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  #801  
Old 03-13-2019, 7:47 AM
JonMorganHill JonMorganHill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
LOL. I'm still waiting to hear back from my application 5 years ago! But please do let us know if they even bother to respond to you.

Did you mail it in or personally drop it off?
Mailed it. Aren't they required to give a response within 90 days?
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  #802  
Old 03-13-2019, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMorganHill View Post
Mailed it. Aren't they required to give a response within 90 days?
Not sure if they are required. There are dozens of us who applied a few years ago who never heard back. I suspect you will hear nothing or maybe some BS canned response. Regardless, I'm eager to find out what response you get.

Did you send it certified mail at least? If not, that was probably a mistake.
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  #803  
Old 03-13-2019, 7:58 AM
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Just regular mail. I probably should have dropped it off in person, but didn't think to do so.
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  #804  
Old 03-13-2019, 12:31 PM
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I certified mail my application a couple of years ago. Heard nothing from them.
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  #805  
Old 03-13-2019, 9:32 PM
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IIRC, you guys need to keep photocopies of all documents submitted to the SO and submit them, again IIRC, certified mail (the one where you get a card back with signature of whoever signed for it), so that you have evidence of nonfeasance by the sheriff's office and can file with the appropriate state court a request for a writ of mandamus to order the sheriff to obey the law and process your app (see Salute v. Pitchess). Give a quick call to an attorney (like Don Kilmer in SJ) for details.

http://dkgunlaw.com/
Law Offices of Donald Kilmer, APC
1645 Willow Street, Suite 150
San Jose, California 95125-5120
Voice: (408) 264-8489
Fax: (408) 264-8487

Salute
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court...l/1830587.html

Quote:
While a court cannot compel a public officer to exercise his discretion in any particular manner, it may direct him to exercise that discretion. We regard the case at bench as involving a refusal of the sheriff to exercise the discretion given him by the statute. Section 12050 imposes only three limits on the grant of an application to carry a concealed weapon: the applicant must be of good moral character, show good cause and be a resident of the county. To determine, in advance, as a uniform rule, that only selected public officials can show good cause is to refuse to consider the existence of good cause on the part of citizens generally and is an abuse of, and not an exercise of, discretion.

The petition before us alleges that petitioners are of good moral character and are residents of Los Angeles County. It is admitted that no inquiry into the existence of good cause has ever been made in connection with the application of these petitioners, or of any other applicant outside the limited group of public officials. It is the duty of the sheriff to make such an investigation and determination, on an individual basis, on every application under section 12050.

The order of dismissal is reversed for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.


There, I've spoon fed it to you.

No, I don't live in Santa Clara Co and, no, I won't do this for you....
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  #806  
Old 03-13-2019, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
FYI You guys need to keep photocopies of all documents submitted to the SO and submit them certified mail (the one where you get a card back with signature of whoever signed for it), so that you can file with court a request for a writ of mandamus to order the sheriff to obey the law and process your app.


I sent mine certified with signature. It shows as never delivered.
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  #807  
Old 03-14-2019, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by phdo View Post
I sent mine certified with signature. It shows as never delivered.
Well, what did the PO say when you asked them why they didn't deliver it?

Did you use the correct address? Or doesn't the PO know where the SO's offices are located?

The SO has someone to sign for such things, since they regularly are required for legal service of process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_of_process
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  #808  
Old 03-30-2019, 7:51 PM
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Does Sunnyvale's large capacity law apply to CCW holders or were they exempted?

Does yesterday's US District Court decision change anything?

Same for San Fran's?
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  #809  
Old 03-31-2019, 9:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalBusa View Post
Does Sunnyvale's large capacity law apply to CCW holders or were they exempted?

Does yesterday's US District Court decision change anything?

Same for San Fran's?
My GUESS is, as in Peruta, nothing will have to change until appeals are exhausted, the decision is final, the mandate issues....

My GUESS is CA will appeal it to the 9th Circuit.

