PPT transfer fee $60.00 is legal.....

[comblock]

we need a sticky of all FFLs that charge beyond what is required by law.

[halifax]

I'm willing to bet the FFLs that don't know the laws are not members here.

[jtmkinsd]

Originally Posted by samspade77

Sounds like I need to become an FFL and specialize in internet sale transfers.

There is a market for transfer only dealers...CA's ridiculous laws make it possible...but you have to charge a good deal less than those around you, and hope the volume will make up the difference. Volume = lots of guns to store...so you better start with multiple large safes, or a secure storage room (secure enough to satisfy ATF when they inspect the premises that is).

Originally Posted by halifax

I'm willing to bet the FFLs that don't know the laws are not members here.

Not only that...they hate when calguns is even mentioned. Those who overcharge do not like an educated customer.

[mariodesmo]

Originally Posted by Boarding-Team-Leader

I spoke with the CADOJ some time ago and I was told that the store (Sportsmans Supply in San Jose) was paid a visit by their office and the owner of the store now understands the maximum $ amount he is allowed to charge for a PPT.
I waited about a week then paid an anonymous call to the store and asked what the fees for for various transfers. I was told a PPT of a handgun was $35.00. I responded that the price had gone down since the last time I checked...
BTL

Good job!

I wonder if they will give you a refund on the excess they charged you???
Worth a try, don't you think???

You made a positive difference that will benefit many good folks that go there with less knowledge about the situation, and now they won't be ripped off!
Not on a ppt anyway... :-)

[CharlesV]

I think its time for a rating system. Its not enough who is highest or lowest but overall experience too--like one dealer who is low but refuses to PPT, for example. Its very difficult to keep track of individual experiences. Better that we rate the dealer on certain key questions and give them 1-10 stars and let people choose. It certainly benefits the honest and decent shops which rightly deserve the increase in business as well as encourage the others to upgrade their attitudes. We mostly dont need the DOJ, ourselves will do.

Personally i never knew a dealer who wasnt overboard friendly when everything was going their way. One peep out of you, one argument, one difference of opinion and suddenly youre persona non gratis and out the door with you. Truth is that we need eachother, lets start acting like we do.

[kemasa]

One problem with such a rating system is issues such as sales tax. Many customers would rate the FFL poorly, when in reality that FFL is following the law. Perhaps you should also rate customers :-).

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by kemasa

One problem with such a rating system is issues such as sales tax. Many customers would rate the FFL poorly, when in reality that FFL is following the law. Perhaps you should also rate customers :-).

But sales tax doesn't play into a PPT (unless they need to purchase a lock for pickup day).

But I agree... There would be a buttload of pissed off Calgunners if FFLs posted public ratings of customers.


Like a previous boss once told me: "The customer is not always right, but the customer is always the customer"

[kemasa]

Actually, sales tax can play a part in a PPT. If the dealer gets involved with the price and/or finding a buyer, then the dealer needs to collect sales tax.

And you don't think that FFLs would be pissed off with posted public ratings of FFLs, especially if it is not viewed as being fair?

[CharlesV]

I think a basic rating system should not include emotional issues even on a good day.
1) did the FFL refuse a legal transaction?
2) was the cost higher or lower than average?
3) were there special charges like storage?
4) did the FFL do their job in a timely, professional manner?

We can make up 10 key questions as the rating and suppress any chance of emotion like courtesy, honeryness, etc. Just the facts.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by CharlesV

I think a basic rating system should not include emotional issues even on a good day.
1) did the FFL refuse a legal transaction?
2) was the cost higher or lower than average?
3) were there special charges like storage?
4) did the FFL do their job in a timely, professional manner?

We can make up 10 key questions as the rating and suppress any chance of emotion like courtesy, honeryness, etc. Just the facts.

What a cluster f*ck that would be.

1) does the customer know it's a legal transaction?
2) National average? Higher price, but in-stock rather than backordered 6 months out? Higher overhead but nicer facilities/location?
3) Explain "special"... like collecting sales tax as the law requires?
4) Were they busy with customers buying products from them? Explain "professional". Some people think just showing up to work in ripped jeans and stained t-shirt satisfies that requirement. Others believe that Galileo was wrong. The solar system does, in fact, revolve around them, and anything less is "unprofessional"

[kemasa]

BTW, there are many reasons to refuse a "legal" transaction, such as if the FFL has any reason to believe that it might be a straw purchase. It could also be questionable and/or the FFL does not want to deal with the issue since it is not 100% documented, such as an out of state intrafamilial transfer. Or it could be that the buyer is trying to claim a false purchase amount, refusing to provide a receipt or something else which the FFL does not want to deal with.

