dad’s guns- also passed away. Do these guns even have a serial number? One is a Savage, one a Browning & another Winchester. There are others. All early to mid 50’s, all bought new by family (his dad). If they have no serial numbers- what do you have to do to register them?
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  #20  
Old 07-13-2016, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
If they have no serial numbers- what do you have to do to register them?
Be sure to send Gov. Brown a letter asking him to veto AB857. If he doesn't, you'd have to apply for a serial number retroactively, the application of which will diminish the collectors value.

Yes, this is a C&R issue, please don't tell me "wrong forum."
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  #21  
Old 07-13-2016, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
How does the CADOJ look at that with registered firearms? Does the new owner just send in the volreg? And are the regulations for handguns the same as long guns?
The new owner (person who received the firearms) submits a completed Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction.

The form registers the firearms to the person submitting the form.
(CA DOJ BOF inputs the data into CLETS-AFS).

The process is the same for handguns and long guns.

Within 2-64 weeks of submitting the form, CA DOJ BOF will mail back an acknowledgment letter regarding the intra-familial transfer.
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  #22  
Old 07-13-2016, 5:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
Guns she has are from 50’s. Not stolen, & never registered & beautiful condition- well cared for. They were his dad’s guns- also passed away. Do these guns even have a serial number? One is a Savage, one a Browning & another Winchester. There are others. All early to mid 50’s, all bought new by family (his dad). If they have no serial numbers- what do you have to do to register them?
"No Serial Number" has worked in the past.

This may change depending on if AB857 becomes law.
(AB857 is currently on CA Governor Brown's desk for him to sign or veto)
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Last edited by Quiet; 07-13-2016 at 5:09 PM..
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  #23  
Old 07-13-2016, 6:23 PM
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1898 and older need nothing, no FFL, no DROS.
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Old 07-13-2016, 6:33 PM
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If a person has rifles that date back to the 50's and 60's that have been in the family all that time and were brought into California in the early 60's are they supposed to have been "registered" or anything done as long as they are not sold? I don't know if they are c and r or just old guns that he has in his closet but he's owned them since he was young and just never did anything with them...I know if I (or someone else) were to buy them or have them gifted they would have to go through the FFL process..but just "having" them all this time?
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Old 07-13-2016, 6:38 PM
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I think your fine, inter-familial requires a minimum age but no DROS or paperwork. There is no registration in CA. You can register if you want but there is no requirement.
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Old 07-13-2016, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
"No Serial Number" has worked in the past.

This may change depending on if AB857 becomes law.
(AB857 is currently on CA Governor Brown's desk for him to sign or veto)
Isn't there a specific exemption in AB857 for firearms manufactured before serial numbers were required?
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My neighbors think I'm a construction worker named Bruce.

Little do they know that's just my stripper outfit and name.
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Originally Posted by ChopperX View Post
I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff L View Post
Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
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  #27  
Old 07-13-2016, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I think your fine, inter-familial requires a minimum age but no DROS or paperwork. There is no registration in CA. You can register if you want but there is no requirement.
Starting 01-01-2014...
*Needs to be immediate family. [PC 27875(a)(2)]
*Minimum age 18. [PC 27875(a)(5)]
*Need to have a FSC or exemption to FSC. [PC 27875(a)(4)]
*Registration is mandatory. [PC 27875(a)(3)]



Penal Code 27875
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2016, 7:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Starting 01-01-2014...
*Needs to be immediate family. [PC 27875(a)(2)]
*Minimum age 18. [PC 27875(a)(5)]
*Need to have a FSC or exemption to FSC. [PC 27875(a)(4)]
*Registration is mandatory. [PC 27875(a)(3)]

But does that mean that everything that happened before 2014 (i.e. dad left my a handgun in the 90's, etc) fall under that requirement? Or does it mean that any transfer from family after that 2014 date must be registered?

I was under the impression that older than 2014 only the first two requirements of immediate family and 18 years old was needed?
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Old 07-13-2016, 7:42 PM
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Any transfer after 1-1-14 will require the firearms to be registered
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Old 07-13-2016, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
But does that mean that everything that happened before 2014 (i.e. dad left my a handgun in the 90's, etc) fall under that requirement? Or does it mean that any transfer from family after that 2014 date must be registered?

I was under the impression that older than 2014 only the first two requirements of immediate family and 18 years old was needed?
01-01-1993 = Intra-familial transfers of handguns are required to be registered.
01-01-2014 = Intra-familial transfers of longs are required to be registered.

If the firearm* was transferred before the starting date, then it did not need to be registered.
*Handguns transferred before 12-31-1992.
*Long guns transferred before 12-31-2013.
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  #31  
Old 07-13-2016, 8:49 PM
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Damn. Ok.
I thought the old stuff was still ok.
Was until 1/2014.

No more FTF on 50 and older long-guns.

