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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 88 8.33%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 696 65.85%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 24 2.27%
I paid too much for my Membership! 47 4.45%
They will go out of business this year! 31 2.93%
Don't want anything to do with them! 171 16.18%
Voters: 1057. You may not vote on this poll

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  #601  
Old 12-20-2012, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAShooter View Post
Business cards make great practice targets. Best of all, they are available free at lots of places. If you get used to shooting business cards, the head box seems huge.
Hmmm. I like that. Would make for a nice "ragged hole" drill out past 7m. Then a 3x5 card out to 15m. I don't think even the Handgun Combat Master test does OC (Ocular-Cranial cavity) shots past 15m.

As for presentation, remember, "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!"
  #602  
Old 12-20-2012, 2:57 PM
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  #603  
Old 12-20-2012, 3:10 PM
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That video is awesome. did you make it? Now, how the F am I going to sell my diamond/alaska for $250 if your video becomes even more popular?
  #604  
Old 12-20-2012, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
That is some of the funniest video I have seen in a long time!!! So true!
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  #605  
Old 12-21-2012, 7:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent.5 View Post
That video is awesome. did you make it? Now, how the F am I going to sell my diamond/alaska for $250 if your video becomes even more popular?
No not mine. I've watched it about five times now and have ROFL each time!
  #606  
Old 12-21-2012, 9:44 AM
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Great video, so well thought out.
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  #607  
Old 12-21-2012, 9:57 AM
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OMG! that's funny, I don't care who you are, that's funny. Sadly it has more truth in it than I'd like to be reminded of, but all in all it's a keeper.
Is this available on youtube? I've go to get this to my other FS friends.
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  #608  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MossbergMan View Post
OMG! that's funny, I don't care who you are, that's funny. Sadly it has more truth in it than I'd like to be reminded of, but all in all it's a keeper.
Is this available on youtube? I've go to get this to my other FS friends.

Here is the youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXAPu...layer_embedded
  #609  
Old 12-21-2012, 4:29 PM
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Thanks passed it on to some other members not on the forum
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  #610  
Old 12-21-2012, 5:08 PM
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My wife thought it was great!
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  #611  
Old 12-23-2012, 11:27 AM
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Any NorCal Calgunners going out to the Advanced Integrated Handgun Class January 7th? Anyone interested in carpooling out there. I just got back from there and with the holidays and all, my training funds are low.
  #612  
Old 12-23-2012, 12:08 PM
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Good luck in Integrated Handgun. Practice doing everything support hand NOW, will make class easier.
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  #613  
Old 12-23-2012, 4:20 PM
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Membership Type: Diamond
Membership Date: 2011
Courses Taken: 2 Day Rifle 2 Day Handgun
Next Course: 4 Day Rifle and 4 Day Handgun when I can get the time off work
Comments: Good courses for the beginner or intermediate user. Also really drives home the fundamentals.

I would avoid the summer months all together as it is just plain miserable otherwise. Bring water and semi loose fitting long sleeve shirts, a good hat, sun glasses, cargo pants of some sort, also a couple multi vitamins a day could help out as well. Me and the wife enjoyed the boxed lunches they provide but budget for everything.

For the Handgun course a couple of magazines, a good belt to hold the holstered gun, and at least 300 rounds. The more you bring the more you can shoot/practice with at the end of the day when there is time.

For the rifle course it would be a good idea to bring a Garand, M14, or an AR-15. Make sure to bring a good set of iron sights that has the regular stoner designed adjustments on it as the instructors will teach sighting in based on that. A two point at minimum rifle sling and a couple of magazines and that is pretty much it. Stay away from powered optics above 4x as it is way overkill otherwise since your only shooting to 200 yards on the second day for a little while. Otherwise your shooting mostly inside 25 yards. Oh and at least 300 rounds. Again the more you bring the more you can practice with at the end of the day if time permits.

Also the "obstacle" course is fun and try not to ruin the experience by trying to get a good layout of the target area otherwise whats the point if you know where the targets are from.

If for some reason you don't bring enough ammo you can buy some either at Frontsight or at a vendor parked on the entrance road.
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.
  #614  
Old 12-27-2012, 11:33 PM
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Here are the Facebook groups and the main page for Front Sight

Front Sight First Family - Closed Group -need to be approved my the moderator

Front Sight - Open Group - immediate access

Ambassadors of Front Sight Closed Group - need to be approved my the moderator

Front Sight Main Page
  #615  
Old 12-30-2012, 4:45 AM
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Ambassador 2012
2X 4 day Handgun
2013 will be a blast we have 5 courses to take 15+ members all from San Diego Area.