IOW, no change for years even if we do ultimately win.
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  #810  
Old 04-16-2019, 7:46 PM
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FYI from another thread in another forum. (emphasis added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Full disclosure...I've known Sheriff Smith for over 35 years. I had a sit down with her about three weeks ago on an unrelated non-firearms matter. We did get around to talking about issuance of CCW's. She is issuing them - albeit slowly. I know she had a recent change in administrative personnel handling the CCW applications. She is not ignoring them.

I've read a great many negative things on this forum about her. I have no opinion other than to state I've always found her to be up front to me. Others certainly differ - OK.

If you live in Santa Clara County go ahead and apply. If you applied over a year ago - do it again. They are looking at updated applications.
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  #811  
Old 04-16-2019, 8:58 PM
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That’s encouraging. I’m just about 60 days since I applied, so we’ll see if anything happens either direction. Thanks for the post
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  #812  
Old 04-19-2019, 4:04 PM
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Just an update as of today. If you applied more than a year ago...reapply. Files are purged after a year. Don't get into arguments about what you did before. Just do it again. They have 2 deputies working on the applications - and they have other duties also.

That's the best information I can offer. Stay positive.
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  #813  
Old 04-19-2019, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Just an update as of today. If you applied more than a year ago...reapply. Files are purged after a year. Don't get into arguments about what you did before. Just do it again. They have 2 deputies working on the applications - and they have other duties also.

That's the best information I can offer. Stay positive.
Sounds great, but any idea of who should apply?

(1) Folks who would pass "light red" Good Cause standard (e.g., small shop owners making regular cash deposits, victims of violent crime and/or documented threats of violence, etc.)?

(2) Folk in #1 and those that would pass "light green" GC standard (e.g., folks who hike/backpack/motorcycle in wilderness areas w/o cell coverage and extended LE response times)?

(3) Or those in #2 and folks who could only pass a "dark green" GC standard (folks who are members of gun clubs and regularly take several guns and hundreds of rounds to and from a shooting range, folks who desire a CCW since otherwise they cannot "bear arms" for lawful self-defense)?

We don't want to waste applicants' or the SO's time, money and effort with apps that don't have a chance due to insufficient GC.

I look forward to reading posts or getting PMs (all info kept in strict confidence) from CGNers who go thru the process to see how much Sheriff Smith has decided to liberalize issuance.
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  #814  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Just an update as of today. If you applied more than a year ago...reapply. Files are purged after a year. Don't get into arguments about what you did before. Just do it again. They have 2 deputies working on the applications - and they have other duties also.

That's the best information I can offer. Stay positive.
Assuming Smith has liberalized acceptable GC (which you haven't addressed yet and we don't know), why did she do that? What made her change her mind? Why now?
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  #815  
Old 04-20-2019, 4:00 PM
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I don't have any secret information. I'm not going to address what good cause is acceptable...I don't know.

I've stated they are slowly issuing the permits. That is a fact. I've stated they only have 2 deputies working on applications and they both have other assigned duties.

Speculation, rumors, etc., are of little value. I've stated that new applications are the way to go.

I originally hesitated to even bring the subject up on this forum, but for those of you who applied over a year ago, and were still waiting, I felt you needed to know you need to reapply.
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  #816  
Old 04-20-2019, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
I don't have any secret information. I'm not going to address what good cause is acceptable...I don't know.

I've stated they are slowly issuing the permits. That is a fact. I've stated they only have 2 deputies working on applications and they both have other assigned duties.

Speculation, rumors, etc., are of little value. I've stated that new applications are the way to go.

I originally hesitated to even bring the subject up on this forum, but for those of you who applied over a year ago, and were still waiting, I felt you needed to know you need to reapply.


How about accepted training courses then? By law, you have to take a 16hr course. If they are processing applications then they should have a list of acceptable courses/instructors. Can you find out for us, please?
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  #817  
Old 04-20-2019, 6:15 PM
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"How about accepted training courses then? By law, you have to take a 16hr course. If they are processing applications then they should have a list of acceptable courses/instructors. Can you find out for us, please?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

I'll call SO Monday.

