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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are. |
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#1
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Ques about Navy Firearms Training
Have a family member who was put on guard duty at her base and they issued her a weapon and only showed her were the safety was and how to check if it was loaded. But nothing else ? It's that normal.
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WildLeaks.org - Former Professional Strangler and Shooting Champ Last edited by KrisDSA; 06-24-2015 at 1:45 PM.. Reason: Removed - Just - |
#2
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What's her rate? And what was the weapon? Everyone qualifies with the M9 and M500 during basic training.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" You can trust me. I'm a |
#3
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It's a M9 loaded with rubber bullets. Have to double check on her rate. I was only asking because one she has never fired a gun and they didn't teach her how to clear a jam.
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WildLeaks.org - Former Professional Strangler and Shooting Champ |
#5
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Small arms training is required for all military branches during boot camp.
Granted, the Navy spends more time teaching their recruits how to fold their clothes, but handling of small arms and a trip to the range is still required for graduation, is it not? |
#6
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When I was in boot, we did laser gun training. Shooting a m9 with real bullets was optional and it was only one mag. One of our guys almost had his head blasted when he was slow to to respond to the RDI during the live fire session.
Not sure if it was required or not to graduate though, unfortunately I barely remember the training. This was in 2002. |
#7
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That makes no sense... What exactly is her enlisted rate, and what is she doing as a guard? I work with a former GM who was VBSS and went through advanced boarding training... they used Simunition rounds, but I have never heard of rubber bullets for an M9. Even the MA's here who are PRP don't have less-lethal munitions for their firearms.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" You can trust me. I'm a |
#8
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Several years ago, I had to take action on a mishap investigation that occurred at Camp Pendleton. A member of my unit was firing an M-16 and suffered a mishap where a round exploded in the chamber and blew out the magazine well. We did an autopsy on the weapons remains and found that it was missing the bolt cam retaining pin (basically making it a "blow-back" weapon). Training protocols called for a member to be issued a weapon for training, and then to clean the weapon after use, and then return it to the unit armory.
We located the member who last fired, and had cleaned the weapon. He had first entered the service in the Navy and had only been provided with "Familiarization" training on the M9 and M16. No disassembly, cleaning or re-assembly instruction was included in boot camp syllabus. The Marine Corps training syllabi assumed that all members were competent in these function by virtue of boot camp completion. That incident prompted a brief review of the core skills that could be assumed by virtue of boot camp accession from the five services. The results were not good. There was no integration of training requirements between the services. IMHO, only the Army and Marines provided enough basic instruction to make a boot camp graduate a competent weapons bearer. On the other hand, the Navy and Coast Guard require members to pass an individual certification, and to keep that certification current, in order to carry weapons. I don't know, but I have to assume that the other branches have similar requirements. Ideally, that should correct any deficiencies with the lack of boot camp instruction. I have to say "ideally" because our member was completing the certification course at the time of his mishap. I have to ask if the Navy command in question was operating in accordance with directive when they issued the weapon? |
#9
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There are armed watches on the ships while at sea and in port... but those are also armed with M9s and M4/M16s, and the watch stander is required to have a current qual for the weapon being carried. And, again, these are not less-lethal weapons... I have never heard of rubber 9mm rounds being kept in a Navy inventory.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" You can trust me. I'm a |
#10
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My son is an FC1, E6 onboard a carrier. He carries a 9mm or a USN version of the short barreled AR-15, semi-auto only. He also carries both when personing the dock side entrance to the ship. He has been trained in and is very well qualified with both weapons.
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#11
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Back a few years ago, 1964 to be exact . My enlistment was up in three months, my ship was due to deploy again to West-Pac. I was transferred too NAB Coronado (base security).
While there I stood gate watches, patrolled The Silver Strand @ night as well as chasing prisoners from point A to point B. I was issued a 1911 while on duty. I was never instructed on the operation of a 1911, nor did I ever fire one. I was however instructed on and fired 40mm auto cannons (Bofor's) aboard ship. I guess a lot has changed since then.
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A member of The Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Last edited by GMG; 06-24-2015 at 6:16 PM.. |
#12
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Right before WestPac they herded a few of us over to the ranges at Camp Elliott, just east of the 163/I-15 split, and let us shoot the M14 and 1911 for quals. Only time I stood topside duty was right after the Beirut Bombing, when they'd put 2-3 of us on the fo'c's'le to keep an eye on things on the piers. I love the M14, but topside watches blew.
