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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

View Poll Results: Did you registered ur BB weapon
Yes 126 29.58%
No 166 38.97%
Bacon 134 31.46%
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 06-23-2018, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SmallShark View Post
Is the location of the gun really something worth of hiding?

When the doj sends you a letter demanding you to turn in the weapon, do you really have the balls to deny?
If they send a letter to someone who didn't register, you can turn in the lower. They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it. Or you sold it, stored it out of state. If you registered, they know what the configuration is.
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  #82  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
If they send a letter to someone who didn't register, you can turn in the lower. They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it. Or you sold it, stored it out of state. If you registered, they know what the configuration is.
If I were sent a letter for my rifle (I registered a single gun btw) I would either give them the lower, destroy the lower, or take it out of state as well.
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  #83  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
If they send a letter to someone who didn't register, you can turn in the lower. They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it. Or you sold it, stored it out of state. If you registered, they know what the configuration is.
Even the overreach doj regulations allow modifications

So the whole “not to register” is about the cost of the upper?

Is it really worse than buying featureless or fixed mag parts to turn your rifle into abomination?
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  #84  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
and they have been keeping it without any errors since 2011.
Not entirely accurate.
When you sell or otherwise dispose of a gun, they do not remove it from your file. An AFS check of a serial number could potentially return 50 registered owners, they would assume that the most recent date indicates the date the previous owner transferred it, but it doesn't account for out of state sales.

This was the basis of the DOJ's argument against eliminating the 10 day waiting period for persons who already possess a firearm... they argued that their database was not accurate enough to positively determine whether the applicant indeed does currently possess another gun.
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  #85  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
If they send a letter to someone who didn't register, you can turn in the lower. They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it. Or you sold it, stored it out of state. If you registered, they know what the configuration is.
They know the configuration it was prior to registering. But after registration, the only thing you can’t do is remove the BB and make it less than 26” OAL. You can still store and sell out of state. And in fact that is exactly what I plan on doing. I only registered so I could legally transport them out of state. Transporting is exactly the same as transporting a handgun. And I bought them post 2014 so they know exactly what I had. Even if I converted featureless, they would still know I bought them.
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  #86  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:22 PM
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They know the configuration it was prior to registering.
Best case they know the configuration at the time of DROS.
Probably a good 50% or more AR-pattern rifles in CA were sold as bare lowers.
DOJ has no idea if I have 12 rifles, a box of 10 lowers in the garage and 2 rifles, a box of 10 lowers in storage in Arizona and 2 rifles, or any combination of those... all they know is that I bought 10 lowers and 2 rifles at some point between 2005 and 2017.
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  #87  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it. Or you sold it, stored it out of state. If you registered, they know what the configuration is.
What you say makes zero sense. Let's go down the list of things you got totally wrong:

1) "They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it." - And is it any different with RAW in that way? We know now there are NO restrictions on changing anything on the rifle including modifying it in any way, even going down to 26". Only restriction is the 26" SBR law and the BB needs to stay on. Many of the guns I registered are no longer in the configuration I registered them in, and we have written confirmation from the DOJ, made public even, that this is ok. Explain to me how they know anything about the "configuration" of our guns other than they are AW?

2) "Or you sold it, stored it out of state." - It is not a requirement of the AW registry to de-register a weapon when selling it out of state.

3) "If you registered, they know what the configuration is." - All we know about the photo requirements was that they most likely instituted the entire system just to make sure people didn't register illegal stuff. People assumed crazy ideas like we had to keep the weapon in some kind of configuration that was pictured despite this idea not appearing anywhere in the law or regulations. Since we discovered #34 on the DOJ FAQ page we know that no such requirement exists. So the DOJ knows the configuration of your weapon at the time you registered it, THAT IS ALL. Even if you choose to keep it in that configuration they can't assume they know it's in that configuration because it is NOT required to keep it in that configuration.

RAW does not mean they know exactly what we have, it does not mean they know where it is (since there is no requirement to update addresses), and they might not even know when we sell it since there is no requirement to remove it from the registry when we sell. Those pictures we took seem to be totally useless to them now, which would tell us that it was all a tool they used to simply verify legality at the time of registration.
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  #88  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by shooter556 View Post
...But after registration, the only thing you can’t do is remove the BB and make it less than 26” OAL....
Did you mean 30"?
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  #89  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Not entirely accurate.
When you sell or otherwise dispose of a gun, they do not remove it from your file. An AFS check of a serial number could potentially return 50 registered owners, they would assume that the most recent date indicates the date the previous owner transferred it, but it doesn't account for out of state sales.
The out of state thing is also bewildering- how does it make any difference? If I sell out of State and they don't know (you can optionally inform them, and the same rules seem to apply for RAW for the most part) then the only error in their information is that their system is telling them I still have the rifle. Not sure what advantage or purpose that has? If it ever came back into CA it would be dros'd and appear on the radar again.