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  #818  
Old 04-20-2019, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
I don't have any secret information. I'm not going to address what good cause is acceptable...I don't know.
Since GC is the bar for the vast majority of potential CCWers, it is what we focus upon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
I've stated they are slowly issuing the permits. That is a fact. I've stated they only have 2 deputies working on applications and they both have other assigned duties.
Well, I GUESS I'm glad to hear Sheriff Smith is processing apps again, since, per Salute v. Pitchess (https://law.justia.com/cases/califor...3d/61/557.html), not process apps (i.e., "a refusal of the sheriff to exercise the discretion given [her] by the statute"), is an illegal "abuse of, and not an exercise of, discretion." Pity no one in Santa Clara Co requested a state trial judge to nail her with a writ of mandamus to force her to obey the law, per my post #805 above. Oh well, I can't do everything and, no, I don't live in Santa Clara Co. To me, hearing that "the chief law enforcement officer of the county" has decided to obey the law isn't something to celebrate, just like she wouldn't celebrate if we told her we've decided to obey the speed limits in her county....

Not processing apps puts an IA in an imaginary "dark half" of "dark red", where the CA State Auditor found former LA Sheriff McDonnell (25 out of 25 audited apps did NOT follow his own CCW policy). Processing apps under a very strict GC standard is the "light half" of "dark red" (for example, see Alameda Co: https://www.alamedacountysheriff.org/admin_ia_ccw.php). I guess this is an improvement for Santa Clara Co, getting half a color/shade closer to green....

Maybe she'll also liberalize GC, or maybe she won't. At this point, as far as the CA CCW GC map is concerned, assuming what you say is what she's doing, no change in the color of Santa Clara Co is called for at this time. I encourage Santa Clara Co CGNers with GC that would pass light red or even just yellow, to seriously consider applying with Smith at this time and either post (but not with so much detail as to ID yourself) or PM me (kept in strict confidence), your experience AFTER you've been issued or denied. That will give us information upon which to decide whether Santa Clara should remain dark red on the map or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Speculation, rumors, etc., are of little value. I've stated that new applications are the way to go.

I originally hesitated to even bring the subject up on this forum, but for those of you who applied over a year ago, and were still waiting, I felt you needed to know you need to reapply.
I'm sure all the CGNers who submitted apps post 3-judge panel decision in Peruta thank you for giving them definitive guidance re. whether to reapply or to try to revive their old apps.

Look at post #792: looks like I went down this road a few months ago and forgot about it.... That's what happens when you're watching too many anti counties (none of which I live in).
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Last edited by Paladin; 04-21-2019 at 10:09 AM..
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  #819  
Old 04-24-2019, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post

I'll call SO Monday.

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  #820  
Old 04-25-2019, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by erik View Post
Any good word?


I still hope Smith liberalizes her GC standard, the way Sheriff Gore of San Diego Co did. He now has ~2,500 CCWs issued vs only ~400 two years ago, and he's issuing >120 new CCWs per month. Sacto (>9,000) and Fresno have issued tons of CCWs and no problems. Same with Solano Co (6,000+ CCWs).

I'd rather support Smith than have to try to replace her. But time (and CGNers' postings) will tell....
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  #821  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongage View Post
*****UPDATE****** 1/10/19

Santa Clara County now ACCEPTING applications for CCW Web page updated as of 1/10/19

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMorganHill View Post
That’s encouraging. I’m just about 60 days since I applied, so we’ll see if anything happens either direction. Thanks for the post
So far, 3 months after the initial post saying Smith is issuing again, in the most populous county in NorCal, only 1 CGNer, JonMorganHill is applying??? That is especially absurd given that you don't pay ANYTHING unless your GC is approved.

JMH, after your CCW gets issued or your GC denied, be sure to post to let us know and give us a rough idea of your GC, but not so much info as to ID yourself (or PM me, all kept in strict confidence).

I would think there are TONS of RE agents, jewelers, Au/Ag dealers, FFLs/C&Rs, small business owners and landlords/property managers who make cash deposits that could be issued even under light or dark red.

