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  #241  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:32 AM
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Ok one more that I may have missed here. A firearm that is used and being transferred in state. For instance seller is in nor cal. They ship an FFL the gun directly so purchaser in so cal can do transfer through them. This is technically a person to person transfer so no tax but does it change since the FFL has go run it as a normal sale through the DROS system? I would think that wouldn't change anything because the FFL wasn't involved in negotiating the price, finding the buyer/seller etc.


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  #242  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:43 AM
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Since an in-state transfer is not required to go through a FFL under Federal law, no sales tax would be required as long as it is an occasional sale and not from a business, as well as the FFL not being involved in finding the buyer/seller or the price.

The issue of new/used (depending on your definition) does not matter, it is just who owns it. Is a firearm which was purchased new from a dealer and which has never been shot outside of the factory new or used? Some say new, others say new. Many feel that being fired is what makes a firearm used. There is no real term for a firearm which has been transferred, but never actually used.
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  #243  
Old 04-24-2014, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Since an in-state transfer is not required to go through a FFL under Federal law, no sales tax would be required as long as it is an occasional sale and not from a business, as well as the FFL not being involved in finding the buyer/seller or the price.

The issue of new/used (depending on your definition) does not matter, it is just who owns it. Is a firearm which was purchased new from a dealer and which has never been shot outside of the factory new or used? Some say new, others say new. Many feel that being fired is what makes a firearm used. There is no real term for a firearm which has been transferred, but never actually used.

I was using new and used incorrectly. My meaning was it already had state sales tax paid on it. My understanding is an item once sales tax has been paid on it will not have it charged tax again. That was my meaning but it only clouded the situation.


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  #244  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:26 AM
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It does not matter how many times an item has had sales tax collected on it, all that matters is how it is transaction and whether that transaction is subject to sales tax.

A FFL selling a consignment firearm has to collect sales tax on it. If the FFL buys a firearm from a customer and then sells it, sales tax has to be collected on it. A PPT is subject to sales tax if the FFL finds the buyer/seller or gets involved in the price.

If a person in a state which has no sales tax buys a firearm and moves to CA, then later sells it as a PPT, it would not be subject to sales tax unless the FFL gets involved finding the buyer/seller or with the price.

Oh, if a person out of state buys a firearm and sends it to a CA resident as a gift, it is not subject to CA sales tax.
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  #245  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:39 AM
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No clue where I heard that info. But thanks kemasa.


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  #246  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWorksTactical View Post
No clue where I heard that info. But thanks kemasa.
Most likely from customers :-).
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  #247  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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Default When CA FFLs should collect SALES TAX from consumers.

Wrong thread moved to the right one.


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  #248  
Old 04-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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Lol yeah tapatalk was smarter than me one that one.


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  #249  
Old 05-14-2014, 1:27 PM
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I thought that I would attach the following response from the BOE which mentions collecting sales tax if the FFL gets involved in a PPT.

DPF09-06-134_noname.pdf
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File Type: pdf DPF09-06-134_noname.pdf (101.6 KB, 91 views)
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  #250  
Old 05-14-2014, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76 View Post
Question for you: on the Front Sight promotional where we're getting free guns, is there something which covers guns which are free? I guess this is the same as winning one in a raffle, etc.

I have a hunch the state is going to want sales tax on the MSRP of each and every gun we get.
No such thing as free at the very least you technically have to declare anything you have won/or free as income.
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  #251  
Old 05-14-2014, 6:28 PM
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Declaring income is different than a FFL having to collect sales tax.

If he person did not pay anything for it, there is no sales tax.
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  #252  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:03 AM
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Question.
Buying an off roster pistol online, and will be sent to an FFL who will SSE the pistol. CA FFL quoted $100. for all fees including DROS. When I asked about any other fees/taxes, and FFL stated that was it, and said he'll leave the sales tax up to me to submit.
So how do I take care of the sales tax? Is the FFL going to do something to hide the transaction?
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  #253  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:19 AM
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You pay it as Use tax on your 540 but, in fact, the CA dealer is responsible for it.
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  #254  
Old 05-24-2014, 11:30 AM
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As said, you can pay it, but the BOE requires that the FFL collect it. Even if you pay it, if they are audited, they might have a serious problem.

Depending on the FFL, you might do them a favor by informing them of their responsibility. It could ruin their day, week, month, year, decade, etc. if they BOE notices. Some FFLs might not like to be told (you can lead a horse to water ...).
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  #255  
Old 05-24-2014, 1:17 PM
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So if the FFL collects the sales tax, then I dont need to worry about a use tax?
Now since this is an FFL obligation, does that free them up from any penalties if I paid the use tax? what if I also failed to file a use tax?
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  #256  
Old 05-24-2014, 2:14 PM
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Correct, if the FFL collects the sales tax, as they are required to, you don't have to pay the use tax.