Fact is relying on an AFS check's most recent record is pretty damn good info, only issue would be if it is not in the system (sporadic record) or this person no longer has the weapon because of a legal out of state sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post

This was the basis of the DOJ's argument against eliminating the 10 day waiting period for persons who already possess a firearm... they argued that their database was not accurate enough to positively determine whether the applicant indeed does currently possess another gun.
I realize the DOJ made that argument but here is what doesn't make sense in that narrative: AFS yourself. I have a collection going back to the late 1990's. They have information on the sheet that goes beyond long gun or pistol, and since 2011 they know make and model and since 2014 everything. The information is spotty before 2011, they missed quite a few legally acquired and dros'd rifles from 1998-2011. All pistols are there including make and model.

I think they have way more information than they claim.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #90  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Did you mean 30"?
We can go down to 26" after registration, confirmed by DOJ in writing:

"What changes can I make to my assault weapon after I register it?

The AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations created by DOJ state that the bullet button style release must remain on the firearm. The owner should not shorten a rifle barrel below 16” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code 33210 and Penal Code 17170). The owner should not shorten a shotgun barrel below 18” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code § 33210 and Penal Code § 17180). See the “key terms” section of the AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations."
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #91  
Old 06-23-2018, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post

Fact is relying on an AFS check's most recent record is pretty damn good info, only issue would be if it is not in the system (sporadic record) or this person no longer has the weapon because of a legal out of state sale.



I realize the DOJ made that argument but here is what doesn't make sense in that narrative: AFS yourself. I have a collection going back to the late 1990's. They have information on the sheet that goes beyond long gun or pistol, and since 2011 they know make and model and since 2014 everything. The information is spotty before 2011, they missed quite a few legally acquired and dros'd rifles from 1998-2011. All pistols are there including make and model.

I think they have way more information than they claim.
How do you AFS yourself, Disco?

Is there info within AFS we aren't allowed access?

Thanks.
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  #92  
Old 06-23-2018, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
We can go down to 26" after registration, confirmed by DOJ in writing:

"What changes can I make to my assault weapon after I register it?

The AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations created by DOJ state that the bullet button style release must remain on the firearm. The owner should not shorten a rifle barrel below 16” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code 33210 and Penal Code 17170). The owner should not shorten a shotgun barrel below 18” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code § 33210 and Penal Code § 17180). See the “key terms” section of the AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations."
Astonishing how this isn't underground regulation, when the DoJ can say which modifications make it a "different weapon" and which do not. Their metric is "was it legal at the time of registration", but the 26" v 30" thing clearly defies that logic.

They're shameless.
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  #93  
Old 06-23-2018, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
How do you AFS yourself, Disco?

Is there info within AFS we aren't allowed access?

Thanks.
It's simply called the Automated Firearms System (AFS) Request for Firearm Records BOF 053 form.

It requires a notary. They have a disclaimer that they only know from 2014 and that past records are not kept except for pistols and AW, yet more than a few of my rifles bought before then are in fact on there.

This is basically a "tell me what you think I have" report.
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #94  
Old 06-23-2018, 1:36 PM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Astonishing how this isn't underground regulation, when the DoJ can say which modifications make it a "different weapon" and which do not. Their metric is "was it legal at the time of registration", but the 26" v 30" thing clearly defies that logic.

They're shameless.
What's crazy is that they put that in their FAQ. They had everyone believing that it wasn't going to be possible to change even the color of the weapon because it was "locked in" and many reported that DOJ personnel on the phone said similar things to this (at least sometimes) that we couldn't change anything once registered. I personally thought it would only be resolved in some test case in court potentially way down the road.

Then BAM- up on the website in writing in January - you can change anything and go to 26". The person who wrote that FAQ is either fired by now or one of us! Surprised they didn't try and revise it, but at this point it's impossible. We all copied and screenshoted and saved this gem.

I'm sure Eric Holder's head exploded when he read #34.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #95  
Old 06-23-2018, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
What you say makes zero sense. Let's go down the list of things you got totally wrong:

1) "They don't know what you have done to it since you purchased it." - And is it any different with RAW in that way?
It's different because at the time of registration you took pics of your rifle in its current configuration. Yes you can make changes in the future, but my reply to SmallShark addressed his example if DOJ was sending out a letter demanding you to turn your AW in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallShark View Post
Is the location of the gun really something worth of hiding?

When the doj sends you a letter demanding you to turn in the weapon, do you really have the balls to deny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
We know now there are NO restrictions on changing anything on the rifle including modifying it in any way, even going down to 26". Only restriction is the 26" SBR law and the BB needs to stay on. Many of the guns I registered are no longer in the configuration I registered them in, and we have written confirmation from the DOJ, made public even, that this is ok. Explain to me how they know anything about the "configuration" of our guns other than they are AW?
See above reply.