We'll never know what Smith's current standard is like until CGNers apply and post their results. Gore changed from hardcore anti to strongly pro. Smith could change too.
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  #822  
Old 04-26-2019, 2:44 PM
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I left message with CCW deputy Monday. No answer. Will see Sheriff this Thursday (Best of the West). I'll bring it up to her then.
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  #823  
Old 04-26-2019, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
I left message with CCW deputy Monday. No answer. Will see Sheriff this Thursday (Best of the West). I'll bring it up to her then.
Thanks for your efforts on Santa Clara Co CGNers behalf, I'm sure they appreciate it! (I do and I don't even live in SC Co....)

If you can, could you try to get an idea of her current GC policy? See post #813 above. If phrased right, it should only take 2-3 minutes of her time to find out how restrictive it is. We want everyone to apply who has a solid chance of getting issued, but we don't want to waste either CGNers' or the SO's time, money and effort on apps that don't have a chance.
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  #824  
Old 04-26-2019, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
So far, 3 months after the initial post saying Smith is issuing again, in the most populous county in NorCal, only 1 CGNer, JonMorganHill is applying??? That is especially absurd given that you don't pay ANYTHING unless your GC is approved.

JMH, after your CCW gets issued or your GC denied, be sure to post to let us know and give us a rough idea of your GC, but not so much info as to ID yourself (or PM me, all kept in strict confidence).

I would think there are TONS of RE agents, jewelers, Au/Ag dealers, FFLs/C&Rs, small business owners and landlords/property managers who make cash deposits that could be issued even under light or dark red.

We'll never know what Smith's current standard is like until CGNers apply and post their results. Gore changed from hardcore anti to strongly pro. Smith could change too.

I'll be sure to update when I hear anything, either way. I'd say I'm hopeful, but not confident.
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  #825  
Old 04-26-2019, 9:01 PM
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Interesting old article about Sheriff Smith and her CCW policy & practice back in 2011 when Socca was suing her. Just adding it here as a reference.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2011/12/...d-gun-permits/
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  #826  
Old 04-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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Thumbs up San Diego Co Sheriff's "Good Cause" policy

If Sheriff Smith is looking for a good Good Cause policy, she should look over the one San Diego Sheriff Gore has on his website.

Quote:
Good cause is determined on an individual basis. Applicants for a CCW should be able to set forth a set of circumstances that distinguishes the applicant from other members of the general public and causes him or her to be placed in harms way. Simply writing "self defense" or "personal protection" on an application does not provide the requisite proof of good cause. However, the following criteria, upon proof, may establish good cause:

* Evidence that there has been or is likely to be an attempt on the part of a second party to do great bodily harm to the applicant.
* The nature of the business or occupation of the applicant is such that it is subject to personal risk and / or criminal attack, greater than the general population.
* A task of the business or occupation of the applicant requires transportation of large sums of money or other valuables and alternative protective measures or security cannot be employed.
* When a business or occupation is of a high-risk nature and requires the applicant's presence in a dangerous environment.
* The occupation or business of the applicant is such that no means of protection, security or risk avoidance can mitigate the risk other than the carrying of a concealed firearm.
* Personal protection is warranted to mitigate a threat to the applicant that the applicant is able to substantiate.
* Good cause could include, but is not limited to, verifiable documented instances of threats to the personal safety of the applicant, his or her family, or employees. Threats to personal safety may be verbal or demonstrated through actual harm committed in the place of work, neighborhood or regular routes of travel for business. The applicant should articulate the threat as it applies personally to the applicant, his or her family, or employees. Non-specific, general concerns about personal safety are insufficient.


It is the goal of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department that those persons who present proof of good cause, and meet all other qualifications, be issued a CCW if they so request. The Sheriff's Department recognizes that individuals may also face threats to their safety by virtue of their profession, business or status and by virtue of their ability to readily access materials that if forcibly taken would be a danger to society. These threats should be articulated by the applicant and clearly identify his/her unique circumstances.