Shoots: 4.5 Springfield XD 9MM
5 Glock 17 ZEV
  #616  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:02 PM
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Been twice, 1x 4 day handgun, 1x 2 day skill builder. graduated both times. also found out my old pistol, while being a great gun technically and function-wise, just wasn't the gun for me.

i had just started shooting handguns seriously for a few months, not even 1k rounds through my pistol yet at the time before i went to the courses. no prior training. oddly enough, i don't feel like i learned anything about shooting in and of itself (i actually shot worse using their techniques and weaver, everything always felt "funny"), but i'm so happy i went and learned about things related to shooting (ie proper way to reload, what to do during a malfunction vs just racking the slide like i always did before, ethics, use of force, why things are the way they are, etc). more importantly it was also a safe environment to do more than just punch paper in a easy and relaxed setting (the whole point of training imo), practice all of the skills being taught, and firing from a holster as most ranges in and around OC do not allow this. everything was run professionally, the instructors were good, and again, it felt safe. i did not find the courses to be too exhausting but having to wake up early every morning killed me at the time.

On a different note, based on feedback from the instructors and coaches/partners, my slowest thing is always me reacting to the target flipping around. Is there an exercise, drill, or anything someone can do to improve their reaction times? mine are just a bit slow compared to the average person (tested). I barely missed DG both times and both times it was b/c I was just a little bit slow coming up for 2 or 3 of my shots, rushed them, and missed. Slowing down to focus on the shots was not an option either as the targets were already starting to flip back on the second shot in each of those incidents... ended up cutting several targets in half.

also, is it just me, or does anyone else shoot way worse out there than they do when they go shooting otherwise? at home shooting a 1 or 1.5 inch group at 10 yards a shot a second (ie what is allowed at most ranges i visit) is totally doable for me, without having to try too hard. then i get out there and i feel like im trying really hard just to stay on the paper, much less hit the thorastic or head box, even when its just during basic instruction.

Last edited by penguinofsleep; 12-30-2012 at 10:16 PM..
  #617  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:50 PM
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Penguin- I feel like the "time pressure" is just a stress. It's not relaxed. My solution is to work with the surefire app on my phone. Has a random shot timer. I use that during dry practice and it seems to help. A lot.


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  #618  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:02 PM
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Membership Type: Ambassador
Membership Date: 2012
Courses Taken: 4DDH
Next Course: 4DPR

Also in San Diego Area.

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  #619  
Old 12-31-2012, 5:53 AM
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Penguin - are you waiting for the target to be fully turned before starting your draw? As soon as it moves, you should be moving. Fast people will break the first shot before the target is completely turned.
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  #620  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:28 AM
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Any time pressure is self inflicted artifical stress. If you are thinking of the goal (beat the timer) you will fail. If you focus on the TASKS required to a hit, you will accomplish your goal without effort.
think about the time you are not thinking of the tasks required to do it. Focusing on the goal is likely to result in skipped or forgotten tasks and you will not achieve your intended goal. focus on each task in sequence....the goal just happens, as if by magic Just ask anyone attempting the Master test.
Smooth is fast, fast is jerky and produces unnecessary movement. Eliminate unnecessary movement and you will have a sub-second presentation.
Just about everyone I know that fails to DG the BASIC 4 day test complains about the speed required. The times are fine, you are just focusing on the wrong things. If you're thinking of the clock (timer) you're NOT thinking of the tasks required to beat that time.
Draw smoothly (it will be quick) shoot accurately, that's all there is to it.
Proper equipment and equipment placement is important. If you're shooting a Hi-Point from a nylon "one size fits most" holster that's too far forward or back, you're defeating yourself. There is a reason Glocks, XDs, M&Ps and 1911s and kydex equipment are the predominate equipment used at FS. They work, they're eronomic (each of us determines this factor), reliable and smooth.
Practice makes permenant.....Perfect practice makes prefect.
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  #621  
Old 12-31-2012, 8:29 PM
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thanks for all the feedback guys. ill definitely look into the surefire app as well. definitely agree that i'm still the weak link here and it probably is mostly psychological. but i figure getting faster on the draw (or just used to doing so) won't hurt either. i did notice that most of my good pairs came when things came together in my mind. however, there were some instances where everything came together mentally but the shots didn't.

as for practice at home, i don't practice "running the test" often as "passing" a class wasn't the main reason for me going. however, in the little "running the test" i have done, ive noticed that everything is way smoother/easier for me now with my CZ75B (used cocked and locked like a 1911, not DA/SA) than before when i had a FN FNP (DA/SA only) or tried everything with my USP. hopefully this will help too so i can take some of the more "advanced courses" if i get a chance to go back a few more times. however, im also looking into some more local training as more perspectives = good.