.
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Old 07-14-2016, 6:35 AM
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Finally went by to check them out. She wants to sell them as a lot so I’m probably out now. I was hoping to cherry pick one from the group. It’s a bigger collection than I thought. I counted 16 rifles & 5 wheel guns but she said there is more.
Her husband wasn’t much on guns & rarely shot any of them. His dad was the enthusiast. His dad taught him how to clean & maintain them though & that he did. Most of the wood stocks are simply stunning- many with no nicks, damage or wear. Many look brand new. They all have socks & are inside gun bags. All purchased new in California back in the day. They have lived here their entire lives. She’s selling the house & moving out of state. They have 2 kids that are Democrat anti gun types- she’s moving to be closer to them.

Last edited by Steves32; 07-14-2016 at 6:39 AM..
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2016, 2:13 PM
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Damn. Ok.
I thought the old stuff was still ok.
mfg prior to Jan 1, 1899 (antique) is now the "old stuff is ok" category in CA
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Old 07-31-2016, 4:46 PM
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Anything manufactured after Jan 1 1899 requires an FFL transfer. A C&R FFL holder IS an FFL (Type 03) and satisfies the requirement provided he/she also has a California Certificate of Eligibility from the CA DOJ.

I have a document I provide to explain this in a private party situation but the pertinent items are:

Quote:
27966. Commencing January 1, 2014, if all of the following
requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the
sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in
Section 16730.
(b) The firearm is not a handgun.
(c) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11
of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(d) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of
eligibility
issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector
pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the
regulations issued thereto.
(f) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person
to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver
in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes
information concerning the individual taking possession of the
firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of
the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete
pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.
If the seller is hesitant, I offer to fill out the BOF961 form with them and stamp it and mail it in their presence, or record the transfer online in CRIS in their presence. I also provide copies of my FFL and COE.

What is interesting (to say it lightly) is the recent legislation that requires us to stamp non-serialed firearms with a serial number, effectively ruining their value. Fortunately, most Winchesters, Savages, Marlins, etc have serials, but not all.

Last edited by supergimp; 07-31-2016 at 4:49 PM..
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  #35  
Old 07-31-2016, 4:55 PM
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What is interesting (to say it lightly) is the recent legislation that requires us to stamp non-serialed firearms with a serial number, effectively ruining their value. Fortunately, most Winchesters, Savages, Marlins, etc have serials, but not all.
AB857 does not apply to firearms made before 1968
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  #36  
Old 07-31-2016, 4:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
AB857 does not apply to firearms made before 1968
Well, I'll be damned if you're right. I must have missed that, or was reading an unamended earlier version somewhere. Thanks for clarification.

Quote:
29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:
(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.
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  #37  
Old 07-31-2016, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by omega View Post
If it's a C&R and it's not registered, they would never know about it, you could have bought the same rifle 25 years ago without paper work, they have no way of knowing, it's kind of like your word against theirs, since it's between friends.
Correct. If seller was a "good friend" of mine, I know how I would proceed.

In fact, when I left CA for ID in 2002, a guy I worked with noted his grandpa had passed on and left grandma with 10 or so rifles. She wanted to sell them all.
Grandson picked a 1917, an SMLE, and a single shot .22 he learned to shoot with.

I bought the remaining 7...2 Remington autos in .308, 2 Remington pumps in .270 and .257 Roberts , an early 10/22 with walnut stock, a baby Browning, and an Ithaca 37. I recorded all but the Ruger in my bound book, loaded them in the 'burb, and headed to Idaho.

How you proceed is up to you. Calguns.net recommends you comply with California's weapons laws.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
What about intra-familiar transfers? Is there still an exemption for grandparent-grandchild and parent-child transfers?
A well-played hijack. Good work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
Guns she has are from 50’s. Not stolen, & never registered & beautiful condition- well cared for. They were his dad’s guns- also passed away. Do these guns even have a serial number? One is a Savage, one a Browning & another Winchester. There are others. All early to mid 50’s, all bought new by family (his dad). If they have no serial numbers- what do you have to do to register them?
See comment above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
1898 and older need nothing, no FFL, no DROS.
Since they are "antiques" by law, not C&R's.
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Last edited by -hanko; 07-31-2016 at 9:42 PM..
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  #38  
Old 07-31-2016, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Can't COE/FFL03 still buy and then self register with DOJ?
Long guns only, unless purchased out of state.

We can still buy handguns out of state and bring them back.
All in-state handgun transfers have to go through an 01FFL.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 07-31-2016, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steves32 View Post
Looking at buying a lever action from 50’s. PP purchase from friend of a friend- he passed away & wife wants it gone but legal. Not registered. What’s the protocol here to be legal? He has 2 Lever & a bolt too. Bunch of centerfire stuff too- all old. What are the laws on +50 year old stuff?
Why would anybody register a gun that never been registered.
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Old 07-31-2016, 9:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGuy View Post
Why would anybody register a gun that never been registered.
The logic escapes me.

I am aware of transfers between good friends...sometimes a trade, sometimes a purchase or sale. I've never asked but more than a few have suggested perhaps maybe iirc than a licensee was not involved. I'd conclude it's not a rarity in California.
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