Note: The above examples are not intended to be all-inclusive they are provided merely for your reference. Also, state and local laws do not prohibit an adult from having a concealed firearm in their home or place of business.
From: https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html
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  #827  
Old 04-27-2019, 1:09 PM
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In case there's anyone who lives in Santa Clara Co (I don't) who wants to do something they can do from home to promote Santa Clara Co SO CCWs, just look at what these SoCal folk are doing on Facebook and do similar, for either the entire county and/or major Santa Clara Co cities:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1507548

Here's my thread on Santa Clara Co city PDs and their policies re. issuing CCWs: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1473741

Plus, you can't get ready too early for the next sheriff's election. It's only 3 years away (2022 June) and the candidates have to file ~2.5 years away (2022 Feb, IIRC) and if, rather than being passive, you want to be active in identifying and encouraging a pro-CCW candidate to run, that knocks off another half year and if you want to undermine the incumbent's support to weaken them, that pushes it back to summer 2021 -- just 2 years away. Not much time to build up an organization large enough to swing a sheriff's election.

To see what it took San Diego Co Gun Owners to get Gore to change his Good Cause policy and start readily issuing CCWs, see: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1473169
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Old 05-03-2019, 9:25 PM
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I left message with CCW deputy Monday. No answer. Will see Sheriff this Thursday (Best of the West). I'll bring it up to her then.
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Old 05-03-2019, 9:36 PM
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Give him space, Paladin. Hes doing the 2A community a favor. Im sure hell report back when hes good and ready.
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Old 05-04-2019, 7:03 AM
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Give him space, Paladin. He’s doing the 2A community a favor. I’m sure he’ll report back when he’s good and ready.
Don't worry, I doubt seeing that smilie "triggered" him and sent him scurrying to a "safe space" like the precious "snowflakes" of today.

He said he "moved back" to Santa Clara in '83 and has known Smith for >35 years. Back when he was growing up, if a boy was described as "sensitive" it was considered an insult, not a compliment.

And his parents' generation?

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Old 05-25-2019, 7:00 AM
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Well, as of 5/20, I'm past my 90 day period with no response. I'll be calling next week after the holiday to try and get an status update on my application.
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Old 05-25-2019, 5:16 PM
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Old 06-04-2019, 5:58 PM
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Minor update. Sheriff is handling removal of Department of Corrections supervisor, Amy Lee. She's busy. I spoke to one of the deputies handling CCW's today. Asked him what do you consider good cause? Got a standard political answer. Generic defense of self or family won't cut it. He said you need a more specific reason.

I'm not going into the silliness of that response. I'm still working on this.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:04 AM
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Minor update. Sheriff is handling removal of Department of Corrections supervisor, Amy Lee. She's busy. I spoke to one of the deputies handling CCW's today. Asked him what do you consider good cause? Got a standard political answer. Generic defense of self or family won't cut it. He said you need a more specific reason.

I'm not going into the silliness of that response. I'm still working on this.
No surprise there, all that means is that SC Co isn't in the "dark half" of dark green (SD = GC). Since you say she's claimed to have restarted issuing CCWs, that means SC Co also isn't in the "dark half" of dark red ("No Issue"). So, other than both extremes, we still don't know where they are.

Q: Does Sheriff Smith claim to have liberalized her GC standard since she's restarted (or at least claimed to have restarted) issuing CCWs again?

FWIW still no change that I noticed at: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/sheriff/Pages/ccw.aspx
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Old 06-06-2019, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy View Post
Minor update. Sheriff is handling removal of Department of Corrections supervisor, Amy Lee. She's busy. I spoke to one of the deputies handling CCW's today. Asked him what do you consider good cause? Got a standard political answer. Generic defense of self or family won't cut it. He said you need a more specific reason.

I'm not going into the silliness of that response. I'm still working on this.
Thank you very much for taking the time to get involved in this and give us some much needed answers and information. There has been little, if any, communication from the SO to the general public about the specifics of the CCW policy. Many of us here aren't so focused on complaining about Laurie, as we are on just getting some answers to basic questions and maybe some solutions or progress. So thanks again and keep up the good work.
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