As to the cost, perhaps you should determine what the average is for each city, county and location. The costs involved change greatly, including, but not limited to fees and permits, property costs (rent/property value), etc. A nicer building will cost more, as does having a larger inventory so that the customer does not have to wait to get the item that they want.

Again, if you want to rate the FFL, how about rating the customer? Fair is fair, right? Perhaps the customer is a problem customer and no FFL wants to deal with them.

While I understand what you want to accomplish, the fact is that you can't ever really do what you want since you would have to provide the FFL to reply. If the customer claims that it is legal, the FFL might say otherwise. To claim that a FFL refused a legal transfer without a means of allowing the FFL to defend their decision is just plain wrong. What is the line about being able to face your accusers?

[wizdumb]

Actually, I got charged for the demonstration too (which they said was mandatory). I had to get my HSC while I was there, so I was OK with paying that fee. Then they gave me a bunch of **** for not bringing a safe with me (wtf), or container with a lock that had a 30day or less old receipt. So I had to buy one of their locks too.

This was also a dealer in the San Jose area, that the seller wanted to meet at for the transfer.

[kemasa]

There is no mandatory fee for the demonstration. You do have to pay for the HSC.

Under state law you need to have a safe/certified lock box or a lock with a receipt within 30 days. Under Federal law (which has not been properly documented) the FFL is required to provide a lock (according to BATF attorney), although the law seems (to me) to state that a lock has to be provided, but does not detail as who has to provide it. So, it would be possible for you to have a lock for the Feds and fill out a safe affidavit for CA, if you don't have a receipt for the lock.

[glockwise2000]

Does an 01FFL exempt from HSC and demo?

[BannedinBritain]

Originally Posted by glockwise2000

Does an 01FFL exempt from HSC and demo?

No...They used to be exempt when it was the Basic Firearms Safety Certificate. That exemption was removed when the HSC law was enacted. I'm a certified instructor...I administer the HSC test, give you your card and conduct the demo...when I buy a handgun, I have to do a demo for myself...lol...yes, I actually have to do the demo and I can sign my off my own demo.

An 03 FFL with a COE has an exemption from the demo on C&R handguns only...but that is the only exemption any FFL has from the HSC.

[kemasa]

It depends on what you mean by an 01FFL being exempt. When purchasing a firearm for their inventory, they are exempt. For their own purchase, they are not exempt.

This is the list of exemptions:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hsc2.php

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by BannedinBritain

No...They used to be exempt when it was the Basic Firearms Safety Certificate. That exemption was removed when the HSC law was enacted. I'm a certified instructor...I administer the HSC test, give you your card and conduct the demo...when I buy a handgun, I have to do a demo for myself...lol...yes, I actually have to do the demo and I can sign my off my own demo.

I was in a shop DROSing a single-action revolver ("cowboy" style loading, one round at a time), and while in the process, a lady next to me was having trouble racking her slide to do her safety demo.
The employee gave her some pointers, still no joy.
I mentioned a method that works pretty well for my wife. The employee said "I gotta see this!" so he handed me the gun and I showed her, gave it back, and she was able to complete the demo.

The guy helping me watched, looked at the revolver, looked at her semi-auto, looked at me, and signed off the safety demo.
He then asked if I needed a job

[BannedinBritain]

lol...one thing I've learned is you never stop learning in this industry.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by glockwise2000

Does an 01FFL exempt from HSC and demo?

Like Kemasa said, an FFL purchasing from his own inventory is required to have a HSC and do the safe handling demo for himself along with filling out the safe handling demo affidavit. I know an FFL that was scolded by DOJ for not having the affidavit.

We are also required to keep any personal purchases from our inventory from ourselves for 10 days.

Who made this stuff up?.........

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by EBR Works

We are also required to keep any personal purchases from our inventory from ourselves for 10 days.

Who made this stuff up?.........

Incorrect. That used to be the case (when the waiting period was 15 days), but it was changed many years back.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#21G

21. Who is exempt from the waiting period?

The most common exemptions to the 10-day wait include:
...
4. Dealers transferring a handgun from inventory to their personal collection are exempt from the waiting period but are still required to submit DROS records for each handgun transferred. There are no DROS submission or waiting period requirement for dealers transferring long guns to themselves for personal use. The BATF's acquisition/disposition log requirements still apply.
(PC section 12078)

For businesses which are corporations, it could be different.

[EBR Works]

Since my FFL is in a separate corporate entity, I believe I would have to follow the procedure as though I was a normal purchaser. But hey, I can always utilize my 03/COE/CCW for exemptions.