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#13
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I don't even know where to begin with this one.. I spent 20 years carrying small arms in the Navy; briefly in gator fleet, the Bee's and NCW.. retired as unit armory supervisor.. can't recall EVER standing any armed duty without weapons quals.. and I've stood a whole bunch of them.. from SAT/BAF with an m14 [my very first rifle expert medal ] to combat patrol boat crew served weapons gunner..
there used to be a physical security NEC for non MA / GM types to qual for MP duties.. Lackland in Texas I think? story doesn't add up to me but then, what the hell do I know about the 'new' Navy
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I started out with nothing - and I still have most of it |
#14
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WildLeaks.org - Former Professional Strangler and Shooting Champ |
#15
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WildLeaks.org - Former Professional Strangler and Shooting Champ Last edited by KrisDSA; 06-24-2015 at 2:17 PM.. |
#16
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The live fire event she told you about during Week 5 was the actual Navy Pistol Qualification course.
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" You can trust me. I'm a |
#17
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WildLeaks.org - Former Professional Strangler and Shooting Champ Last edited by KrisDSA; 06-24-2015 at 2:40 PM.. |
#19
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that's pretty funny, issue a fake gun for training purposes and the trainee does not even know it's fake. But I'm sure her job in the Navy will not be as a trigger puller anyway, most Navy jobs don't.
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Im a warmonger baby, I got blood in my eyes and I'm looking at you. |
#20
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Great Lakes RTC co. 242 Jun '89 <- kinda besides carrying a fake gun for forward compartment watch, she's saluting the scuttlebutt [drinking fountain] and greeting it with 'good morning/afternoon/evening sir/ma'am, seaman recruit Rick reporting....' saluting everything that moves when straggling [going anywhere out of formation] ironing clothes with Ricky iron [hands] clipping Irish penants [loose threads] from her new uniforms with Ricky scissors [nail clippers] etc., etc... ask her to take good care of our Navy and thanks for her service and btw., as I mentioned above, she should be thoroughly versed with any small arms she's charged with carrying when she rejoins the real world
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I started out with nothing - and I still have most of it |
#21
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I can't say if it's normal or not but it does happen. I was shooting at the Home Avenue Police Gun Range in San Diego with my girlfriend when this navy female that lived in the base housing up the hill from the range, came up to me and asked if I could teach her to shoot for the same reason. She had been placed on gate duty and said she had little firearms training and the navy told her it was up to her to get proficient. I see people at the gate with empty holsters. Hilarious Navy. I'm a firearms instructor took her to the range after classroom time and she was a danger.
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No Right to Police Protection Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)"fundamental principle of American law is that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." “[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists.” |
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A member of The Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Last edited by GMG; 06-25-2015 at 8:46 AM.. |
#23
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I'd also like to add; before being given the replica M9 the recruits DO have to demonstrate proper clearing barrel procedures, and basic weapon safety. The purpose of this "guard duty" is to train Sailors how to perform as a roving sentry, brief the Officer of the Deck or Petty Officer of the watch, and conduct proper watch turnover, as it will be required out in the fleet. As Cpl Haas already stated; the Navy doesn't allow Sailors to carry weapons without being trained, even non-lethal weapons such as batons, OC, and handcuffs. The Navy does not use non-lethal or less-than-lethal ammunition in Law Enforcement. In eight years, the only place have even seen non-lethal ammo was in Iraq, those were bean bag rounds carried by the guy with the breaching shotgun. Last edited by EugeneKM; 08-15-2015 at 3:31 PM.. Reason: miss wording |
#24
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I'm an active duty Infantryman, been in for about a year, sitting at E4. Through basic and at my unit I've never touched a M9 once. On this upcoming deployment, as a gunner, I'm supposed to get one but still us gunners haven't had an time with them. I worked at a SoCal gun range and was a firearms instructor before the Army, so luckily I know my way around a M9, but what about the other dudes? The military just doesn't train with pistols because not everyone gets one and it's really a type of shooting that is totally neglected. It's a shame considering how much training you really need with the Beretta (DA/SA, slide-mounted safety that doubles as a de-cocker).
The reality is that with the wars dying down, the budgets getting cut, and the brass placing priorities elsewhere, situations like OP is describing are not uncommon. We own AR15s and M9s and shoot on the weekends to make up for the lack of training, which is what I would advise everyone.
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VMI '11 11B NRA Life Member, RSO, Rifle/Pistol Instructor |
#25
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I shot a 1911 with .22 caliber bullets in bootcamp, one magazine, this was 1994. Next time I shot a gun was 2006, 12 years later, with a M9. Gun safety was instilled in me during bootcamp. Still scared that I might mess up and get yelled at by GMs. Probably got PTSD from the firearm instructor in Great Mistakes... I mean Great Lakes
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