Figured out I don't like DA/SA on my FNP. the ergos also didn't work for me (friends liked it though).
Tried practicing with my usp 1911 style at home but the safety is too hard to manipulate consistently for me. It requires more force than a 1911 or CZ, and I always noticed the muzzle jerking around as i flip the safety off. sometimes i flip it down too far and get it half way between fire and decock where it will keep the usp from firing (probably why newer HKs all have the decocker elsewhere). i know the variant 7 safety can remove the decocker, but idk if the notch on the safety can be reshaped to make it easier to manipulate while still being safe.

oddly enough, i never think about going fast and time until the very last fraction of a second where i realize I haven't got my shots off yet and time is about to expire. or occasionally, if i notice everyone else has already double tapped after my first shot, ill see the slide travelling going back after the first shot but before it locks into battery for the second, ill think "ah crap everyone else is done. need to get 2nd shot off now." (absolutely no idea how i perceived in slow mo there, ive tried focusing to get the same slow mo feeling at home, NOT even close). inevitably, i pull the trigger as soon is i feel/see the slide lock into battery and i messed up about 1/2 or 2/3rds of those 2nd shots.
while i hate saying this part as it sounds like im shifting blame to someone/thing else, i feel like part of the reason i end up at the above stage b/c of the below, any applicable advice about the following would be appreciated:
one - weaver doesn't work as well for me. ive tried shooting weaver at home plenty of times and aside from everything feeling funny, i just can't shoot as well this way. and i learned weaver on a relatively clean slate...
two - im rough/jerky on the presentation a lot of times from trying really hard to make sure i don't fudge anything so i don't create a safety hazard for myself/others. in doing so, i take a little extra time to think about all of the steps as i run through them. ive tried weaver at home w/o slowly thinking through all of the little steps and have dropped my gun (luckily on carpet) a few times and i really don't want to find out how well the drop safety/firing pin block will work against the rocks they have there with live ammo (not to mention idiot marks). ive never dropped my pistol once with my normal stance during practice, regardless of if i run through the steps or not, even with time pressure.

Last edited by penguinofsleep; 12-31-2012 at 8:41 PM..
  #622  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:14 PM
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Don't forget the 4th July night courses! I'll be in shotgun, ball and chain Will be in rifle.
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  #623  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:31 AM
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Default It's all in the mind ya'know

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinofsleep View Post
oddly enough, i never think about going fast and time until the very last fraction of a second where i realize I haven't got my shots off yet and time is about to expire. or occasionally, if i notice everyone else has already double tapped after my first shot, ill see the slide travelling going back after the first shot but before it locks into battery for the second, ill think "ah crap everyone else is done. need to get 2nd shot off now." (absolutely no idea how i perceived in slow mo there, ive tried focusing to get the same slow mo feeling at home, NOT even close). inevitably, i pull the trigger as soon is i feel/see the slide lock into battery and i messed up about 1/2 or 2/3rds of those 2nd shots.
while i hate saying this part as it sounds like im shifting blame to someone/thing else, i feel like part of the reason i end up at the above stage b/c of the below, any applicable advice about the following would be appreciated:
one - weaver doesn't work as well for me. ive tried shooting weaver at home plenty of times and aside from everything feeling funny, i just can't shoot as well this way. and i learned weaver on a relatively clean slate...Shoot the way you are most effective and/or comfortable with
two - im rough/jerky on the presentation a lot of times from trying really hard to make sure i don't fudge anything so i don't create a safety hazard for myself/others. in doing so, i take a little extra time to think about all of the steps as i run through them. This is appropriate, but if you're' jerky it maybe as simple as holster position
ive tried weaver at home w/o slowly thinking through all of the little steps and have dropped my gun (luckily on carpet) a few times and i really don't want to find out how well the drop safety/firing pin block will work against the rocks they have there with live ammo (not to mention idiot marks). ive never dropped my pistol once with my normal stance during practice, regardless of if i run through the steps or not, even with time pressure. If you don't "tear" the edge of your performance envelope you'll never know your limits
thanks for sharing your experiences and you are not the "Lone Ranger".