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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
2) "Or you sold it, stored it out of state." - It is not a requirement of the AW registry to de-register a weapon when selling it out of state.
No it's not. However that doesn't erase your information in their database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
3) "If you registered, they know what the configuration is." - All we know about the photo requirements was that they most likely instituted the entire system just to make sure people didn't register illegal stuff. People assumed crazy ideas like we had to keep the weapon in some kind of configuration that was pictured despite this idea not appearing anywhere in the law or regulations. Since we discovered #34 on the DOJ FAQ page we know that no such requirement exists. So the DOJ knows the configuration of your weapon at the time you registered it, THAT IS ALL. Even if you choose to keep it in that configuration they can't assume they know it's in that configuration because it is NOT required to keep it in that configuration.
Regardless they know what your rifle looks like at the time of registration. Not registering, they have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
RAW does not mean they know exactly what we have, it does not mean they know where it is (since there is no requirement to update addresses), and they might not even know when we sell it since there is no requirement to remove it from the registry when we sell. Those pictures we took seem to be totally useless to them now, which would tell us that it was all a tool they used to simply verify legality at the time of registration.
That is only an assumption on your part. No one on either side has a real answer.
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  #96  
Old 06-23-2018, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
How do you AFS yourself, Disco?

Is there info within AFS we aren't allowed access?

Thanks.
See attached.
Needs a copy of your CA ID and it needs to be notarized.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AFSPrivateCitizen(1).pdf (2.07 MB, 13 views)
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #97  
Old 06-23-2018, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post

Regardless they know what your rifle looks like at the time of registration. Not registering, they have no idea.
And the value of that is???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post

That is only an assumption on your part. No one on either side has a real answer.
No, it's a hypothesis built on logic. If they know what your weapon looked like at the time of registration and there is indeed no mandate to keep it in that config besides the usual legal standards and a BB then what possible value could those photographs have? Are they building a database that can finally answer the question of what is the most popular color of a weapon in CA besides black?

The important thing is that it dispels myths and FUD spread by anti-registration advocates about the government requiring that weapons remain in certain configs and that the information in the photos is somehow valuable in any way.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #98  
Old 06-23-2018, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
And the value of that is???
For me it's not giving them any additional info and not giving them one red cent supporting registration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
No, it's a hypothesis built on logic. If they know what your weapon looked like at the time of registration and there is indeed no mandate to keep it in that config besides the usual legal standards and a BB then what possible value could those photographs have? Are they building a database that can finally answer the question of what is the most popular color of a weapon in CA besides black?
More than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
The important thing is that it dispels myths and FUD spread by anti-registration advocates about the government requiring that weapons remain in certain configs and that the information in the photos is somehow valuable in any way.
You and I see a completely different picture about the intent from the DOJ.
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  #99  
Old 06-23-2018, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It's simply called the Automated Firearms System (AFS) Request for Firearm Records BOF 053 form.

It requires a notary. They have a disclaimer that they only know from 2014 and that past records are not kept except for pistols and AW, yet more than a few of my rifles bought before then are in fact on there.

This is basically a "tell me what you think I have" report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
See attached.
Needs a copy of your CA ID and it needs to be notarized.

Much appreciated, gentlemen. Someday I'll put that to good use!
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  #100  
Old 06-26-2018, 9:05 AM
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bump
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  #101  
Old 06-26-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
For me it's not giving them any additional info and not giving them one red cent supporting registration.


I have to admit I felt the same way to a degree.
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Last edited by Sousuke; 06-26-2018 at 10:38 AM..
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  #102  
Old 06-26-2018, 10:26 AM
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Bacon!!!!
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  #103  
Old 06-26-2018, 1:04 PM
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bump
"did u registered"?

C'mon man. Don't be that guy.
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  #104  
Old 06-26-2018, 3:20 PM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
"did u registered"?

C'mon man. Don't be that guy.
What guy?

I registered. As I mentioned in other thread, multiple weapons from ur generic AR to one offs, few 80%, rifle from multiple countries. Not gonna miss the boat this time. I was regretting years after 2000 that I did not register more back then. As I learned back then, sticking up ur finger against the Man did jack for advancing our rights instead curtailed what little rights I had left. Been waiting for years for them to close this “loophole”. Many had forgot the B.B. was an invention partially used to provoke another registration. Why do u think they have this no B.B. removal rule? DOJ did not forget. Sacramento did.

I can now finally go shoot with my standard mags in my rifles and pistols. And handle the firearm as it was designed.