I doubt that the BOE would check to see if you paid, plus even if you paid, there is no proof that what you paid was for that item, instead of another item. Due to that and since they are required to pay the sales tax, I doubt that it would make any difference if you paid or not.

In theory, the BOE could go after you for tax evasion for failing to pay.
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  #257  
Old 08-10-2014, 9:24 AM
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  #258  
Old 07-27-2016, 7:36 PM
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I'm reviving this thread because I didn't see an answer to my question in here, maybe things have changed since the last post? Anyway, my question is:

If I buy a gun online and pay sales tax to the seller in another state, do I have to pay sales tax AGAIN in California?
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  #259  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:25 PM
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If the seller in another state has a presence in CA, then they would collect CA sales tax and you would not pay CA sales tax again, although the seller would be responsible for collecting the sales tax on the transfer fee.

An out of state business should not collect their own state sales tax. While it gets confusing and while you pay, you are really not buying the firearm. It is really a business to business sale, which is exempt from sales tax. Then your local FFL is "selling" the firearm to you, which means it is subject to sales tax.
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  #260  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
If the seller in another state has a presence in CA, then they would collect CA sales tax and you would not pay CA sales tax again, although the seller would be responsible for collecting the sales tax on the transfer fee.

An out of state business should not collect their own state sales tax. While it gets confusing and while you pay, you are really not buying the firearm. It is really a business to business sale, which is exempt from sales tax. Then your local FFL is "selling" the firearm to you, which means it is subject to sales tax.
I think customers get screwed when they are physically in that state.. pay at the counter and then that dealer ships to CA. I doubt many POS systems are setup to exclude sales tax on firearms that are then shipping to another state.
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  #261  
Old 07-28-2016, 1:09 PM
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I think customers get screwed when they are physically in that state.. pay at the counter and then that dealer ships to CA. I doubt many POS systems are setup to exclude sales tax on firearms that are then shipping to another state.
I had a customer with that problem. It took some time, but got it resolved. One way to deal with it is to walk out and call them. The problem is that they don't get that it is no different if they walk in vs. calling or over the Internet. If they can do Internet sales, then they can do it, but you have to lead them at times.
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  #262  
Old 07-28-2016, 4:06 PM
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So how is sales tax calculated on a firearm custom made but being sold as a 'factory second'due to small imperfections?is it up to the maker to determine the value and include it in said gun?
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  #263  
Old 07-28-2016, 4:15 PM
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If there is no invoice provided the dealer will use fair market value unless the buyer can show otherwise. So in the example you describe it would behoove the buyer to insure that an invoice showing the discounted price is shipped with the firearm.
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  #264  
Old 07-28-2016, 8:58 PM
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Thank you mad river..I've had my eye on a custom ar for some time and the maker made me a bolt action bout 7 years ago and after many emails and phone calls he said a customer returned it due to an issue.they confirmed it wasn't to specs so if I want it it'll be discounted just to make a sale and not be stuck with it
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  #265  
Old 07-29-2016, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painkiller View Post
So how is sales tax calculated on a firearm custom made but being sold as a 'factory second'due to small imperfections?is it up to the maker to determine the value and include it in said gun?
It is what it sold for. It should be a real receipt/invoice though. Without a receipt/invoice which is real, you could have a problem.
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  #266  
Old 07-29-2016, 7:43 PM
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What worries me is the dealer having an issue with said invoice,because being a long time customer pre Boe involvement,the guy thought (a)he could sell it and (b)give a long time customer a good deal on a custom piece with some small flaw
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  #267  
Old 07-29-2016, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painkiller View Post
What worries me is the dealer having an issue with said invoice,because being a long time customer pre Boe involvement,the guy thought (a)he could sell it and (b)give a long time customer a good deal on a custom piece with some small flaw
I don't follow, sorry.

What invoice would the dealer have a problem with?
Who is a long time customer of who and what does "pre BOE involvement" mean?
The guy - who is this? and he could sell what?

I'm confused on who the manufacturer is, who the dealer is, and if there is any other 3rd party in this conversation. Can you be more specific somethin like:

I'm trying to buy an Aero Precision Blem. I'm a long time customer of Aero Precision and they are going to give it to me for $40. I will be transferring through Dealer A. Will he accept the invoice of $40 from Aero Precision?

--
or something like that.. I can't follow the part of your conversation I quoted above.
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  #268  
Old 08-17-2016, 2:44 PM
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I've read through this thread, but I want to make certain that what I do is right.
If a buyer in California wins an auction from an auction house (not Gunbroker) is the item subject to CA taxes?
I believe the items are on consignment.
In case anyone is familiar with the company, it's Morphy's Auctions.
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  #269  
Old 08-17-2016, 3:08 PM
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Yes subject to sales tax. If it's an auction house in CA they will collect it and you'll see it on bill of sale. If auction house outside of CA they usually will not.

I have received from Bonhams & Butterfields within CA and they collect sales tax (so I don't).

Consignment items are charged sales tax.
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