And this illustrates my point(s) exactly. Total focus is required for the entire process.
Noticing what others are doing means you (us/we) are not thinking about the task(s) we are thinking about something we have no control over. If you're seeing someone else shooting...you're not looking at your front sight and not concentrating on trigger control. Your most important shot....is your next one.

Perfect your presentation from the holster, then work on speed. Experiment with different holster locations and cants. When you do it right, it will accually feel right. Some shooters refer to this as "being in the bubble". Their own little world where they are alone, no distractions and totally focused on the tasks required to attain the perfect presentation and shot. You must be in the "here and now" when shooting. You can't think about the clock, it's the kiss of death to a good performance.
During practice I rarely go 100% on the draw and that's where a timing device comes into it's own. Targets only record 50% of the equation, accuracy. A timer fills in the other side, speed. With a timer you'll be able to see, not "feel" a difference. You just can't effectively train with, or for, speed without a timer.
Check out the speed required for the HG Master test at youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5sz4slSj_s

Kyle, the shooter featured has come soooooo close to passing this test it's not funny. -40 is the cut. Losing the certification by one precedual during malfunction clearing has torpedoed more than a couple of potential Masters.
But malfunction clearing is an entirely different class.
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  #624  
Old 01-05-2013, 6:59 PM
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Interesting memo:

http://www.emctx.com/June282012Minutes.pdf

Final approval of Pre-Development Agreement with Front Sight Resorts and East Montgomery County, Texas.
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Old 01-06-2013, 6:47 AM
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Thanks for the update!
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Old 01-06-2013, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Interesting memo:

http://www.emctx.com/June282012Minutes.pdf

Final approval of Pre-Development Agreement with Front Sight Resorts and East Montgomery County, Texas.
Sweet. My inlaws live there. Maybe I can now get rid of some of the many Diamond Memberships I have to my family
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Old 01-06-2013, 9:45 AM
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Ambassador level, upgraded from diamond.

No courses yet but I'm headed to the 4-day handgun in March.
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Old 01-06-2013, 9:46 AM
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Ambassador level, upgraded from diamond.

No courses yet but I'm headed to the 4-day handgun in March.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennisr View Post
Ambassador level, upgraded from diamond.

No courses yet but I'm headed to the 4-day handgun in March.
You should have a great time. It is a lot of hard work. I felt really burned out at the end of the 2nd day the first time around. But, loved the class. My wife had the same experience.
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Old 01-10-2013, 8:26 AM
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Larryect, whens your next trip out to FS? Wife and I will be there in May, rifle and precision rifle.
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Old 01-10-2013, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
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Larryect, whens your next trip out to FS? Wife and I will be there in May, rifle and precision rifle.
Haven't scheduled one yet. Would like to take the Glock Armorer class. Might look at spring time. Would like to graduate the HG class, at least. We opted out of the test last time. It was just too cold and wet. Didn't have proper rain gear. No way I was going to do well in those conditions.
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Old 01-11-2013, 5:56 AM
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Hope to see you out there, as I would with other CalGuns members. Don't forget 4 July night courses.
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Old 01-11-2013, 7:48 AM
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The Mossbergman family is going out there for a 4 day in March(15-18). Practical Rifle and the Mrs. is in the handgun course.
Whooowhooo I get to see how well my AR build works with the new Nikon M-223 BDC600 mounted up!!!!
If you're going out there that weekend drop me a PM, it'd be great to have a Calgunners get together.
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Old 01-11-2013, 9:34 AM
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The wifey finally agreed to take the two day handgun class as our Valentines outing so I am am jazzed as well!

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Old 01-11-2013, 10:12 AM
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Anybody else attending the advanced rifle class next month?
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Old 01-12-2013, 7:47 AM
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May: precision rifle, wife practical rifle.
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Old 01-12-2013, 8:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
May: precision rifle, wife practical rifle.
What's the weather like in May? I need to decide if I want to take PR1 in March or May. I did it last March and the weather was about perfect. I heard last May's class was really windy.

I need to take PR1 again to try to DG it so I can take PR2 again. They changed to prerequisite to DG only, no grand-fathering.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:26 AM
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Last time I went in March it was windy and some sprinkles, so I thought I would try May this time.
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Old 01-14-2013, 8:08 AM
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Having done the 4 day HG and DG'ing, I picked up a Diamond Membership at the Cow Palace this weekend. Mmmmm, this is good koolaid! ;-)
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Old 01-14-2013, 8:25 AM
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Having done the 4 day HG and DG'ing, I picked up a Diamond Membership at the Cow Palace this weekend. Mmmmm, this is good koolaid! ;-)
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