BTW regulation does not mention anything about attaching a tool to ur BB, B.B. still function the same requiring a tool, but there is nothing indicating u cannot attach the tool. Just no magnet
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  #105  
Old 06-26-2018, 5:09 PM
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I remain in total compliance with the law. I would not want to do anything that may result in the loss of what few gun rights I have left.
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  #106  
Old 06-26-2018, 6:35 PM
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4 days left guys, as a reminder for lurkers as well.
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  #107  
Old 06-26-2018, 6:41 PM
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God Bless all of you who 'registered'. You actually think you're dealing with an ethical entity who won't change the 'rules' (remember they make the 'rules') to suit their purpose (which is our complete disarmament) when it suits their objective (our complete disarmament and internment).
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  #108  
Old 06-27-2018, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
God Bless all of you who 'registered'. You actually think you're dealing with an ethical entity who won't change the 'rules' (remember they make the 'rules') to suit their purpose (which is our complete disarmament) when it suits their objective (our complete disarmament and internment).
Featureless is close behind. God bless those who register their featureless when the time comes.
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  #109  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:26 AM
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Really?? A poll among Calguns members, many who enjoy being subjugated, will not be accurate poll of the general population. I guarantee a 10% or less compliant rate! Viva la resistance!
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  #110  
Old 06-27-2018, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Why would we collect info for CA-DOJ?
This thread needs to be locked, or removed
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  #111  
Old 06-27-2018, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clb View Post
This thread needs to be locked, or removed
You are right. They'll realize how many people like bacon here and will try to ban pork.
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  #112  
Old 06-27-2018, 1:58 PM
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You are right. They'll realize how many people like bacon here and will try to ban pork.
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  #113  
Old 06-27-2018, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by clb View Post
This thread needs to be locked, or removed
Is that you, Gavin?
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  #114  
Old 06-27-2018, 2:47 PM
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I found myself in a unique situation where the DoJ has actually come to my residence to take possession of a firearm in the past. I've since got it back, took 5yrs, but would not want any additional attention in my direction, so I'll wait on the fun stuff until I'm out state.
When I move, I'll take my state taxes with me. Sure I'm only one, but since my vote at the box doesn't count, have to vote with my feet. Has this weird refugee crisis thing. Just hope my new state won't stop me at the border =o
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  #115  
Old 06-27-2018, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Is that you, Gavin?
Yea lets send doj a list of whom they want to look at!!!
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  #116  
Old 06-27-2018, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by clb View Post
Yea lets send doj a list of whom they want to look at!!!
Prove it. Need naked pix of your ex Kimberley Guilfoyle.
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  #117  
Old 06-27-2018, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
What guy?

I registered. As I mentioned in other thread, multiple weapons from ur generic AR to one offs, few 80%, rifle from multiple countries. Not gonna miss the boat this time. I was regretting years after 2000 that I did not register more back then. As I learned back then, sticking up ur finger against the Man did jack for advancing our rights instead curtailed what little rights I had left. Been waiting for years for them to close this “loophole”. Many had forgot the B.B. was an invention partially used to provoke another registration. Why do u think they have this no B.B. removal rule? DOJ did not forget. Sacramento did.

I can now finally go shoot with my standard mags in my rifles and pistols. And handle the firearm as it was designed.
Same with me, I regretted not registering more back in the day. Only got 1 in 2000. I was influenced by LGS guys talking smack about registering back then as auto confiscation and it prevented me from registering more. The fact is the registry has been a grandfathered and protected status for 30 years. I see a good bet in getting into it, although there are no grantees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post

BTW regulation does not mention anything about attaching a tool to ur BB, B.B. still function the same requiring a tool, but there is nothing indicating u cannot attach the tool. Just no magnet
Actually they do, it's in the definitions. Attaching a magnet or tool to activate the BB is the same as taking the BB off. This is the highly illegal act of manufacturing an AW from an AW which is magic and cannot be understood by pleeb minds.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
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  #118  
Old 06-28-2018, 6:08 AM
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G B A
Yer a funny feller!

But do you think no one is watching this forum???
This thread is up there with the guy selling milled 80% on the net, how did doj find him???
I await your next .....
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Last edited by clb; 06-28-2018 at 6:13 AM..
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  #119  
Old 06-28-2018, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
G B A
Yer a funny feller!

But do you think no one is watching this forum???
This thread is up there with the guy selling milled 80% on the net, how did doj find him???
I await your next .....
Wait, what? Details?
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  #120  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb View Post
But do you think no one is watching this forum???
I don't think they are as impressed with CG as we are, and they probably get a splitting headache reading it.

I honestly don't think DOJ cares about what we say or do. To them it probably reads like ranting partisan gibberish.

I am sure some low-level anti-gunners come here from time to time, but not the DOJ or politicians with any authority. They have other things to do.
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